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Brexit: dethroning the pompous


mint
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Irish humour can be so gentle, you might not even notice it.  But here is an article that I really enjoyed.

There is a famous line from George Bernard Shaw's "John Bull's Other Island" (that is to say, Ireland) which is worth quoting here:

"My way of joking is to tell the truth.  It's the funniest joke in the world."

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/21/brexit-ireland-dublin-britain[/url]

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Personally, Mint, I find it rather arrogant; placing Southern Ireland's demands etc above Britain's.

Let's remember, Eire, as it became to be called, achieved independence and separation from Britain way back in the 1920s and Eamon de Valera.

See here:

Also worth perhaps remembering, The Celtic Tiger (Southern Ireland's Economy) did exceptionally well - even being fined by the mighty idiot EU for being too successful! - until it allowed itself to believe property values could increase for ever at crazy inflated rates and allowing Irish and foreign bankers to screw everything up, as they tend to always do.

The Grauniad, is of course a hot bed of whingeing remainers and Leftys and becomes worse by the day.

Also perhaps worth remembering that as a result of the original treaty and subsequent agreements, Irish nationals have always enjoyed the right of abode and work in mainland UK.

Much to the disgust of the security services and the Special Branch of the Metropolitan Police, who agitated for, as a minimum, a register of Irish citizens living and working in Britain; in order to control IRA and Provo outrages and terrorism. This never happened.

I spent some time in Southern Ireland, back in the late 1970s and early 80s, working on a major consulting project and thoroughly enjoyed my time. and the whistlestop  tour of the republic my clients kindly gave me.

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[quote user="lindal1000"]

Would the EU allow Ireland to negotiate a special arrangement with a non EU country? Would Ireland want to?[/quote]

Agree Lindal.

They ought pragmatically to build on the extant base of multinational transglobal trading major corporations they have already enticed with intelligent tax incentives and leave well alone.

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[quote user="woolybanana"]Which banks will go where when the big pull out begins later this year and in 2017?[/quote]

Sabre Rattling again, Wooly; stoked by Anthony Browne, head of the BBA (British Bankers Association).

I well remember back in the days leading up to The Big Bang, an American international banking consultant friend and colleague calling me to impart a conversation he had just had with a senior Goldman Sachs executive he used to work with in Wall Street. They were discussing Goldman's plans. My chum was told, "We aim to gain control of the Brits bond markets; the rest is small potatoes and of no interest to us whatsoever."

Personally, I do not buy in whatsoever to the myths surrounding the City of London and how it is an essential wealth generator for Britain yadder yadder yadder etc.....

Many of the high earning traders are ex pats and pay no taxes in Britain.

Unfettered venal bankers have destroyed much of Britain. Not added to it.

Remember, I used to work there!

[6]

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[quote user="lindal1000"]Ireland has the fastest growing economy in Europe at the moment and is happily eyeing up the spoils it can grab from the City.

Would the EU allow Ireland to negotiate a special arrangement with a non EU country? Would Ireland want to?[/quote]

I do not think that Ireland would want to risk the Good Friday Peace settlement so I am sure Ireland would want to negotiate a way of keeping that going.

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Gluestick In the final analysis the Brexit vote was a narrow but decisive win for Brexit. We must all accept that and work towards getting the best possible result for the UK. It is not helpful when Brexiteers go on about Remoaners and other similar phrases. That attitude does not help to mend the rifts that exist. Since no clear post-Brexit strategy was mentioned during the campaign it would not be sensible to assume that all those who voted for Brexit wanted the same things. What I feel is reasonable is to assume that a Brexit vote was a vote for the UK to leave the political parts of the EU (Commission, Council of Ministers, European parliament, European Court) and to have more control of immigration. What is less clear given BoJo's claims that we could still have access to the single market is how much of a mandate there is for losing that access.

Much has been made of the fact there is a democratic vote in favour of Brexit but no-one would expect Conservative MPs to support every proposal of a Labour government on those grounds or vice versa.

I think it is now time for both sides to grow up and deal with this in an adult and sensible way

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[quote user="Rabbie"]Gluestick In the final analysis the Brexit vote was a narrow but decisive win for Brexit. We must all accept that and work towards getting the best possible result for the UK. It is not helpful when Brexiteers go on about Remoaners and other similar phrases.

[/quote]

Perhaps you might care, Rabbie, to espouse such views to the editors of the Guardian, Independent, BBC news, New Statesman et al?

[:D]

Personally, I was never a died in the wool "Brexiteer", but rather a pragmatist. Hoping that sanity might prevail, in Bruxelle, particularly; yet the idiot demanding all negotiations proceed in French - when it was established by common consent many years back that English was one of the official languages of the EEC/EU - is clearly not an adult.

However, I shall refrain from using such terms in future.

Edit: just checked: I actually wrote "Remainers", thus I cannot state, mea culpa, on this occasion.

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The idiot who wanted the exit negotiations carried out in French is Barnier who is heading the exit team for the EU; he is a died in the wool nasty, interested only in French interests and very anti-British since he blames the UK for stopping him becoming the big cheese in Brussels.

Personally, I think the British should simply refuse to deal with him at all, just to keep the pot boiling. A pragmatist, yes, but determined to beat the British and make sure that only France profits from our exit.

Gluey, as regards the banks, yes, I agree that the City has skewed out economy for a long time but what can we do but keep things as they are, given that out industrial base in not strong and we have neglected to rebuild as we might. For Bobo's sake, we even sell our best FOOTSIE technology companies to the Japanese and others.

And, the housing market has taken too big a slice out of the economic cake. Too many of the middle classes are property millionaires, riding the bubble of shortage and not seeking to invest in development.

UK needs to relearn how to design, develop, build and export stuff, as well as limiting imports where possible - eg food..

New technology companies are the future, but we should also be selling planes, trains and even drains to the rest of the world.

A start would be to cut fees for foreign students at UK Universities by half.
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The UK wishes to leave the club yet impose the conditions including the language of the negotiations. Somehow the British press manage to present this arrogance as the fault the other members.

The EU didn't ask the UK to leave, and once it does there is no particular reason for English to be used.

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[quote user="woolybanana"]

Gluey, as regards the banks, yes, I agree that the City has skewed out economy for a long time but what can we do but keep things as they are, given that out industrial base in not strong and we have neglected to rebuild as we might. [/quote]

We cannot allow British based - mainly foreign owned! - banks to continue as they are.

Since Thatcher repealed the Exchange Control Act of 1948, early on in 1979, capital has flooded out of the UK...

[quote]For Bobo's sake, we even sell our best FOOTSIE technology companies to the Japanese and others.[/quote]

Indeed, particularly, Dr Mike Lynch's Alchemy and Herman Hauser's ARM Holdings. Disgusting; ought never ever to have been allowed.

[quote] And, the housing market has taken too big a slice out of the economic cake. Too many of the middle classes are property millionaires, riding the bubble of shortage and not seeking to invest in development.

[/quote]

Agree wholly.

When I last checked for an article I was writing on the UK economy in circa 2004, the ONS Annual Wealth of GB survey recorded that residential property had reached the dizzy and insane level of representing circa 66% of the TOTAL capital value of GB plc. i.e. including docks, roads, factories, government buildings, all commercial property, airports etc.

Utter insanity.

Indeed, in order to finance the last Boom-Bust of NuLab property bubble, since there was little or no indigenous capital (Britain has failed to add fresh new capital since about 1960), in order to finance this last insanity, all the capital had to be imported via the global Interbank Market; leading to what a then relatively sane Peston called a "Capital Overhang".

[quote]UK needs to relearn how to design, develop, build and export stuff, as well as limiting imports where possible - eg food..

New technology companies are the future, but we should also be selling planes, trains and even drains to the rest of the world.

[/quote]

Couldn't agree more! You are singing from my own hymn sheet, old mate! I have been beating this drum now for more than 30 years!!

What Britain failed dismally to achieve was to transition from manufacturing High Volume-Low Cost, to Middle Volume- Middle Cost and then Low Volume-High Cost; and thereafter, create and maintain global competitive advantage in technology centric areas.

Did you know, for example, that when Thatcher created British Aerospace out of the remnants of a once proud and advanced aircraft industry and placed one of her chosen, that old shambling fool Professor Sir Roland Smith in charge, he not only led BaE to the largest record corporate deficit in history - excess £1 billion - but asset stripped including flogging a satellite manufacturer who led the World to France (Aerospatiale from memory).

Lovely clever strategy!

[quote]A start would be to cut fees for foreign students at UK Universities by half.[/quote]

Selected students only: as an ex University B School Examiner, Moderator and ad hoc lecturer, far too many foreign students are wasters; also seeking this route to vanish when their student visa expires...

Universities, in far too many cases, have simply ignored the incompetence and lack of suitability of these students, for the cash flow basis bums on seats and increased their pay.

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When we were in Walloon Land, we were advised not to speak French but to speak English instead as the Walloon folk (Walloonians?) do not appreciate being spoken to in French.

Wooly, you might know about this so, is what we were told correct?

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Some years ago we visited the Grotte de Han - deep in the French speaking area - with other like minded colleagues. At the point where you catch the tram to the entrance you were offered 2 options - francais or nederlandais. We opted for francais while everyone else opted for the other queue. [The Dutch all speak excellent English.]

On the conducted tour I translated what the guide was saying for the OH and after a short while realised that several others were listening in to my commentary. The guide, realising the situation, started to give a bi-lingual commentary.

Our colleagues got their tour in Flemish. After all in a French speaking area, the guides were already speaking in their second language.

It is a common misapprehension that certain nationalities have command of other languages - usually based on a very limited experience.

However a Belgian colleague once told me that in his home area of Antwerp (deeply Flemish) many would speak French to show how posh they were. The French they spoke he said was usually pretty appalling, but it gave them a sense of superiority over their neighbours.
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mint, the north of Belgium as a general rule is flemish speaking and Wallonie is in the south. It really is very much sliced in half, this makes it all  clearer, so Brugge, is definitely flemish speaking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communities,_regions_and_language_areas_of_Belgium

Brugge is beautiful, but when we have been there, we always call in at Blankenburgh, moules frites are cheaper than Brugge and it is a very pleasant place to spend an afternoon before catching the ferry.

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Thank you for the link, id.

Will teach me not to believe superior- acting and- sounding English men, dressed up in tweed jackets and making out that they know all about where you are visiting[I]

Normally, I do a bit of homework and read up beforehand on the places I go to visit but this particular time, it was a spur-of-the-moment decision.

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