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It's called sticking your head above the parapet


mint
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Chancer wrote : ... but what is the rationale behind giving the victims of this disaster £5000 pretty much immediately

Possibly because they have nothing left after the fire plus they need to find somewhere to live - which means paying a deposit and then rent for those who self-funded their lives.

The council will struggle to find accommodation for those who had their rent paid for them so those people will probably need to find private accommodation or have private accommodation found for them.

It is going to be chaotic for quite a while especially for those who cannot consider changing area.

Sue
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I understand that Sue but it has never been done before, call me cynical but..........................

 

Those who self funded their lives are probably in a minority but as it is Council accomodation they have the same responsability to them as to an asylum seeker or benefits claimant.

 

Were it a private landlord in a more affluent area, perhaps himself "in hiding" from the media with lots of questions about his probity then yes maybe 100% of the displaced tenants would be in the situation that you describe, no-one would be accepting responsability for them, they would be up shIt creek as I was and being tided over with a £5K loan (not a gift) would certainly make a big difference to them but I guarantee you that there will be equal amounts of normal self financing people fiding themselves in that situation every week who dont and will never recieve £5K, I simply want to know what the justification is in this instance when all the displaced people are the responsability of the local authority.

 

Call me cynical but......................................

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I assume those private owners/landlords who own flats in Grenfell Tower are fully insured but at the same time they too will also be upset and angry about how the block was managed by the council/management committee and how it has affected themselves or their tenants. Personally I would have an overwhelming sense of guilt if I was such a landlord and my tenant or tenants had lost their lives, been injured or had lost all their possessions.
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Some of the flats were privately owned, apparently but were they then rented out again or were they owner occupiers?

Not sure how that is relevant; the only thing that matters is that those panels were apparently knowingly installed when not approved for that job. Somebody decided that the risk was worth it, whether you call it penny pinching, saving public money or whatever.
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Some of the flats were actually up for sale or private rent at the time of the fire, £250k to buy or up to £2k per month for rent. The block started out as council owned but after the 'right to buy' scheme several tenants bought the leasehold and then I guess sold or rented the flats out.

Because Grenfell Tower sits in Kensington rents were quite high in comparison with similar flats in less desirable areas.
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My house was a former council house. I bought it off someone who bought it under right to buy, and the estate was about 50/50 council /owner occupied.People have strange ideas about council tenants. Mostly they are people working in lower paid jobs such as nurses, or carers, disabled people and elderly people. My experience of council blocks in London is that they are about the same..50/50 council, owner occupied. However even for owner occupied flats the council is the free holder and responsible for the buildings insurance, which is recouped via service charges to private landlords. The flat dwellers are responsible for their own contents insurance. So it would be the councils insurers who would have to foot the bill for the leaseholders, eventually. If you are made homeless due to a fire, whatever the circumstances, the council does have a duty to help you find emergency accommodation. It isn't free if you have an income. These are usually so awful that many people decline and stay with friends and family if they have any.
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[quote user="woolybanana"] the only thing that matters is that those panels were apparently knowingly installed when not approved for that job. Somebody decided that the risk was worth it, whether you call it penny pinching, saving public money or whatever.[/quote]

 

Were you not one of those calling people idiots for believing what they read in the press about Brexit?

 

John Cowley, managing director of CEP Architectural Facades, which produced rainscreen panels and windows for Grenfell Tower's cladding sub-contractor Harley Facades Ltd, said: 'Reynobond PE is not banned in the UK.

'Current building regulations allow its use in both low-rise and high-rise structures.

 

 

Now if you were to criticise current building regs and their enforcement I would be with you

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The installers (apparently) according to OH, were formally declared bankrupt a year or so after they did the work. They owed £1million pounds. The company was then taken over by another company who had the same director as the previous one. Of course that doesn't mean the panels they used were faulty or below spec, but it doesn't bode well.
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Surely big companies have insurance?????? and even if they go bankrupt, then their work is still insured?????

Also, there has been a lot on the tv about Planning Permission.......... I could go off on one about the Planners....... they are........ well, I can think of NOT ONE GOOD WORD TO SAY ABOUT ANY OF THEM or the rules / laws that pertain to them.

What I do know is that most stuff is down to building regs..... and frankly as they get so involved or should get so involved, would put stuff that is incorrect down to them. I know from personal experience, that they follow the rules to the nth degree concerning fire regs, even when it lacks common sense.... but there you go.

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I spoke to one of my sons last night, his company quoted for the windows at Grenfell tower at the time of the refurb.

They supply Rydon with products, and need to quote for various jobs like this one, even though they knew they would not get the work, as it was to be a price sensitive one.

They supply higher quality windows then some of their competitors, but Rydon need several quotes , to show they have secured the most competitive tender when working for public bodies.

So, they did not get the contract on this, as the price needed to be kept to a minimum, and rightly so.

I would guess ( and hope) it was the same with all the products used on the building.

Mint states, 'they only died because they were poor'.

When they choose to invite themselves to live in the UK, many without even a pot to their name, where else do you think these people should be given homes.

The UK tax payer has to provide a house for them, and then they get the rent paid for by, yes the UK tax payer.

Where should they be housed then Mint, country estate and a new Bentley maybe??

Trouble is the UK is like the kind lady who takes in a stray cat, before you know it, the house is over run with them.

And who pays every time, the UK tax payer of course!

It is a pleasure to see the government in the mess they are in now. :-)
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They interviewed Philip Hammond the other day and asked him about the panels, He said "I believe they are banned for use in the UK"

No Philip, they are not, they are banned in some other civilised countries and why did he not answer I am the Chancellor of the exchequer, a bean counter I know nothing about anything practical why are you asking me. Simple another pompous I know everything accountant.

Richard51 mentioned on page 2 that about some sort of management qualification, Richard that would be progress indeed!  Working on property management from both private and public sectors you need a packet top qualification, institute of residential property management (IRPM) having worked with holders of this illustrious qualification I can without any shadow of doubt state that these people generally don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to property building related matters. They are just overpaid estate agents. That is the route cause IMO.

May, is something else in my book, she is a "bloody difficult Woman"  Probably the only accurate thing I have heard her say. She writes that Corbyn would be alone and naked blah blah (really??)  This PM is a coward, won't take part in debates, won't actually meet and speak to the people but runs back to the bat cave where carefully bad scripted speeches are produce so the PM can address the nation like Winston, Patronising, arrogant, and yes she is pilloried by the media as they use her sound bites back on her, strong and stable etc.  The PM is a social misfit, a puppet with written scripts.

I didn't for one minute think Corbyn was electable, the rumours that it was the end of Labour. Some time back they went to a Tory stronghold and read out some of the policies without disclosing who's The Torry supporters liked what they heard until they were informed the were Corbyn's.  Stupid snobs.  Blinded by their own prejudices. Like the wine snobs who were outed on TV when white wine had red food colouring added or more recently changing the ambient lighting changes the same wine to taste differently.

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Wooly, if you mean the May/Corbyn parts then you are entitled to your opinion but none of our party leaders particularly appeal to me. The LibDems had the only thing I could see as relative to the UK's current myre. Let's take a look at the terms we arrange from the EU and then decide if leaving is at all a good idea.

The first parts, it's true, the fundamental problem is with those working in the property management sector, I work with them, it's like trying to explain to a 5 year old and then they just look at the bottom line cost not features or benefits. They want to receive a pat on the back for reducing services charges. Never mind that it may cost lives (They don't understand that bit)  Emergency light on stairwells, for years I have been saying they should be at floor level so they are visible in smoke filled areas. No the property manages want them at eye even though you won't be able to see them as confirmed by the very brave chap from Romania who rescued people but said he couldn't in the confusion find the fire escape until he used his hands to feel for the stairs.

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Most emergency lighting can be fitted into the wall so that it pretty much vandal proof..and I don't think I've ever seen lights painted over. Lights at floor level would not help drug dealers.

And what makes you think that high rise flats are full of yobs? Mostly families, disabled people and elderly people.. or are you just being silly?
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You could make that comment about anywhere. My brother lived in a very nice appartement block near Harrods for a while. There was unfortunately one lad who lived there with mummy and daddy who was a bit of a yob, and broke the lift one weekend when his friends were there, set off fire extinguishers another time, left broken bottles in the lobby. As you say you only need one, but that didn't mean the block then refused to put in fire safety features. They did chase up the parents for the money, but as the yob was over 18, they weren't liable and I don't think they ever managed to get the lad himself to pay up.
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Wooly - some blocks of council flats do get vandalised, like those in Hull where I used to work. Breaking the lifts , peeing on the staircases, dumping rubbish etc.

But these London ones seem to be occupied by people who are grateful to have a roof over their heads.

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