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The Kavanaugh hearings


woolybanana
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So ......... guilty until found innocent?

My take on this, which will not be poular I know, is that somebody can make any sort of accusation about a person and the automatic assumption is that ‘Its true’.

Now, this bloke may have been horrible and deserves everything that he’s undoubtedly getting. But what if he’s totally innocent?

I / we have some experience of a friend similarly accused (not sexual impropriety, something else). He was subsequently totally exonerated, but his career was considerably foreshortened.

These matters are extremely difficult to prove either way and we should (IMO) be careful not to jump to conclusions.

Expecting incoming flak.

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Christine Ford is a successful academic and author. It is difficult to imagine what she would hope to gain by making baseless accusations, as I doubt she hopes for (or needs) lfinancial gain, and, judging by her testimony, I suspect (given the focus of her academic interest) she might have had a good idea of the sort of flak she might expect in coming forward. She could have chosen to keep quiet.

Kavanaugh is being put forward as a candidate for a job for LIFE. Once appointed, it will be nigh on impossible to remove him from office, unless he resigns or dies.

In broad terms, she has a great deal to lose, he has a great deal to gain.

Of course, other considerations aside, he's a Trump pick so his proposed appointment will polarise opinion.

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Why would you expect flak, Gardian?  I don't really know (as much as one can know these things) who is telling the truth and who isn't as I haven't heard all the evidence.

All I merely said was that, after hearing some of Ford's statement and answers, I thought it was very distressing and I didn't want to watch more.

I don't assume that Kavanaugh is guilty....eventually, some conclusion would be reached and we would all be told.

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I have been watching this a lot today.

I do not understand how obtuse these inquisitors can be, when they say there is no witness.

Isn't that how it usually is with sexual encounters, that  whether consensual or sadly, when it is not, there are just two people???? And then it is one person's word against another.

And if there are other participants or voyeurs, wouldn't they lie to cover their own role, if it was not consensual.

In the past we have discussed how many of us women have had very unwanted attention ........... and if memory serves, were accused of complaining too much.  Well we weren't complaining, simply reporting on our experiences, and it is frightening and disgusting when it happens and something that is not forgotten.

The good thing is that most men do behave properly, but those that don't, well, us ladies all know how that goes.

And there is the problem with innocent until proved guilty, most rapes and sexual assaults are not reported and then getting a case to court is pretty slim and so a very small percentage of those accused and are likely guilty are eventually found guilty. And no one seems to care about the victim.

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I do so wish there was a "like" button on here.  Thanks Idun. Not been watching any of it, but sadly, mud sticks, whether true or not, but these days trial by media seems to be the way the world is going, and don't they so love to throw mud regardless ... innocent until proved guilty seems to have disappeared from memory.

Likewise Guardian, I can see some of  your point too, regardless of what the outcome, it is not good for either ... what a horrible world we are living in now.

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This post is to the O/P only, and not the other members who have displayed that they can accept that a person is still innocent until proved guilty.

Your ability to show your total outage at the claims by this lady and accept them as fact, and your quick reaction to draw a guilty verdict on the judge, shows fully, your one sided liberal bias.

The lady accuser cant remember where or when this 'event' happened, no-one can back her claim up, she is a democratic voting liberal from California, so does have some reason to try to bring this man down.

But the biggest scandal of all this must be that the Democrats on the committee, knowing of her claims weeks ago, but never brought them up, until it looked like the judge may be confirmed to the supreme court, and then the details got 'leaked' to the press, against Ms Fords wishes. This is politics at its finest and you cant see it.

But where is your outrage, may I ask when thousands of young English children are gang raped by Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs in numerous city's in England, and the government cover it up for years. Your silence is deafening.

Had it not been for Times reporter Andrew Norfolk pressing the issue until his editor finally run the story, after the government and police knowing of the crimes for over TEN years and hiding them up, we may not know about any of it today.

Hence the Times is the only paper I will read, and has been for several years now, at least there is some truth in the paper. I am afraid if you rely on the Guardian or CNN to help you form your opinions you will never be able to escape your clear signs of TDS that display in every post you make.

Enjoy your day.
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As Idun has so eloquently pointed out there is little chance of there being proof one way or the other. So the senate committee will need to base a decision based on a balance of probability. In some cases this might amount to the probability of whether I get re-elected or not.
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The only way this should have been sorted would have been via a full FBI investigation. The national humiliation of the US by this committee of largely non lawyers is unbelievable.

I do not see how Kavanaugh can accept the post now anyway after refusing a full FBI investigation. Oh, and there were all the convenient lapses about his drinking habits etc.

And, just in case he has got his head out of the Times by now, I totally condemned the gangs of Asian men and their behaviour. The problem is that many of us have been so brainwashed by the system into being wary of saying these things out loud for fear of being called racist.
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No Times today I am afraid, once a week is all. But there you go again, they are not Asian men, they are MUSLIM PAKISTANI'S. Please don't count all the other races from that area with them by saying Asian.

And yes, many of you have been 'brainwashed' and stay silent, then when one brave man in the UK tells the truth and speaks up on this, they are indeed called racist and put in jail for speaking the truth.

I don't blame the MUSLIM PAKISTANI men who have done this to these girls. I blame our government and police for covering it up and allowing it to continue.

And as for an FBI investigation, they do not intend to investigate, the reasons have been given as to why, if you care to only look.
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There is no Statute of Limitations for the type of offence that Kavanaugh might have committed in the State where he might have done it, so had the FBI been allowed to investigate he might have been indicted which would nt have done him any good.

The FBI gave in to political pressure, full stop.
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If you think that, you may wish to view this speech by Joe Biden, about FBI investigations.

I appreciate you will most likely not want to, and indeed wont, but others may wish to see what this leading Democrat has to say.

So you don't have to watch it all, as you wont like all the other points that are made on this, as they do not back your view. (but anyone with an open mind may care to watch it all) , just skip to 14.22 minutes to see Joe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Tcj_F6rH78
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Listening to the utube you cited, ebn, it is clear that Kavenaugh cannot and should not ever be allowed near such a high position. Just listen to his highly political rant around minute 14. No judge should ever make this kind of statement as it implies huge partiality that would be carried through into office, and implies that he would be subject to party influence if elected.

Not fit for office should be the verdict.
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The FBI report would be very useful in bringing together all the strands of this sorry affair, particularly reports of Kavanaugh’s alleged behaviour, testing their veracity, interviewing people, presumably giving lie detector tests. Which means there would be a clear record for to judge on, not just the selective and sometimes redacted evidence on either side ( Kavavaugh himself said yesterday that he had had some evidence redacted).

And it would stop the hideous political posing which Kavanaugh and the Republicans have gone in for.
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[quote user="nomoss"]It's unfortunate that the judge came over more as a tearful schoolboy caught out than someone with the strength and dignity necessary for the job he aspires to.

[/quote]

Nomoss, that is EXACTLY what I thought!  How can he be a Supreme Court judge when he has been seen to be snivelling and near hysterical, shouting etc?  His comportment and judgement have to be in question?

Also, all that about his 10-year old daughter saying they should "actually be praying for that lady" does not have the ring of truth to it.  Reminds me of Serena Williams, in another context, yelling at the umpire "I have a daughter!"

After all that rolling of his tongue around inside his mouth and sniffing every few seconds and, yes, waffling and incoherence does not amount to a good defence.

I don't say he is guilty; I don't know ....is my simple answer.....But, NM, you are right, he is not ideal material for the position of Supreme Court judge.  Would you really have confidence in his judgement if you were unfortunate enough to be tried in his court???

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[quote user="ebaynut"]This post is to the O/P only, and not the other members who have displayed that they can accept that a person is still innocent until proved guilty.

Your ability to show your total outage at the claims by this lady and accept them as fact, and your quick reaction to draw a guilty verdict on the judge, shows fully, your one sided liberal bias.

The lady accuser cant remember where or when this 'event' happened, no-one can back her claim up, she is a democratic voting liberal from California, so does have some reason to try to bring this man down.

But the biggest scandal of all this must be that the Democrats on the committee, knowing of her claims weeks ago, but never brought them up, until it looked like the judge may be confirmed to the supreme court, and then the details got 'leaked' to the press, against Ms Fords wishes. This is politics at its finest and you cant see it.

But where is your outrage, may I ask when thousands of young English children are gang raped by Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs in numerous city's in England, and the government cover it up for years. Your silence is deafening.

Had it not been for Times reporter Andrew Norfolk pressing the issue until his editor finally run the story, after the government and police knowing of the crimes for over TEN years and hiding them up, we may not know about any of it today.

Hence the Times is the only paper I will read, and has been for several years now, at least there is some truth in the paper. I am afraid if you rely on the Guardian or CNN to help you form your opinions you will never be able to escape your clear signs of TDS that display in every post you make.

Enjoy your day.[/quote]

Whatever the nationality this exists.

Women, in the main are victims of sex crimes and your remarks simply come across to me as misogynistic ebay nut.

And you may be perfectly respectful of women and wonder what on earth the fuss is about, because you would not dream of doing such things. I do not know how you behave, but you see, I am just hoping that your views are simply because you have not understood what it is like to have unwanted sexual advances, or aggression towards you.

I do not know of one woman who has not suffered louche remarks, or being touched up, having some gros degueulas copping a feel, and even that awful thing comes in many forms. And those things are the least of it, because then we are into sexual assault or rape. But all of it is serious, and do you know what, women have had enough of this.

Even the semi banal things that happen, especially to young women who get comments about their figures, their weight, their humour, their time of the month.

And even for my generation who was sexually liberated because of the pill, that there was still that almost precious  notion of reputation, and when I look back, how ridiculous it was any of us should have felt like that. How many men are called a 'bike' etc etc, and I can think of expressions that are far worse. And yet women are labelled.

Sex is a lovely pastime when it is consensual. And women can and do enjoy sex,  with who we want to be with.

Re this Kavanaugh thing: He said/She said.

 I found that she acted with dignity.

For someone who has been a Judge for years, he seemed agitated to me, and getting weepy, dear me, really, what if she had acted like him, full of hell and then crying, just what adjectives would have been used about the 'hysterical' woman??????

IF anything proved that he should not be a Justice, then I think that that interview did, a Judge should be just that, someone measured and professional, and he was not, surely the USA could do better.

PS:  I hope that Flake gets his way, just a pity he voted as he did to pass, so that this gets passed onto the senate floor

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