What about my UK OAP after Brexit?

[nomoss]

In reply to a question in the House a minute or so ago, asking about the future of annual increases in the OAP paid to UK citizens living in the EU after Brexit, Theresa May replied that these would be "subject to continued discussions with the EU".

What the heck has the pension the UK pays us have to do with an agreement with the EU, please?

As I half suspected, every UK government, as they have historically tried to do, will use any possible excuse to save money at the expense of the "wealthy expats living in exotic sunny holiday resorts"

If this happens, and our pensions are frozen as a result, we intend to gift our house here to our children, return penniless to the UK, and claim every possible benefit available there, including accommodation.

EDIT: Incidentally, listening to some of the questions to the PM today, I am amazed by the apparent ignorance of many MP's of the contents of the Withdrawal Agreement; it seems that few, if any, understand it, let alone have even read it, or been expertly advised on its contents.

[NormanH]

"we intend to gift our house here to our children, return penniless to

the UK, and claim every possible benefit available there, including

accommodation."

Read King Lear before you do that ...

[nomoss]

I'll just have to hope I have better luck and judgement than him[:D]

[chessie]

NoMoss - you're quite right - the UK doesn't even need to be in any kind of discussion with any country.  It's up to the UK government surely - maybe it's this mind-set that, after 40 years of 'taking rules from the eu and gold-plating them' that we have a government and civil service that can't take any decision without 'approval from eu'....

As for up-rating pensions annually, I'd suggest you do a trawl - you'll discover that in many parts of the world where there are UK ex-Pats receiving a UK pension they ARE annually increased.

The exceptions - the Commonwealth countries;  why - because it was part of the 'agreement' with the so-called common market that the UK was forced to cut ties with the Commonwealth, and part of that meant freezing pensions.   Some of the references I have looked at to check my memory, are incorrect and do not cover heath's time as PM.   But I can well remember those times;  New Zealand lamb and butter; South African jams etc etc... all had to be terminated/restricted.  

(Which, as a side-bar, has led to Australia now trading in live animal exports - one of the most appalling, cruel, sickening treatment of animals.... - having lost trade with the UK this is what Oz is now doing).

As for the MPs not having a clue about the Withdrawal Act (or white paper of surrender) - of course they don't have a clue.   They are so used to just nodding through anything from the eu that they are totally ignorant of many things they've agreed to that now need unpicking and replacing.   Added to which the Wicked Witch has given them little time to really read and examine the 'piece of white paper' she thinks is so wonderful.   (The delusion of power I think it's called).

Far too busy with their 'isms' and 'minorities' and transgender/any other gender nonsense.... to really think and read about this important time in the UK's history.

And just for fun, I think I'm going to wear my yellow hi-viz jacket every time I get out of the car and go shopping, or walkies.... !!  Support my rural french neighbours.

Chessie

[NormanH]

We don't know what will be decided, but it seems rather convoluted to blame this particular issue on the EU.[:-))]

It is for the UK government to decide and take responsibility for,  as  is the case with whether health care will continue to be covered  for those currently on an S1.

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]

We don't know what will be decided, but it seems rather convoluted to blame this particular issue on the EU.[:-))]

It is for the UK government to decide and take responsibility for,  as  is the case with whether health care will continue to be covered  for those currently on an S1.

[/quote]

I'm not quite as worried about the health care under our S1's, as that has been specifically mentioned, and, on top of that, the MP for our old home town - Claire Perry - stated on Question Time recently that this issue had definitely been agreed, without mentioning any conditions or ratification.

If this turns out not to be the case, and it turns out that she was lying, I am going to be very upset if I have to go back there as above, and, as my family has been there since the 14th Century, there are quite a lot of them around the place, who I hope will sympathise with me.

[NormanH]

It may  well have been settled (although I can't find a clear reference in the draft agreement).

My point is more that both these issues are in the UK government's hands not the EU's..

[Patf]

S1 - we had decided that if we had stayed and S1 was stopped we would join the french health system. PUMA I think it's called. I think you have to pay something.

As for OAP, who knows whether those of us in the UK will still receive it? With all the gloomy economic predictions.

As the old saying goes, the only certainties are death and taxes.

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]

It may  well have been settled (although I can't find a clear reference in the draft agreement).

My point is more that both these issues are in the UK government's hands not the EU's..

[/quote]

It's pretty laborious to find any clear information in that document, so I have rely on the expert advice of elected representatives [8-)]

But if OAP's living in the EU are deprived of  their current entitlements, there will be a huge backlash against all parties, and, following on from Chessie's remarks, they will have to come up with some clever excuses once they can no longer blame everything that goes wrong on the EU.

[Grecian]

nomoss, I really can't believe that a politician would lie to you...

I have found a link that lays out Citizens' Rights and the Withdrawal Agreement, the document is issued by the Scottish government, but it is  the clearest explanation that I could find.

If you scroll down to page 16 you will find the text relating to healthcare, exportability of UK benefits and pension provision.

https://sp-bpr-en-prod-cdnep.azureedge.net/published/2017/8/25/Brexit--Citizens--Rights-and-the-Withdrawal-Agreement/%20Citizens'%20Rights%20and%20the%20Withdrawal%20Agreement.pdf

[NormanH]

But that is an old document

In the recent signed agreement I found on page 34:

the

host State may only require Union citizens and United Kingdom

nationals to present, in

addition

to the identity documents referred to in point (i) of this paragraph,

the following

supporting

documents as referred to in Article 8(3) of Directive 2004/38/EC:

(i)

where

they reside in the host State in accordance with point (a) of Article

7(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC as workers or self

-employed,

a confirmation of engagement from the employer or a certificate of

employment, or proof that they are self employed;

(ii)

where

they reside in the host State in accordance with point (b) of Article

7(1) of

Directive

2004/38/EC as economically inactive persons, evidence that they have

sufficient

resources for themselves and their family members not to become a

burden on

the

social assistance system of the host State during their period of

residence and that

they

have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host State

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/759019/25_November_Agreement_on_the_withdrawal_of_the_United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland_from_the_European_Union_and_the_European_Atomic_Energy_Community.pdf

Back to Lear:

O, sir, you are old.

Nature in you stands on the very verge

Of her confine: you should be ruled and led

By some discretion, that discerns your state

Better than you yourself.

I pray you, father, being weak, seem so....

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]Back to Lear:

O, sir, you are old.

Nature in you stands on the very verge

Of her confine: you should be ruled and led

By some discretion, that discerns your state

Better than you yourself.

I pray you, father, being weak, seem so....

[/quote]

It sounds to me that if I we don't have cover under S1's we won't be able to stay here by taking out cover under the latest rules re. PUMA if we don't have minimum resources.

I might be old, but I can discern my state, and it's a lot better than anyone who lied to me is going to be in [:@]