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Don't be Shy Theresa


Grecian
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How can you trust any British politician, I don't think trust come into it, which is very very sad. Perhaps some are telling the truth. No way of knowing.

I see Brexit negotiations going less badly with Corbyn because May is not a good communicator and she comes across very lacking in personal skills and general likeability. The idea of spending whole days sitting round a table with her is chilling. Spending whole days sitting round a table with Corbyn could be stimulating and constructive. Corbyn shows respect for people, you could see that last night when he said things like "That's a fair question". May smiles at them patronisingly or even laughs, shakes her head vigorously and explains why they've got it all wrong, and then spouts the party line. She listens to the person just long enough to decide which button to press for the answer, she doesn't actually try or even pretend to try to understand that individual's concerns. If you show respect you get it back, if you don't you get a wall between you and them.
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Thats a very unfair photo Norman, you have never hidden your hatred of conservatives but that is getting personal and stooping low.

 

I watched the question session mainly because my interest has been piqued by all the personal comments on here about the leaders, what  I saw was not what I was expecting, she did not come across as weak and I thought she gave a good performance, nothing I could see that she would be regretting the next day, she was not in the same league as him however in any way shape or form.

 

If it were a vote for which one of them would get a job then I know who I would vote for but its a vote for which party will govern, neither of them will actually be doing the Brexit negotiations, either will have advisors and negotiators, both seem committed to Brexit so I cant really understand all the bitterness and angst, I doubt that either party or leader will have any more than a tiny influence over what the UK's negotiated exit terms will be.

 

Both have people pulling their strings, politics has become too much about personalities.

 

Who would be a voter indeed! I am glad that I choose not to, if I was then I would want to swap the people with the partys and their beliefs/doctrines.

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Can't argue with any of that Chancer.

But what gets up people's noses is that the focus at the beginning of the campaign was so firmly on, vote for ME (she kept saying ME not US) because I am the best person to negotiate Brexit. When it is so obvious that she isn't.

"Corbyn has the hard eyes of a killer; he may smile and mouth the right platitudes (having been coached a lot recently I would say) but his eyes remain hard and unbending." I think that is exactly what you need in a good negotiator.
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[quote user="Grecian"]Thats a very unfair photo Norman, you have never hidden your hatred of conservatives but that is getting personal and stooping low.

So bacon sandwiches are OK then?[/quote]

 

I either dont understand or that has gone over my head, can you elucidate please?

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Thats a very unfair photo Norman, you have never hidden your hatred of

conservatives but that is getting personal and stooping low.

You are absolutely right and for that I apologise; but the choice of making personal attacks on the leader of the party rather than concentrating on policies was made by the Tories, who believe that targetting Corbyn is a sure-fire winner.

They may be right but they can't then complain if others stoop equally low.

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I don't understand why people keep saying the Labour government left the country in a state.  They had less debt in 2008 as a proportion of GDP than when they took over in 1997 and the financial crisis that happened then was down to irresponsible banks in the US as well as the UK and affected every country so are people really classing that as Labour's fault?  The debt now under the tory government is triple what Labour left and more than any Labour government has ever left - in fact I read that it's more than all Labour governments debts combined, after seven years of austerity measures.  So how on earth can people perpetuate the idea that the torys are financially responsible?  They insist that public sector workers have to continue to have pay rises of less than inflation and cut funding to the NHS and schools yet MPs get good pay rises and they feel that the country is wealthy enough to cut corporation taxes.  How is that acceptable?

This thing about the land tax is a tory distortion too.  It's not an extra tax but a replacement of the council tax system that would mean that many people won't pay property tax anymore.  A bit like tax fonciere in France, only payable by the property owner.  So tenants won't pay it and home owners will only pay it based upon the value of the land owned - not the value of the buildings on it.  It's not good news for me personally as I'm an accidental landlord who presently pays no property tax whilst I have a tenant in my house but I have to admit that it's a more fair system than the present one.

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[quote user="NormanH"]Thats a very unfair photo Norman, you have never hidden your hatred of

conservatives but that is getting personal and stooping low.

You are absolutely right and for that I apologise; but the choice of making personal attacks on the leader of the party rather than concentrating on policies was made by the Tories, who believe that targetting Corbyn is a sure-fire winner.

They may be right but they can't then complain if others stoop equally low.

[/quote]Actually I watched that interview and the photo is a pretty fair illustration of her state at the time.  I really thought she was ill and/or having a nervous breakdown.  She seems to have recovered a bit by the time of the question time program but as she was avoiding appearing inbetween, I was half expecting an announcement that she was resigning due to ill health.

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[quote user="NormanH"]Thats a very unfair photo Norman, you have never hidden your hatred of

conservatives but that is getting personal and stooping low.

You are absolutely right and for that I apologise; but the choice of making personal attacks on the leader of the party rather than concentrating on policies was made by the Tories, who believe that targetting Corbyn is a sure-fire winner.

They may be right but they can't then complain if others stoop equally low.

[/quote]Actually I watched that interview and the photo is a pretty fair illustration of her state at the time.  I really thought she was ill and/or having a nervous breakdown.  She seems to have recovered a bit by the time of the question time program but as she was avoiding appearing inbetween, I was half expecting an announcement that she was resigning due to ill health.

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I watched a small bit of that interview before becoming turned off and yes, the photo was quite representative and perhaps telling, yes she seemed to have recovered considerably, I am slowly coming around to see something of all your points of view regarding the personalities.

 

In the interview (that which I saw) she reminded me of Arnie Scwartzenegger (sic) in the film total recall when his character was disguised as a very masculine looking female having an internal  meltdown at a spaceport check-in.

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You're correct Chancer that the personality of the leader isn't a criterion when it come to how well the party will run the country, but it is important in a way because that person represents the country. No country likes it when their leader is a national embarrassment, look at Flanby Hollande although on the international stage he did always seem dignified and quite suave. Macron looks sharp and alert and confident and energetic, and he can switch on a charming smile, and that's good for France's image. Even Merkel has a bit of a twinkle in her eye and apparently she has a wicked sense of humour. Does May have any charm or sense of humour, because if she does it's lost on me? No spark, no visible enthusiasm or passion, yes she's aggressive and determined and obstinate but overall I sense negative vibes, she's too tense and defensive.
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"Even Merkel has a bit of a twinkle in her eye and apparently she has a wicked sense of humour."

I think you should arrange a trip to Spec Savers ET. Although to be fair she may have shown that humour and twinkle when she was in the Stasi, interrogating people.
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NickP, watch her expressions while she tries to keep a straight face on this clip, and listen to the laughs she gets, and then say she has no sense of humour (the bit at the start about does Trump regret his tweets)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2017/mar/17/donald-trump-angela-merkel-no-handshake-video
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Oh,our wonderful press. Following from comments on here and other papers how about having a contrast.

The Daily Mail thought that Maggie May had a blinder and JC was totally inept.

Its a bit like how Fox news is molding the minds of quite a few american voters whose interests are not by met by the right (right in the political sense)
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[quote user="EuroTrash"]"Only" gone up 53%, oh that's alright then![/quote]

But it's not 'triple' though is it in the same way as there wasn't £350 million extra per week for the NHS after Brexit. Why let facts get in the way of fiction.
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OK l looked up the figures to see where the interpretation I'd read had come from.  In 2005, before the crisis, it was under half a trillion and after the crisis it went up fast and was a trillion by 2010 when the coalition government took over - it's now over 1.5 trillion.  They blame the crisis effect on the Labour government and have had strict austerity measures in place for seven years and yet it's still increased by half a trillion since Labour was out of government.  Who is to blame for that?

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html

The British public's personal debt has apparently also increased vastly during their reign too.  Look at the chart in this report to see how credit card debt grew after 2010 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/29/three-charts-show-britains-borrowing-binge-isnt-growth-credit/

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It's not a question of blame Debra just circumstance, the Tories had no choice but to continue borrowing after the crash which took far longer to recover from than most people thought, just look where France are now nearly ten years on - debt still increasing and unemployment stubbornly high. Borrowing will increase massively under Labour which is the last thing the UK needs with the uncertainty of the economic impact of Brexit looming.

Labour's manifesto was far too bold and their assumptions wildly optimistic, just ask the IFS.

As for personal debt, not sure how that's all the Tories fault, they'll be blamed for the rise in obesity and diabetes next.
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 There you go - the tories borrowing is because of the crash and yet labour's wasn't?  The point is that I keep reading this tosh that the tories had this awful situation they took over from labour, as if it was labour's fault and as if the crash never happened - but the debt since then is because of the crash and/or the situation they took over from labour.  Anything but their fault.  Of course it's about blame - they always blame it on anyone else.  If they get in again and it gets still worse it'll be the EU's fault. 

How will borrowing increase under labour?  They have costed their manifesto and intend to raise coporation tax (which has decreased and is due another increase under the tories) back to a level that will still be lower than it was when the tories took over and still lower than it is in many other countries.  The tories have all this debt and yet have promised a decrease in corporation tax (whilst still insisting that nurses should continue to be beggared with a less than inflationary pay increase).  Have you looked at the IFS opinion on the tory manifesto?

Of course personal debt has been affected by a government that keeps interest rates low and decreases wages so people need to get into debt to survive.

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"As for personal debt, not sure how that's all the Tories fault"

So how else do you explain the massive difference in levels of personal debt between countries, eg comparatively very low in France where lending is strictly controlled and there are surendettement measures in place because the government was concerned about the issue, and spiralling out of control in the UK where there are, AFAIK, very few regulatory controls?

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