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Britain's downgrade by S&P today was historic - the first time

the ratings agency has ever cut a AAA sovereign rating by two notches.

[URL=http://s253.photobucket.com/user/bfb_album/media/6a00d8341bf8f353ef017eeacb1b2e970d_zpsysx4fugj.jpg.html][IMG]http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80/bfb_album/6a00d8341bf8f353ef017eeacb1b2e970d_zpsysx4fugj.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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By campaigning for Exit it raised their profiles and the arguments extremely dubious - £350,000,000 per day to the NHS being one.....pure cr*p as some of the money comes back for infrastructure support, CAP etc.

Bozo keeping a low profile - I presume that his worst nightmare has come true as his thoughts of informal talks have been scuppered and he could become PM and following formal talks have to admit 'I screwed up'.

Virtualy all the interviews with those saying they were voting leave quoted 'immigrants' - wonder if they were from the EU or elsewhere.
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I paraphrase an article I read earlier today; wish I'd kept it:

I wonder why the Leave team are now not wanting to go full steam ahead on leaving the EU; oh yes, they've been out-manoeuvred by Mr Cameron.

If Doris runs for leadership of the party and fails to trigger Article 50, then he's finished. If he does not run to be Prime Minister, then he's finished. If he runs, wins and takes the UK out of the EU, then the UK won't exist. Scotland will break away, there'll be huge problems in Ireland, a recession, broken trade agreements. Then Doris will be finished, and he knows it. Johnson knows all of this.

The Leave leaders have ended up with a result that's no use to them. The leadership of the Tory party as things stand now isn't the opportunity they were planning.

Interesting that the Leave campaign has removed all mention on their website of their promises made before the referendum.
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GG think it is a case of Cameron saying 'I do not want a poison chalice'.

Presumably, Bozo, IDS and Gove are wondering how they can get out of standing for PM so as to get out of triggering Article 50 and then negotiating with the 27 EU nations.

As an MP ally of Merkel has said the UK will have to pay for access to the single market and based on what Norway pays per capita the UK will pay the same as now. Result, same payments, access be inhabitants of EU countries to the UK but no say in how the EU is run.
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No different to ALL political party 'promises' and 'manifesto commitments' then.   Remember student fees - LimpyDumbos that one wasn't it ?  Blairs' promise that any 'constitutional changes to the UK would go to a Referendum'; how come the Lisbon Treaty didn't go to a Referendum.

They are ALL crooks, l---rs - and I don't believe much of what they say.   But at least in the UK if they really tell huge stonking 'lies' to us - we can kick them out.   As the LibDems know to their cost.   As Churchill said - 'Democracy isn't perfect - until you look at the alternatives'.

McMillan had it right 'Circumstances, dear boy - circumstances'.

With all the polls running the way they were, I think the 'Leave' side have been caught on the back-foot;  looking at BJ, Mr G and Mr F the morning after there did seem to be a bit of 'crumbs - now we've done it...' look about them.

I doubt also that anyone really thought that the european 'elites', whom we've bailed out through the ecb, and the imf would really turn and kick over the cash machine quite so nastily.    It appears that the 'elites' Merkel included are panicked, they really want to punish the UK for having had the courage to say 'The eu has gone wrong, it is a disaster, we're divorcing' - and losers always turn nasty, don't they ?

As for Scotland - I didn't realise that they hated the English so much;  it was Scotland that ran out of money and wanted the 'Union' - at least that what's my history books told me.   But the eu don't seem to have been very welcoming to the Scots either.  

I do wish they'd all take a few days off, time to recoup and think - and that goes for the eu lot as well - wish they'd all take a deep breath before sounding off and saying things that they will or should regret in future.   Rather telling that the first meeting of the 'elites' after the UK referendum was with the 6 - note that just the 6 - financial eu bods;  aren't there other countries involved in the eu as well ?

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I think if somebody doesn't get off their backside pretty quickly and grab the rudder HMS UK we might find that the EU invokes Article 7 of the Lisbon Treaty for which they only need two thirds to agree and the UK might find it's self thrown out.

 

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-european-union-and-comments/title-1-common-provisions/7-article-7.html

 

That would do far more damage than the referendum.

 

So it seems that there will be no "post nuptial" agreement pre Article 50 and no trade treaty negotiations till after we have left.

 

I think there is a second referendum on the way. The question will be do we leave with nothing or do we stay with something. Even Boris is looking worried. I do have one question, why is it we have not introduced a points system for immigration from outside the EU in the past?

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Cathar Tours said : I think if somebody doesn't get off their backside

pretty quickly and grab the rudder HMS UK we might find that the EU

invokes Article 7 of the Lisbon Treaty for which they only need two

thirds to agree and the UK might find it's self thrown out.

Reference invoking Article 7 : Such an action by the EU is a possibility

unless, perhaps, a general election is called before Article 50 is

launched, which might just delay/affect matters.

Cathar Tours said :

I do have one question, why is it we have not introduced a points system for immigration from outside the EU in the past?

Perhaps T. Blair could answer a few questions ref: immigration decisions taken in 2004 : http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18539472

Sue

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[quote user="chessie"]No different to ALL political party 'promises' and 'manifesto commitments' then.   Remember student fees - LimpyDumbos that one wasn't it ?  Blairs' promise that any 'constitutional changes to the UK would go to a Referendum'; how come the Lisbon Treaty didn't go to a Referendum.

They are ALL crooks, l---rs - and I don't believe much of what they say.   But at least in the UK if they really tell huge stonking 'lies' to us - we can kick them out.   As the LibDems know to their cost.   As Churchill said - 'Democracy isn't perfect - until you look at the alternatives'.

McMillan had it right 'Circumstances, dear boy - circumstances'.

With all the polls running the way they were, I think the 'Leave' side have been caught on the back-foot;  looking at BJ, Mr G and Mr F the morning after there did seem to be a bit of 'crumbs - now we've done it...' look about them.

I doubt also that anyone really thought that the european 'elites', whom we've bailed out through the ecb, and the imf would really turn and kick over the cash machine quite so nastily.    It appears that the 'elites' Merkel included are panicked, they really want to punish the UK for having had the courage to say 'The eu has gone wrong, it is a disaster, we're divorcing' - and losers always turn nasty, don't they ?

As for Scotland - I didn't realise that they hated the English so much;  it was Scotland that ran out of money and wanted the 'Union' - at least that what's my history books told me.   But the eu don't seem to have been very welcoming to the Scots either.  

I do wish they'd all take a few days off, time to recoup and think - and that goes for the eu lot as well - wish they'd all take a deep breath before sounding off and saying things that they will or should regret in future.   Rather telling that the first meeting of the 'elites' after the UK referendum was with the 6 - note that just the 6 - financial eu bods;  aren't there other countries involved in the eu as well ?

[/quote]

Some good stuff there chessie. Thanks, now I'm off to the Land of Nod.
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Just so you know, and it's not the first time I've mentioned it on here, the U.K. has had a points-based immigration system in place for non-EU nationals SINCE 2008.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points-based_immigration_system_(United_Kingdom)

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[quote user="Racist chessie"]No different to ALL political party 'promises' and 'manifesto commitments' then.   Remember student fees - LimpyDumbos that one wasn't it ?  Blairs' promise that any 'constitutional changes to the UK would go to a Referendum'; how come the Lisbon Treaty didn't go to a Referendum.

They are ALL crooks, l---rs - and I don't believe much of what they say.   But at least in the UK if they really tell huge stonking 'lies' to us - we can kick them out.   As the LibDems know to their cost.   As Churchill said - 'Democracy isn't perfect - until you look at the alternatives'.

McMillan had it right 'Circumstances, dear boy - circumstances'.

With all the polls running the way they were, I think the 'Leave' side have been caught on the back-foot;  looking at BJ, Mr G and Mr F the morning after there did seem to be a bit of 'crumbs - now we've done it...' look about them.

I doubt also that anyone really thought that the european 'elites', whom we've bailed out through the ecb, and the imf would really turn and kick over the cash machine quite so nastily.    It appears that the 'elites' Merkel included are panicked, they really want to punish the UK for having had the courage to say 'The eu has gone wrong, it is a disaster, we're divorcing' - and losers always turn nasty, don't they ?

As for Scotland - I didn't realise that they hated the English so much;  it was Scotland that ran out of money and wanted the 'Union' - at least that what's my history books told me.   But the eu don't seem to have been very welcoming to the Scots either.  

I do wish they'd all take a few days off, time to recoup and think - and that goes for the eu lot as well - wish they'd all take a deep breath before sounding off and saying things that they will or should regret in future.   Rather telling that the first meeting of the 'elites' after the UK referendum was with the 6 - note that just the 6 - financial eu bods;  aren't there other countries involved in the eu as well ?


[/quote]

 

You still here? I though racism was not allowed on this forum. Looks to me like your just trying to wind people up and then whinge when people bite back.

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[quote user="chessie"]As for Scotland - I didn't realise that they hated the English so much;  it was Scotland that ran out of money and wanted the 'Union' - at least that what's my history books told me.   But the eu don't seem to have been very welcoming to the Scots either.  



[/quote]

The Scots in general don't hate the English, We actually like the majority of English people. There are idiots in both countries who most people would not like to be associated with. Just look at the people who daubed the Polish centre in Hammersmith with racist slogans. I am sure that the vast majority of "Leave" voters would condemn that sort of loutish behaviour. Last week I was visiting my old village in central Scotland which now has a lot of english incomers who have moved up north for various reasons. They take a full part in village life and a little ironically some of them are leading lights in the local branch of the SNP.

As one said to me, "I like it up here. The people are so friendly. It reminds me of England forty years ago".

I would agree that some of us do not always share the English view of themselves especially when they start calling everything english "the best in the world" but then we all have our faults both as individuals and as nations.

As regards to the Treaty of Union as it is known north of the border - Act of Union in England it seems your history book gave a somewhat simplified summary. In order to get the Scots to sign up to the deal after the collapse of the Darien Scheme the English government spent a lot of money persuading Scottish MPs to vote for the Union. In the words of Burns' poem "Bought and sold for English gold - Such a parcel of rogues in a nation". IMO this was the best result for both countries as I am a believer in "stronger together". I also believe that this applies to larger unions as well

 

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