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Great - now what???


Debra
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[quote user="NormanH"]The leaders of both Remain and Brexit seem to have been totally irresponsible in not having a clear plan in case Brexit won, and in both cases leaving the mess they created for others to clear up.

[/quote]

Here is a Brexit tome you can mull over if you haven't already done so.

regards

cajal

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[quote user="lindal1000"]Just managed to transfer enough money out of UK to buy an investment property here..got a deal at 1.19 just before it dropped! Wish I'd done it 6 months ago!

[/quote]

Swings and roundabouts.

If TF1 news is anything to go by the price of houses in the Dordogne have plumeted since last Thursday. You might actually be better off even with a weak exchange rate.

Anyway, one benefit of Brexit is that Eymet might actually become French again.
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[quote user="NormanH"]"S&P have just the downgraded the EU credit rating"...and the UK's was downgraded earlier...

Where is the gain?

[/quote]

For the likes of me & thee Zilch, Nixxy, Nada. For the CRA's there's everything to play for.

From back in 2013

In

April, Moody's and Standard & Poor's settled the lawsuits for a

reported $225 million. Brought by a diverse group of institutional

plaintiffs with King County, Washington, and the Abu Dhabi Commercial

Bank taking the lead, the suits accused the ratings agencies of

conspiring in the mid-to-late 2000s with Morgan Stanley to fraudulently

induce heavy investment into a pair of doomed-to-implode subprime-laden

deals, called Cheyne and Rhinebridge.

regards

cajal

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[quote user="Debra"]Are they really going to do it?

So many questions and trying to remember the advice not to panic.

[/quote]

Don't panic Debra, please, but try to bear in mind as many of the factors as you can - I can't.

Just had this interesting piece forwarded to me :

As usual, there is always more than one view on any issue. Received this in an email & obviously have no idea of its bona fides; but interesting ...

If this is true, or even just perceived so by the majority of voters, one can easily comprehend why Brexit actually happened

---Quote---

BREXIT

Ladies & gents: read this, so you understand why the UK had no other choice but to leave the EU.

Maybe it will enlighten you. The EU was killing the UK .... they barely got out of this Internationalist Cabal in time.

Upon funding through enticing EU grants/loans :

* Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011.

* Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013.

* Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.

* Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia.

* British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN rather than Wales, using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant.

* Dyson gone to Malaysia.

* Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METALBOX), gone to Poland, once employed 1,200.

* M&S manufacturing gone to far east.

* Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with all the patents.

* Gillette gone to eastern Europe.

* Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany.

* Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone.

* Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands.

* Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy.

* ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs

* Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina, who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year.

* JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

* UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

* Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

* Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

* The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

* Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

* 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.

* The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria.

* Cameron's campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

* The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK.

* Raleigh UK are probably going to move to the Netherlands too, as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK.

Name me just one major technology company still running in the UK. Now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians in the UK any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.

If you think the EU is a good idea, you most probably:

1) haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.

2) haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy interfering in and tearing your business down.

3) don't think it really matters.

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[quote user="lindal1000"]Just managed to transfer enough money out of UK to buy an investment property here..got a deal at 1.19 just before it dropped! Wish I'd done it 6 months ago! I'm sure the UK will eventually recover but I'll probably be dead by then.[/quote]

 

Good on you Lindal for taking positive action, it also increases your commitment to France not that it was ever lacking, I could still just about do the same myself and if my shares continue to tank and the pound drops even more it will give me the kick up the backside that maybe I need.

 

If I do so and then the £ rebounds etc I wont be looking back and saying maybe I should have waited and I hope you will be of the same mindset if that happens, as ALBF says its swings and roundabouts, we know someone else who with the benefit of hindsight transferred money the lowest rate but nothing but positives came from that.

 

Doing something and looking forward has always got to be better than doing nothing.

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Sorry can't quote but in reply to ALBOF Eymet has no desire to become French and most people I know will apply for nationality..so I suppose in that way it will become French! Thanks for the tip on property prices. I'm going to look at one this weekend so I must make sure I make a low offer!
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Oh dear Ernie - you're living dangerously now.

I tried to give out similar facts - got accused of being a rascist - and of taking my facts from Facebook.

I couldn't be bothered to reply - had I done so -

I would have said that the facts - very similar to yours - were taken from a Telegraph article.

Also taken from eu statistics - but some people think if such an article is posted on Facebook - then that's where its been picked up - and it's all lies simply because it's on Facebook - weird and childish.

But all those incidents did happen.

You will not convince the losers, the little snowflakes, the anglo-phobic cult believers.  Still in a state of shock because the people have spoken.  

Interesting  article in the Guardian today as well;  looking at Swindon, the home of F1 engineering, and other high-tech firms, as well as Nationwide - and why the majority voted Brexit.   Not at all the 'uneducated blah blah rubbish insults' - but intelligent, educated, professional people - rather gives the lie to the usual losers comments about Brexit voters.   Do please read.

I'd better go now - or I shall be called something or other nasty and abusive again.

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The events happened but EU grants were not involved and the EU were not instrumental in the decision. In fact none of the companies concerned were British owned anyway, having all been bought out by multinationals long before they moved. Anyway, as I said it's pretty irrelevant now since the damage has been done.

Unlike the government businesses and individuals had plans. So come on intelligent Brexit voters..give me your plan for where we go now? It's clear there will be no negotiations before article 50 is declared but once declared there is no going back. How do you see it panning out?
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[quote user="lindal1000"]It's not true Ernie.. but actually it doesn't really matter now because we are way past how people might vote. Just have to find a way to stop the UK economy from going into free fall[/quote]

"It's not true" What on earth can you mean ? That is a rhetorical question, BTW. No need to reply, please.

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[quote user="chessie"]Oh dear Ernie - you're living dangerously now.

I tried to give out similar facts - got accused of being a rascist - and of taking my facts from Facebook.

I couldn't be bothered to reply - had I done so -

I would have said that the facts - very similar to yours - were taken from a Telegraph article.

Also taken from eu statistics - but some people think if such an article is posted on Facebook - then that's where its been picked up - and it's all lies simply because it's on Facebook - weird and childish.

But all those incidents did happen.

You will not convince the losers, the little snowflakes, the anglo-phobic cult believers.  Still in a state of shock because the people have spoken.  

Interesting  article in the Guardian today as well;  looking at Swindon, the home of F1 engineering, and other high-tech firms, as well as Nationwide - and why the majority voted Brexit.   Not at all the 'uneducated blah blah rubbish insults' - but intelligent, educated, professional people - rather gives the lie to the usual losers comments about Brexit voters.   Do please read.

I'd better go now - or I shall be called something or other nasty and abusive again.

[/quote]

Correct chessie, the woebegone, reflex cry of “Racist !” means “How dare you confuse me with facts, you honest person you, you … you …”

Why is there so much confusion right now ? It is everywhere and does none of us good. Let’s have a little “think” about facts, about objective truth, shall we ?

No specious argument can hold up against a fact (contra factum non fit argumentum). Ever.

It seems a great majority of people prefer to believe the comfortable lie rather than the uncomfortable truth, ie - the simple explanation - even if it’s false instead of complicated reality.

Add to that there is a certain framework, a boundary, a distinction between a truth and a lie, which must neither be overstepped nor manipulated. Briefly : if the sun is yellow and TV News says it is green, no one will believe the TV News. But, if TV News says the Sun is orange, possibly even red, that is within the realm of the possible for the man-in-the-street newspaper reader, like me.

That is the tricky thing about manipulation. In fact, anyone can see that the sun is orange, and … also red … at sunset.

But when we say that the sun is yellow, we mean the colour of the sun as it appears to us in daytime, when the sun is shining is yellow. The Sun is a daytime thing. So, when the “Preachers” say it is orange and red, we know they are also right and we know we cannot say they are absolutely wrong. Solution : keep a safe distance from the truth manipulators. (Danke Frau Seitz).

Voltaire warns : “If you want to know who is ruling you, you must only discover whom you may not criticize.”

Eric Blair (George Orwell) said : "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

Ernie says Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

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[quote user="lindal1000"]If you had read my above post you will see that I did briefly explain..and I'm still waiting for your suggestions as to what the next step is.

Every need to reply please.[/quote]

Firstly – You make yet another assumption, I did read what you wrote, it gave me yet another good laugh. I repeat, making assumptions is never a brilliant idea and is often offensive.

Secondly - "Every need to reply please" - What claptrap. There is absolutely no need to reply, above all, to ungrammatical, difficult to understand comments. Who the heck are you to tell me what to do ? Off your pedestal Madam, please. I reply merely to point out you defo did not explain, you just wasted bandwidth.

Thirdly and finally - If you actually think anyone intelligent (apart from your good self) is interested in my notional suggestions of how to solve the "crisis", I am staggered. You actually believe thereby I have all the facts ? Look, I have been at pains to point out the need for facts before proposing or deciding anything. I do not know, but I do have strong principles about the whole EU mess, based on verifiable facts and personal experience. An opinion unsupported by facts is worthless., another waste of bandwidth

In any case, when the going gets personal, I get going, so, having had enough, I’m outa here.

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Here's someone - an EU lover, granted, but then a few of us are accused of that - who bothered to fact-check...

http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu-does-not-fund-companies-to-move-jobs-out-of-the-uk/

Yours,

Little snowflake
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YCCMB wrote

Here's someone - an EU lover, granted, but then a few of us are accused of that - who bothered to fact-check...

http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu-does-not-fund-companies-to-move-jobs-out-of-the-uk/

Yours,

Little snowflake

Unquote

So there you have it Earnie, Chessie and others. No suggestion of racism, no questioning your intelligence, not even a mention of your ability to write without mistakes.

Pure and simple you have been scammed - and it seems by a so called newspaper at that.

The irony is of course, that having helped to persuade electors to vote for an exit, the situation that they reported which was not true because EU rules forbid grants being offered to entice business from one EU country to another, will after the exit become not only possible but indeed highly likely.

I am sure Eastern Europe would enjoy some of the Nissan/Toyota/Honda cake.

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Thank you Andy for those sensible remarks.

Can I appeal to everyone to remember that we have had the referendum, we know the result and we will all have to live with the consequences whether they be good or bad.

There is no need for personal abuse of anyone regardless of their opinions about the EU. Personally I did find some remarks to be on the verge of being racist but I do not think they were meant in a racist way so I decided to ignore them.

So please let the discussion continue in an adult way. I know we are capable of that

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There are many reasons for why some of us voted the way we did;  for some of us the reasons go back over quite long years, the lies from Heath, and his admission years later, being one of them.

My decision was in no way swayed by any publicity, any comments, any biased reports, over the last few months.   My views, and talking to many other people I know, were decided long before the appalling slanging match of the Referendum.

There are some interesting articles in Der Spiegel in the last day or two (I'm sorry I can't put links - this PC seems not to work that way and I can't do 'copy 'n paste' so I apologise);  some thoughtful journalists who seem to now accept that the eu, in its present, form is maybe not what a lot of europeans want.   One or two journos do seem to accept that because of the UK's entirely different history, free from Catholicism and Napoleon and any of the others - that due to those facts, the UK has a different law system and a different outlook.

It is those differences, and the mis-understandings from the europeans, that have led to where we are now.

I like europe, and the european citizens, I like the differences;  what is now being questioned is the loss of control of our own law-making - and that is also being questioned right throughout europe.

The euro has been a disaster for Greece, and Spain.  Any of you read any of the on-the-street articles about the way of life of ordinary Greek citizens - it is heart-breaking.   This has been caused by the eu elites - and is shameful that it is happening in a european country - one of 'ours'.

There is a great deal wrong with the eu as it is now set-up - a great deal wrong.  Had it remained at the 6 or 7 countries, with 'association' for other countries - it might have worked.   It was the whole 'rush to power and expansion' in too short a time, that has caused problems for all european citizens.

I do feel sorry that we are in this mess;  but the eu couldn't be allowed to continue in its present form which is causing problems right throughout europe and for european citizens.  It is wrong that the elites seem not to understand their own citizens.   It is sad - but probably necessary.

Wish I knew what the history books will write about this in 100 years time.

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Any bets on which FTSE 100 company will be the first to leave the UK, how many jobs will be lost and how many companies and jobs France will pick up?

Chessie, you are right about one thing - the rules of the EU for six or seven are not appropriate for the present number of countries.

But, instead of being so insular, the British should now be holding out an alternative model which other Europeans might to follow.
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This morning there was a very emotional ceremony in northern France in remembrance of all those that unselfishly gave their lives 100 years ago at the battle of the Somme. On the first day nearly 58,000 allied soldiers had been killed or wounded and by the time it had finish nearly 800,000 British and allied soldiers were killed or wounded and nearly 540,000 Germans.

 

Not that long after we had another war where million more soldiers, airmen and sailors on both sides lost their lives.

 

Today at the commemorations at the Somme we saw people from both sides honouring the dead. Who would have thought that possible 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

 

There was a great Englishman who often referred to himself as the “Former Naval Person” to his closest allies who saw firsthand both these wars. After the second war he wrote a detailed history of it spread across six volumes. In his last two volumes (Closing the Ring – Triumph and Tragedy) he put his case for “The United Nations of Europe”. What he foresaw was a trading, political and cultural binding of all European countries to a point where it would never be possible for one to go to war with another ever again. Sadly Stalin and Roosevelt did not agree and it initially did not happen.

 

He also had another idea having visited again firsthand the killing camps in Europe of a way to protect people’s basic human rights. This would have been done not just through a United Nations of Europe but by a legal system, a court. He was the instigator in 1948 of the creation of the ECHR whose constitution was written by English lawyers which he endorsed. The man of course was Winston Churchill.

 

The reason I mention this is because today we saw Europe come together in respect to all those that died at the Somme. We see a United Nations of Europe in the form of the EU and of course we have the ECHR all of which contrary to some in newspapers who say he would be tuning in his grave he would probably be wondering how stupid we are to give all this up.

 

One day the EU will be a federalised country in its own right. It will have an elected government and president but we have to be realistic. Look at other successful federalised states like Australia, Germany, Belgium, and Switzerland etc. They still have not got it perfect and they have been around for 100’s of years whilst the EU is simply a baby at present.

 

Then there is the Euro, one of top trading currencies in the world and up there with the strongest of them. Will it fail, of course not; it won’t be allowed to fail now because it is simply too big and too important. Failure of the Euro would result in a worldwide financial meltdown, a financial Armageddon. The USD is another dominant currency and it took around 224 years to get there yet the Euro has been around for only 14 years so actually it has done incredibly well to get to where it is today.

 

So obviously I think to leave the EU is a grave mistake. To leave the ECHR (which May has proposed) is an even bigger mistake. It is easy to talk about failures, we always remember them but we conveniently forget the better things these two have bought us.

 

The British people have spoken and rightly or wrongly we are about to leave. Nobody has done this before, we are in uncharted waters. Nobody can predict how it will go although we are getting some idea at the moment. Scaremongering is starting to become fact. We now more than ever need a strong leader, somebody who can put their own personal thoughts behind them to do the best for the people of both sides. He/she  can be from either side, they can be from either sex, any religion, any colour but the prerequisite must be that they can negotiate and put us first.

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