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There Was No Possibility!


Gluestick
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And, of course, Johnson B didn't lie about his being for free movement of people at the time of the Brexit referendum?

And he has not, until the last few days, given out that he is supporting Turkey's bid to join the EU?

To be even-handed, there were lies told on both sides but, I believe, more blatantly by the Brexit side.  Or, put another way, you could say that the Remain side were more subtle about their lies![:-))]

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I can't see any mention of Turkey there - ?

And the proposal is for a European defence Fund.

That will enable a bunch of new bureaucrats to control the manufacture and no doubt the indefinite storing of billions of Euros worth of matériel, paid for by a levy on all the Members, but will not involve anyone doing anything with it.

I don't fancy current EU members being in charge of defence spending anyway - remember the Maginot line?

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Turkey.

Dave, Clegg et al denied utterly, Turkey was even being considered as an EU member.

Once the Referendum dust had settled, the EU Council proudly announced it was going ahead.

The sticking point was Erdogan's human rights atrocities, post the attempted coup and as a temporary holding measure the EU Council agreed to grant Turkey visa-free access to Europe, as a sop to ensure Erdogan continued to restrain the hordes of illegal immigrants in Turkey who were trying to reach Western Europe. This became a game of blackmail.

Now the EU Council has informed Erdogan that visa-free travel is not going to happen anytime soon; ad so he has again threatened to release the immigrant floodgates.

A frightening concept: tens of thousands of Turks running amok around Europe through uncontrolled Schengen borders.

[:-))]

P.S. For those who do not know, the Turkish Mafia is large and bloody dangerous and controls the import of heroin into Europe. It is also intertwined with the Albanian, Bulgarian and Russian Mafiya and the Sicilian Mafia, the Naples Camora, the Ndràngheta in Calabria, the Union Corse in mainly Marsailles and the Cosa Nostra in the USA.

Activities: white slaving for compelled prostitution; violent robbery; drugs dealing and distribution; contract murders; etc.

Nice.

You didn't really believe Donor Kebab bars created sufficient income for those top-end Mercs and Porsches, did you?

[Www]

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"The sticking point was Erdogan's human rights atrocities, post the attempted coup "

I love how you tell 'em GS. Turkey had to meet 32 criteria, of which it had met one - up until the coupe. It now meets none.

Never is a very long time, but if the 32 criteria remain on the table, they will not be joining any time soon.
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[quote user="andyh4"]"The sticking point was Erdogan's human rights atrocities, post the attempted coup "

I love how you tell 'em GS. Turkey had to meet 32 criteria, of which it had met one - up until the coupe. It now meets none.

Never is a very long time, but if the 32 criteria remain on the table, they will not be joining any time soon.[/quote]

Oh I quite agree, andy.

Except this is hardly the point, is it?

The salient point is the "assurances" given by Dave et al concerning no hope of Turkey joining "until the year 3,000!". Clearly on the EU's own press releases this is simply not true!

See here:

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I don't know what was reported in the UK media but the French media has been following Turkey's application quite closely both before and after the Brexit referendum (don't see how that had a bearing?). Clearly everyone involved is aware that it's a sensitive situation and they are trying to handle it accordingly. Maybe there was a conspiracy of silence in the UK media, otherwise wasn't it a bit dopey of Clegg et al to make up a delusional / grossly oversimplified version of events that anybody who reads the papers would have known was total codswallop?
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[quote]a bit dopey Clegg, delusional / grossly oversimplified version of events[/quote]

You've described him to a T, ET!

[:D]

[quote] anybody who reads the papers would have known was total codswallop?

[/quote]

Nail on head; except, the British "Papers", if one can stretch a point, dismally failed to provide intelligent and accurate versions of such events.

Interesting to me, how Farage instructed a motley collection of media bunnies what dumb brains they are two days ago in Copenhagen.

"........Copenhagen at the News Xchange annual conference for the international

broadcast news industry Farage addressed the audience of around 630

journalists from around the world and promptly sent them into a Twitter

frenzy by informing them they were out of touch."

Ah me, always remember the the profound words of Mark Twain (A newspaper man).

"The man who does not read a paper is ill-informed.

The man who does read a paper is misinformed!"

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Thank you, Norman.  So, that was just days before the referendum?  But, it wasn't what he said just a week or so later, was it?

You do know what the latest phrase for "lying" is, don't you?  It's called a "it's-written-on-the-side-of-the-bus", that is with reference to the 350 million pounds a week for the NHS if we left the EU[;-)]

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Mint wrote: Thank you, Norman. So, that was just days before the referendum? But, it wasn't what he said just a week or so later, was it?

You do know what the latest phrase for "lying" is, don't you? It's called a "it's-written-on-the-side-of-the-bus", that is with reference to the 350 million pounds a week for the NHS if we left the EU

The writing on the bus never said that all of the 350m would be spent on the NHS at all. It said" we send 350m to the EU , let us fund the NHS instead". Just saying
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[quote user="NickP"]

You do know what the latest phrase for "lying" is, don't you? It's called a "it's-written-on-the-side-of-the-bus", that is with reference to the 350 million pounds a week for the NHS if we left the EU

The writing on the bus never said that all of the 350m would be spent on the NHS at all. It said" we send 350m to the EU , let us fund the NHS instead". Just saying[/quote]

[url]https://www.google.fr/search?q=brexit+bus&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab&gfe_rd=cr&ei=inJBWN-eMaWN8Qe_urn4DQ[/url]

Doesn't INSTEAD mean all of the 350 million that we would be sending to the EU?

It certainly didn't say let us use SOME of that money to fund the NHS instead, did it?

It's a rum old language full of ambiguities, English; it's a wonder anyone, nevermind foreigners manage to learn it[geek]

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[quote user="NickP"]WB wrote: "you can stop trying to paper over the lies now, the UK lost the vote. "

You are wrong my wooly friend the UK won the vote.[/quote]It remains to be seen whether the UK won or lost the vote. It seems possible from the utterances of several government ministers that Northern Ireland may be outside the controlled borders of Great Britain so the UK may become a sort of semi-detached country. It also remains to be seen what happens with Scotland. So much depends on the final terms of the deal before we can say who if anyone has won. The only concrete results I have seen so far is an increase in hate crime - not a win there IMO.

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Back to the bus for a minute, if I may, because I didn't get to say everything I wanted to as I was rushing to go out.

So, if I said, I don't think I'll go to the cinema tonight, I think I'll go to the resto in the village INSTEAD.  Where would you expect to find me?  At the resto, right!  So, if you say, we will fund the NHS INSTEAD, IMHO, you mean that you will spend that 350 million on the NHS weekly, right.

NOT that it was 350 mil because that didn't take into account the rebate we get back or on the spending in the UK from EU coffers.

To top it all, Hammond has said that there will be NO extra funding for the NHS in the next FOUR years.

Lying?  Yes, you could say that but I couldn't possibly comment................[+o(]

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'It also remains to be seen what happens with Scotland.'

Perhaps Westminster should have a chat with Trump about wall building. Hadrian would be extremely chuffed if someone finished his.

'You might add the Libdems smashing an ex-Con Brexiteer in a remain constituency.'

With the Conservatives not putting up a candidate it rather limited choice. As Goldsmith decided he was an independent then conservative voters had to choose another party. They could vote for Comrade Corbyn and his Unity party, or the LibDems minibus party. Perhaps it would have been more sensible voting for the 4th placed candidate.

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I have tried to nail this down.

If any one group were responsible, then it was clearly Vote Leave!

See here:

Neither Leave. EU nor Grassroots Out made such claims.

In any case, I believe the original comment (And it was never ever a cast in Concrete Statement), was "for example, we could have an extra £350 Million a week to spend on the NHS and other critical areas."

Just shows what happens when political parties emulate major corporates and employ PR bunnies...

However, quite what this has to do with Turkey joining the EU or an EU military force is totally beyond me?

[8-)]

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

However, quite what this has to do with Turkey joining the EU or an EU military force is totally beyond me?

[8-)]

[/quote]

We were talking about Brexit politician's lies or rather BJ's blatant untruths.

He said that we would have 30 million Turks coming to the UK if we didn't leave.  Then, as you can see from Norman's clip, he had been making a case for Turkey to join only days before the referendum

Now that we have voted to Leave, he has gone back to his original position and spoken about encouraging Turkey to be part of Europe.

Talk about turncoat...........yeah, describes BJ in a nutshell.

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Just read this that GS referenced:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_Leave

I find the last paragraph extremely disturbing. If itwas in, say, Zimbabwe then there would be all sorts of criticism of the tactic. Obviously, Vote Leave did not trust free and open speech so needed to stop that and add telling lies to win.

I am perfectly happy to accept decisions when they have been made fairly - is disrupting meetings of the other side and telling lies being fair?

Of course there has to be criticism of the smugness of the other, losing side.
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Core problem, for me, Paul, is the British public and voter and taxpayer [:@]  has been lied to serially, since Heath's blatant misrepresentations and outright calumnies in 1973!

I have on file - somewhere in my archive - a copy of a letter sent to Heath by a Tory grandee, warning him (Heath), that the party were building up huge and disastrous future problems, by misrepresenting the UK's accession to the Treaty of Rome as "simply joining a trading bloc". Heath of course shrugged off such concerns. Which is indicative of senior politicians utter contempt for the voters and citizens.

Simple research, amply demonstrates the forward plans, desires and objectives of the European architects of the ideological concept and planning. For goodness sake! EMU (Economic and Monetary Union) as a future objective is enshrined in the damned treaty! Amongst others, Jean Monnet was a fervent Federalist.

Heath's introduction of VAT, as "One simple tax; one low rate!" was again complete calumny. VAT, Heath said, would replace the "Highly complex and difficult Purchase Tax (PT).

Except............... PT only applied to NEW luxury goods; watches, fur coats, jewellery etc. It never ever applied to either used goods and/or labour. Furthermore, VAT now suffers multiple rates and greater complexity than PT ever did. Outside the Scope: Zero Rate: Reduced Rate: Lower Rates on home energy; etc. And VAT's original 10% rate is now 20%; and if the EU Council have their way, the current UK dispensations on zero rate for Food, Education Supplies; Books and Newspapers etc, will evaporate.

Cynically, I once wrote:

"A politician  is an egotistical  and pathological liar, attached to a large mouth!"

(© PDD (R) Ltd 2016)

I find no cause to amend my statement...

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