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It's called sticking your head above the parapet


mint
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wb and ebaynut, words cant express how much I loath the bile coming from the likes of yourselves.

Perhaps if you were born a Syrian, Yemenite, Palestinian etc you would think differently.

Remember that whilst you might well be OK at the moment, things do sometimes occur that are life changing and can happen to anybody.
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Richard51, exactly what is wrong with my last post? I recommended help and accommodation but not by the organisations suggested by the previous poster. Such help does take a day or so to set up, you know.

And I said that there should be appropriate action if fault is proved.

But I condemned the ranting raving rentamob put out by JC and his friends, whilst not excluding the right to demonstrate of those who have genuine reasons to be angry.

It seems that you are allowing your support for JC and his party to cloud you reading judgement.

And if you think the performance by JC was any more than a put up job, then you are even cloudier.

If you look carefully at France, you will realise that it ain't so compassionate as all that, but is a Statist nightmare where the citizen serves the needs of La Nation and its organs. Example, just look at the treatment of the workers in the asbestos industry in the Nord Pas de Calais. The company involved was allowed to subject them to murderous conditions and has since used the legal system to drag out the trial and compensation claims until many of the former workers were dead (eg my late neighbour in Aix)

Remember, until a couple of years ago, class actions were not available in France.

So, please get it right and don't deny others's compassion because they do not wave the red flag and try to take down elected governments by mob rule.

Unless you wish to see UK turned into Venezeula!

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So you would object to the statist running of healthcare in the UK (NHS) then. Perhaps you would be far happier in the USA.

If I am blinded by ideology then have you considered that perhaps you are too. At least I'm not turning a blind eye to, or exploiting the less fortunate.
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Nor am I, old love. Which unfortunate folk have I suggested exploiting today? And don't mention Palestine for my views on that might get me banned.

As regards healthcare, there are various models in Europe which work; the NHS, for all its strengths is only one of these but whether it is the best, I cannot say. But it does have both a good and bad record of spending and healthcare.

Your constant refrain about the USA is an old leftie trick to justify State spending ad nauseam and to frighten folk.
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OK - I'm going to callk out those who are shouting 'off with her head' at TM - the Prime Minister of the UK, and leader of a democratically elected government.

WHY the shouting and the mob 'lynch' attitude towards TM?

The people in those protests are NOT in the majority those who were living in that block, or had families in that block.  If you or I had been involved in that tragedy the last thing I'd be doing would be going to collect a commie labour banner and going on a march.   I'd be too traumatised, and too busy sorting out clothing for myself, family - and listening to advice from the officials about new housing.

No b---y time for protesting - so who are they ? - and where have they come from ?

Secondly - what's TM supposed to do - as a PM she's done everything possible to support the families, thank the emergency services, visited the injured in hospital, provide funding - done ALL the practical things to help.

JC - just wandered around, like P Di incarnate, doing 'touchy feely' and threatening to take over property belonging to 'the rich' - which would actually include quite a few of his own MPs.

There were safety concerns raised in 1997 about this cladding.   The improvements were carried out under Blair's improved housing - which INCLUDED extra insulation because of its signing up to the climate change act, act.  Labour were far more to 'blame' for the rules, regulations, thinking that led to this tragedy than anything the Tories have done.

Under Labour Government Khan was undersecretary for communities and local government responsible for public housing - a LABOUTR minister.   The new LABOUR MP for Kensington - Emma Coad - was ON THE BOARD OF MANAGEMENT that the residents of Grenfell block complained to.   There - there are TWO directly responsible LABOUR people.

So why all this 'TM must go'.

Why this emphasis on 'touchy feely' for pity's sake;  she's an adult' aren't we all adults;  TM has feelings - she just doesn't do what the z-list celebs do - emote all over the place, and twitter and selfie - those people are seriously weird.,

Imagine Churchill doing 'touchy feely' - he had far more important things to do;  the nations citizens were far more grown up than today's load of 'look at me, me, me - I need a hug - I wanna be on the telly...'.

WHY are people asking for TM's head - baffles me totally.

Right - that's my head well and truly above the parapet - who's going to have a go then ? Go on.....

Chessie

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Ah, Chessie, some common sense at last. The loony left have got the bit between its fangs since the election and have manufactured a narrative which blames TM and the Tories for just about anything that goes wrong.

The shadow chancellor has been busy inciting violence at the big Trade Union demonstration planned sometime soon, suggesting that the loonies take over parliament. It must be said that both he and Corbyn believe in decision making by mob rule rather than by parliament.

One remembers how Hitler came to power.

Just a reminder that Comrade Corbyn only got his seat number based on the old electoral register which favours Labour by about 30 seats - remember he was strongly opposed to it being updated.
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You don't need to tell me about Palestine Dicky boy, I had many students who were Palestinian in my North Africa days, some of whom bore the scars of the wars of liberation, and whose families had been massacred.

You misunderstood my comment totally, by the way, though the use of the word Palestine should have given you a clue.

Not a subject to get me going on.
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STOP - this is a thread about London, about a tragedy that is being hijacked by corbeans brown shirt lot.

NOT about Palestine - or anything other than what the OP first posted.

Anyone wishing to talk about the Jews, the Holacaust, or the man in the moon - can I suggest a separate thread is started.

It always infuriates me4 when one post, talking about something very serious, gets hijacked off into the realms of colonialism, rascism, imperial past, european colonialism, etc etc etc.

Please stop it - right now. 

THIS is not the place.

Please - Chessie  

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Just for anyone's  information - here's how JC voted - back in 2005 -

to EXEMPT tower blocks from sprinkler systems.

On June 7, 2005, @jeremycorbyn voted to exempt tower blocks built before ...

That's corbyn - why isn't anyone shouting for his head, baying for his blood, or him being at the receiving end of vile, vicious, inhuman abuse ?

Where's the shouting about him - and his other labour lot who will have contributed to this tragedy.

Why shouldn't he resign as 'leader' right now - anyone tell me ?

Go on - please explain - damned if I understand the witch hunt going on.

Chessie

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As one who did not vote for TM I agree with much of what you say Chessie.

If I were in this dreadful situation I would not want to be hugged by crying politicians. I would want them to be doing their job properly. That is putting help in place and instigating an investigation into how and why it happened.
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Richard - sorry if I sounded off - but I couldn't understand the ref to Palestine;  didn't want this thread looping off in another, very contentious, area where we all have very definite views.   Sorry everyone - not really shouting....just wanted to avoid the swerve.

No comments yet about why TM should go, and not corbyn as well.

Hmmmm ?

Anyway, it's too hot, going to sort out pool, and talk to farmer who's busy with his big machine baling up the hay;   poor man, the machine's not working properly and instead of dropping bale automatically he's having to leave his cab and kick it every time the baler is full so it operates manually.

Work darned hard, these farmers.....

Chessie

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Chessie wrote:

Imagine Churchill doing 'touchy feely' - he had far more important things to do; 

Except of course that he is recorded as walking through the blitzed streets of London and encouraging those in the thick of it. It is called empathy and seems to be a trait that TM is sadly lacking - at least in a visible form.

To be fair she does seem to be doing the "right" things but she seems to be about 50 hours off the beat. And the local council seem to be behind even her beat.

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Richard51 wrote,

wb and ebaynut, words cant express how much I loath the bile coming from the likes of yourselves.

Perhaps if you were born a Syrian, Yemenite, Palestinian etc you would think differently.

Remember that whilst you might well be OK at the moment, things do sometimes occur that are life changing and can happen to anybody.

Liberalism truly is a mental disorder. :-)
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[quote user="richard51"]mint will need to confirm or otherwise, but the OP reference was not only about London but "Maggie May must go". [/quote]

Actually, Richard, my original post was about the ineffectiveness and rubbishy leadership qualities of TM

I put in the bit about the fire almost as an afterthought because I was in distress about that and was haunted by thinking about what it must have been like for those affected.

There are now all sorts of rumours about an alternative leader, yet another election, her perception by UK citizens, not to mention EU leaders, and her possible changed status both in the country and as leader of our brexit negotiating team[:)]

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the woman's policies (non policies), her disastrous modus operandi  

and much else about her but even I am beginning to feel sorry for her.  She looks completely at sea and ill and grey.  Perhaps the Conservative plotters could now put her out of her evident misery.

Can't be much fun when crowds are calling her "coward" to her face, cartoonists are seriously cruel and the ex chancellor Osborne as called her Dead Woman Walking.

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Mint wrote,

I told OH that those people died in that tower block because they were poor and had to live in dangerous housing.

Well if you could afford to live elsewhere, why on earth would you chose to live there??

What I would like to see is a report into the following,

How much was the rent on a flat in Grenfell tower?

How many people paid the full rent themselves, and how many received some, or all of the rent paid for by the UK taxpayer?

As the UK government likes to ask its people to fill in forms stating their ethnic group, I would like to see one showing the make up of the occupiers of the tower.

I wonder how many lived in the UK ten years ago?

Yet the mob take to the streets demanding 'their rights' even beating up a guy they mistook for someone responsible in their eyes, but who turned out to be a volunteer helper.

Contrast this to the young couple on the Phil and Holly show, they escaped from the seventh floor with their young child. They were taking it all in their stride, and asked for nothing.

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Having been made homeless myself by a fire I would not wish it on anyone, and whilst I completely understand the help and assistance given by the community (I would be one of the first myself) nobody weighed me in £5000, like everyone else I just had to dust myself off and get on with it.

 

Take away the modern instant media including its false news, think of a similar disaster 20, 30 or more years ago, and remember the death toll from this tragedy is not high compared to many others in the past, ask yourself if any of what has gone on apart from the community help would have happened without mediatisation?

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Absolutely, but what is the rationale behind giving the victims of this disaster £5000 pretty much immediately when it has never been done before?

Especially when they are all the responsability of the local authority who as the landlord and in the case of many the body who paid their rent.

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