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Has Brexit ruined our chances of a new life in France?


Normandie Caroline
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Well, what would you do? Are you about to buy a house in France or move to France to live?

Has Brexit ruined the chances for everyone who is about to sign on the dotted line, or pack their suitcases and head for a new life in France?

I'm just about to buy a house with the intention of moving permanently to Normandie. It has been my dream for years and just about to become reality. Apart from extreme shock and sadness at the EU referendum result, I now don't know if I'd be completely mad to continue on this path, because there are no longer certainties about rights to live and work in France.

So, please tell me what you would do, and what your advice would be. Thank you!

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Caroline

There is nothing stopping you making a purchase of a property in France. People did it before the UK joined the EEC. People from countries not in the EU do it now.

There may be restrictions however - and until details are decided no one can say what these may be.

Potential issues may be (depending on your circumstances)

1. You may not be allowed to work and may need a visa to come to France permanently. This may also apply to those of us who are already here.

2. Your future rights to health care will be uncertain until arrangements are concluded. This is already complicated and depends on whether you are working, pre-retired, retired from the UK or retired from another state (EU or non-EU). No one can today say how this will pan out but the worst case based on the least advantageous of the above situations is that you would have to cover your own costs or get insurance for at least 5 years.

Remember however. The UK remains in the EU for 2 years - and possibly more. If you move now, you can establish rights that might (and I have to stress might) be continued into the future and these rights may not be available after the actual exit.

There are lots of ifs and buts in this, but if you have already done your homework and if your heart is truly set, then I would say, do it and do it as quickly as is sensibly possible.
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After 11 years in France I can advise you that there are no certainties, there never have been except that you can be certain that todays situation which you have based your plans on will no longer be the case in short order.

The only difference is that this time it was not France moving the goalposts but démocratie removing the playing field.

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I'd say think very very carefully. As someone rightly said hindsight is a wonderful thing. I love living here and hope that I never have to return to the UK but with hindsight I think I may have decided to stay put in the UK. What you know you can deal with but the unknown.............

Mrs KG
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Thank you Andy for your thoughtful advice.

So many people in the UK are furious at the EU referendum outcome, especially as it's coming to light that huge numbers of the leave voters are now saying that they didn't realise what 'leave' actually meant.  They're saying they thought it was a protest vote against the 'establishment' and the UK government and that Britain wouldn't actually have to leave the EU.

So, did they think they could cast their sneering votes and then say "only joking!" and the country wouldn't be about to be cast adrift after all?

Here's a link to the online government petition calling for a second EU referendum. It's already at over 2.5million signatures and the map shows how many people are signing in each constituency. The petition is being signed by people across the country. Surely the government cannot ignore this and will have to revisit the issue with  a more considered referendum?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Please feel free to share the link with friends and family.

We want the people of France to know that this referendum and outcome has not happened in our name. We don't want to leave the EU. The majority of young people don't want to leave the EU. Demograohically it's the 65+ age group who have had such a dramatic influence on the leave vote. Families are divided with many grandparents glibly saying that their grandchildren won't speak to them. Parents going against their grown up children's wishes and voting to leave. They either don't know the long term damage they are inflicting on the younger gerenations and wiping out their life chances and ability to live and work freely in so many countries, or, they don't care. My own mother also voted to leave even though her only daughter is about to embark on a new life in France. I explained to her the reasons for remaining, how this is a vote for people who are 8, 18, 28, 38 etc, not 80 like her and stressed that this vote would be forever, not a 5 year parlimentary term. And, I pleaded, if she wasn't persuaded by any of those points, perhaps just vote to remain in order to support her daughter. Her friends were amazed at her determination to vote to leave and warned her that her daughter would never speak to her again. One of the things that this referendum has shone a very bright light on is how divided Britain is.

I'm taking your advice on board and I really appreciate it. Thanks

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Thank you Mrs KG. What's happened in France that has made you question whether it would have been better to stay in the UK? Have there been really unexpected things? I don't think living in France is going to be a piece of cake, but it would be helpful to know a bit more about how you've found it. Thanks

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So 2 million people are saying, I didnt really mean it, I didnt realise that voting to leave would mean us leaving [8-)]

I have had an employee tell me that after reflection he didnt really mean it when he said I could stick his job up my ar5e, I have had a girlfriend tell me that she didnt really mean it when she said she hated me and sleeping with my best friend was a mistake.

As my parents taught me many times.

You have made your bed, now you must lie in it.

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[quote user="Normandie Caroline"]Thank you Mrs KG. What's happened in France that has made you question whether it would have been better to stay in the UK? Have there been really unexpected things? I don't think living in France is going to be a piece of cake, but it would be helpful to know a bit more about how you've found it. Thanks

[/quote]

France is in a mess at the moment. Mass unemployment, strikes and riots everyday. A day does not go past when something does not get smashed up or somebody is on strike. Everyone is heavily taxed and are worried about their jobs, pensions and the future. FH has an approval rating of 11 %. That is before you factor in the disintegration of the EU. Remember, polls suggest that more than 60 % of the French want a referendum as well and it is a realistic possibility they will vote out given the economic situation.

It is more than likely that Marie Le Pen will get voted in next year as there is no realistic person to stand against her. She will call a referendum and make life very difficult.

France is not the Utopia you think it is and carving out a life here is extremely difficult even before Brexit. Unless you are well off I would not consider the idea.

I should imagine that expats who have lived here long term will be largely unaffected. Others will have to jump threw hoops to gain the right to live here.

If you buy a house outside a mainstream area (sorry YCCMB) i.e. not in a MAJOR town or city then you could lose all your money if you are forced to go back.

There you have it. Big decision.
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[quote user="Alan Zoff"]I think you will find that the petitioners are people who voted to Remain[/quote]Not sure this entirely the case. On the BBC news last night there were several people who had voted for Brexit who did so to send a message to the government about immigration but who never thought that Brexit would win. I know of some Brexit people who have signed this petition.

There does seem to be a desire of the EU to speed up the exit procedure so the break could come quicker than expected. I suspect that some Brexit voters are going to be disappointed when they see that the extra money promised to the NHS does not materialise
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You're right, everyone I've spoken too who tells me that they voted for Brexit, put their cross in the Leave box in order to kick the establishment. They didn't have a strong conviction that Brexit would, could or should happen. There are indeed people who voted to leave but have now signed the petition calling for a second EU referendum.

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[quote user="Normandie Caroline"]You're right, everyone I've spoken too who tells me that they voted for Brexit, put their cross in the Leave box in order to kick the establishment. They didn't have a strong conviction that Brexit would, could or should happen. There are indeed people who voted to leave but have now signed the petition calling for a second EU referendum.

[/quote]

Well, if morons wanted to treat a possible life changing referendum as a 'local by election', then tough breaks.

regards

cajal

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''And, possibly, the other 48% of the population who agree with that sentiment.''

A minor point but........it was c.48% of those who voted, not of the population. It also means that c.52% of those who voted wanted the UK to leave the EU. Therefore the majority voted for Brexit.

Democracy rules.

The approx 28% of the population who didn't / couldn't be bothered to / weren't able to vote don't count.
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Regardless of how many people sign the petition it is not going to be granted because that would require retrospective legislation which is rightly deplored. The turnout was high enough for the result to be valid. What might be a better idea would be a referendum  after we know the actual terms of the exit. There has been no clear plan on what the exit people want to do. In my experience the best way to get a good result in negotiations is to have a clear idea of what you want to achieve.

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A nice thought Rabbie but unfortunately this is not how the timetable will work.

Within 2 years of article 50 being declared the terms for the exit are agreed. This will (I hope but it is not explicitly written) decide what are the fates of those working on the other side of the new EU borders from those that they belong - working rights, living rights, access to healthcare etc..

However what will not be decided in that process is what will impact most greatly on the UK and the EU population is what will be the trading agreements. In 2 years time the UK will almost certainly exit the EU without any agreements on trading with EU countries and as far as I can see the only rules that could apply are WTO rules - even though the UK is not currently a member. So car imports to the EU for example will be subject to a 10% import tax.

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I think Caroline, that before you fall out with your mother over this

matter, you perhaps need to have pointed out some of the facts as to why she

voted the way she did.

 

When the UK voted to join the common market some 40 odd years ago, it was

as a trading area with countries which were more or less equal to the UK in

standards of living and outlook. It was never going to integrate further than

just trading partners, or so we were told at the time of the vote.

 

As every closer union within Europe started to take place, many raised

concerns about it. We were told if constitution change were every to happen then

we in the UK would be allowed a referendum on it.

 

Well as we all know change did happen, and the vote was put to the people

of Ireland who rejected it. So the EU reworded it and made the Irish vote again,

till they got the result the EU wanted. The same happened in France and the

Netherlands.

 

This was know as a treaty, the ever so nice Mr Blair, said it was not

constitution change and therefore a referendum was not needed.  This was a lie,

but he got away with it. He knew the British people would never have agreed to

it, so never gave us the chance to kick it out.

 

Then in 2005, the EU expanded and allowed the eastern former soviet

countries to join the club. The result was mass movement of people from these

poor areas into the UK, and they could now by the rights they had achieved by

joining the free movement area, have the ability to live in the UK.  Of course,

we from the UK could live in Poland, if we wanted. I wonder how many went?

 

The UK filled up with these migrants at an alarming rate, and the people of

the UK did not like it one bit. Mention immigration, and you were a racist, and

this has gone on and on and on. Plus they have tried to take the rights of the

UK to fully govern itself.

 

Finally at last, thanks to one man Nigel Farage, we managed to get a

referendum, and the people who were old enough to know how this all came about

voted to the leave the EU.

 

So, the person to blame for the present situation we all find ourselves in

is Mr Blair. Had he allowed us to vote back in the early part of this century,

then we would never have gone down this path in the first place, and could be in

a far better place then we are now.

 

Although this divorce will be painful for many, I would like to quote from

a solicitor, who when asked why divorces are so expensive, he replies, ‘because

they are worth it’  Had we have not been forced into this by the Blair

government, none of this would be happening now.

 

So please don't hate your mother for the way she voted, she was doing what

she thought and believed was best. However she had voted would not have changed

the result. 

 

Also take into account her generation lived through the war with Germany,

they and their parents died to protect us from German rule, we should never give

away this right to govern ourselves EVER.

 

Happily, there are still enough people in the UK who could see the past

and where the EU was taking us against our will, now this has been rectified. 

So move to France, enjoy your life, do the things you want to do, life is short, enjoy it while you

can.
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