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marks out of 10 please for......


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I can see that coming out could be seen as an opportunity, a chance for the UK to plough it's own furrow once more, and other, younger, friends certainly put a convincing argument, although they live in the rural South West and I suspect the 'view' is different from there.....I worry about jobs and loss of investment in the UK, if we were to leave, particularly.

And I get pretty tired of the idea that all immigrants want to be on benefits when the great majority come to this country to work....
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Well I see my last post has been deleted. I only placed it as I have been

trying to contact the forum admin for days and get nothing back, O wait  Q

already used that one.[:)]

 

Seriously, this I think is an excellent example of how free speech is being

eroded, as Chancer says, (and I appreciate him saying so) he may not have

agreed, but did not see a reason for it to be deleted as it was. Its somehow  OK

to say and post how wonderful, and what a benefit immigration is to a country,

but mention any of the bad points and it get's deleted.  Je suis Charlie

anyone????

 

Lindal, if you think my post broke any rules regarding ‘inciting racial

hatred’ I suggest that you leave the interpretation  of the law to people who

know something about it.

 

WOW, did you see Donald's latest triumph, he has now sweep all away in NV,

and is the front runner for the republican nomination.  My hopes for the future

look brighter each day, Boris will be our prime minister, the UK will leave the

EU, and Donald will become president of the US. I could only dream of this last

year, but it could just come true by the end of this year. [B]

 
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OK, I admit to reading the DM and occasionally I even find an article with which I agree; here is one such:

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3461345/PETER-OBORNE-principles-PM-accuses-Boris-self-Tories-flaunted-anti-EU-views-careers-first.htm[/url]

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[quote user="ebaynut"]

Well I see my last post has been deleted. I only placed it as I have been trying to contact the forum admin for days and get nothing back, O wait  Q already used that one.[:)]

 

Seriously, this I think is an excellent example of how free speech is being eroded, as Chancer says, (and I appreciate him saying so) he may not have agreed, but did not see a reason for it to be deleted as it was. Its somehow  OK to say and post how wonderful, and what a benefit immigration is to a country, but mention any of the bad points and it get's deleted.  Je suis Charlie anyone????

 

Lindal, if you think my post broke any rules regarding ‘inciting racial hatred’ I suggest that you leave the interpretation  of the law to people who know something about it.

 

WOW, did you see Donald's latest triumph, he has now sweep all away in NV, and is the front runner for the republican nomination.  My hopes for the future look brighter each day, Boris will be our prime minister, the UK will leave the EU, and Donald will become president of the US. I could only dream of this last year, but it could just come true by the end of this year. [B]

 

[/quote]

eBaynut, The deleted post was both racist and offensive, please re read the Code of Conduct. It has nothing to do with the erosion of free speech; nothing so grandiose. It has to do with keeping the forum running smoothly within the Code of Conduct .

And FYI personally I am getting very tired of the digs at a past moderator, when given the opportunity the most vociferous critics decided to sit on their hands when a call went out for volunteers to fill the vacant position.

 

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So just whose jobs are these people getting..... ?

The UK is actually more than the SE of England, although looking at this thread, it would seem that it is some sort of utopia, OR is that JUST the SE, plentiful jobs for all and sundry!

Thing is that it is not like that here and yet we get bus loads of asylum seekers who are damn well housed when the councils cannot house locals properly and decently..........

......and maybe if we were looking after our own and the Job Centres and DWP were doing their jobs properly too, those inhabitants of this region who currently need help would get it and then 'I' wouldn't mind others getting help.

As it is, I am sickened by much on this thread.

And yes, older folks are notoriously self centred, not helped by the Thatcher years, how it changed people, even those who hated her. Being unaffected by that particual infection, my point of view and how I deal with life is very very different to most people I know.

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 I think there is a difference in view depending on where you live - my friends in rural Somerset seem to be all for coming out where as more local, Thames Valley friends seem more inclined to stay in. This area does have low unemployment - but with that it has very ordinary terraced houses at £350,000, and a huge rental market because its so difficult to save the deposit - where as one friend who is selling a big four bed in a nice area in the West Country is asking just £220,000

I don't know about Utopia - there are 10,000 people on our local housing list ( and some complain about us taking 3 refugee families a year for the next 5 years with a max of 60 people ) and my son pays £5000 a year to commute and rarely gets a seat on the train.

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[quote user="Russethouse"] 

And FYI personally I am getting very tired of the digs at a past moderator, when given the opportunity the most vociferous critics decided to sit on their hands when a call went out for volunteers to fill the vacant position.

 

[/quote]

The same could be said for the moderators who sat on their hands when the past Mod was being totally racist. I don't remember a rush to delete his rant.

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Russethouse wrote,

eBaynut, The deleted post was both racist and

offensive, please re read the Code of Conduct. It has nothing to do with the

erosion of free speech; nothing so grandiose. It has to do with keeping the

forum running smoothly within the Code of Conduct .

And FYI personally I am getting very tired of

the digs at a past moderator, when given the opportunity the most vociferous

critics decided to sit on their hands when a call went out for volunteers to

fill the vacant position.

  

 

You and I and anyone (most likely about two people) who read my post  will

know it was neither racist or offensive, it just did not agree with your, or the

general view of the mods on this forum. You can be as tired as you want of digs

at a past moderator, but he at least allowed other points of view to be

expressed without hitting the delete button. As I have previously stated, I go

to great trouble to make sure anything I post is within the law. I neither

mentioned a race, or religion, if you choose to insert one where I had stated

neither, then that implies more about you then me.

Anyway as this thread is about the EU, and immigration is a big issue in that

debate, what do you think of the headlines on all the news channels in the UK

regarding Rotherham yesterday and the huge cover up which went on for years??

Still what does Rotherham matter if you live in the S of E ?  Well, similar

events have taken place a bit closer to home in Oxford.  When do you wake up to

this, when its on your boundary, and then I guess you would just close your

curtains!!

 

 

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Ebaynut said "Anyway as this thread is about the EU, and immigration is a big issue in that debate, what do you think of the headlines on all the news channels in the UK regarding Rotherham yesterday and the huge cover up which went on for years??"

In what way are the people convicted of sexual assault relevant to a thread about EU and EU immigration, which is about the free movement of EU workers? As far as I can tell they were UK citizens and not citizens of any other member state. I do agree with you however that some people don't understand the difference.
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Lindal wrote,

 

Ebaynut said "Anyway as this thread is about

the EU, and immigration is a big issue in that debate, what do you think of the

headlines on all the news channels in the UK regarding Rotherham yesterday and

the huge cover up which went on for years??"

In what way are the people

convicted of sexual assault relevant to a thread about EU and EU immigration,

which is about the free movement of EU workers? As far as I can tell they were

UK citizens and not citizens of any other member state. I do agree with you

however that some people don't understand the difference.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your question Lindal, which I am

more than happy to answer, as it appears your knowledge is somewhat lacking on

this subject.

 

When the UK exits the EU later this year, it

will be able to negotiate a new trade deal with the EU.  The UK is not Norway or

Switzerland, and is in a far better position to get what we want. The UK

is
 the success of Europe at the moment, ( we did not join the euro) so we

will be able to dictate the terms. One of these will be the ability to control

our borders. We will still be able to let people from the EU enter, but on our

terms, not theirs.

I would hope maybe something like a five year

work permit would be issued to those coming to the UK to work, one of the terms

of course would be that is they were in anyway to break any UK laws, their

permit would be revoked and they would be deported.

There of course would be a fee for the permit, which would pay for tighter border control around the UK.

 

It would then follow that it would be unfair

to apply these rules just to EU citizens, so it would apply to everyone entering

the UK to live. So immigration from anywhere is important in the

debate over the EU.

 

Then the perpetrators of the vile acts in

Rotherham could be deported to their home country. FYI, those

guilty of the crime of rape of underage children hold duel nationality, so are

only UK citizens on paper, they are no more English then Lewis Hamilton

is.

 

But joy of joys today when I see that Theresa

May is going to change the law which allows the UK to expel terrorists to their

home country to also to apply to people who commit other crimes, rape being one,

with a view to removing those disgusting vile scum in the Rotherham case back to

their home country.

 

The Rotherham case was a racist case, as the

girls who were abused were described by the men who carried out the sex acts as

‘white scum’

Come on Linda, tell me, do you think it is

wrong for Theresa May to do this?? Do you support the Pakistani Rotherham rapists

in any way??
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 I have to admit I have not hung onto every word of the Rotherham case but weren't many/most of these men born in the UK ? I know the Rotherham men are being deported after their sentence. And for every criminal you want to export I bet there are ten people who we would be proud to call British.

But at which point do people who come here to live, become British. Are their children British ? If they are not, then what are they ? And before you answer I suggest you check your ancestry because my guess is that the majority of people who happily consider themselves British have got foreign ancestors somewhere along the line.

As for your view of coming like out, I'm sorry but like others you are guessing, we don't know what will happen...you may like to think that we are in such a great position, but other countries may see it differently, in addition new trade agreements could take many years to finalise.....I'm undecided but some of the guesses from the 'out' side seem to be bathed in a rather rosy glow.....

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I'm well aware of what your position is on immigration and how you adopt your own definition of 'British', Ebaynut, but thanks for clarifying it for the benefit of others.

You see, I think many of the people who are currently undecided are genuinely thinking through what the implications are of an out vote..but I shouldn't think many of them share you view of eutopia, and would be horrified to think that the EU could be used as an excuse to impose an apartheid agenda in Britain. I'm sure your position will clarify things for them.

Lets be clear, leaving the EU will only enable the UK to control immigration from EU countries and only then if it doesn't sign up to the EEA. The UK is currently able to control immigration from other countries in whatever way it wishes, and the fact that it chooses not to do it in the way you wish, is nothing to do with EU membership. Now whether you think that exiting the EU will somehow allow the anti immigration issue to be more acceptable, or will pave the way for a more right wing approach to politics in general I don't know..I know some people seem to think it will enable us to move to the left more and become allies with Russia. Personally I think both views belong in the land of make believe.

As to my thoughts on those convicted in Rotherham, I feel exactly the same about them as I do about any other convicted sex offender, including the white ex servicemen who was convicted of similar offences a couple of days after. It's a terrible crime, I'm glad the offenders were caught and I'm glad they are being punished.
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How does one judge nationality?

It would not have made one iota of difference if I had taken french nationality and I could have, but I am not french and never will be.

My way of looking at the world is mid channel now, and I hate the thought of my having done it for some sort 'convenience' to 'me', and what a hypocrite I would have been.

My kids were born in France and they are not french either.

What do they say, a dog born in a stable is still a dog!

And so I get irritated, nay angry about people being called 'french' or 'british' when their way of looking at the world is not in any way like that of the people of that country. The french call it republican values, no idea what term I would use for the UK, is there one? But whatever, it is should be along similar lines and no bowing to alternative values that take us backwards, because 'us' moving forwards took centuries, we need to keep moving forwards and never backwards.

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Read a report yesterday - which said the largest bloc of immigrants came from India (45K possibly??), then China ... and other countries - the first EU country of any significance, and I think at least 5th down the list, was Spain - whose total was a pittance compared with those from India and China ...

Thus, coming out of the EU would not stop the non-EU's arriving.  So all rather pointless discussing it.  Within reason, not being a Schengen country - we already have control of our borders - the reason why I have to show my passport when I return - so it  is surely up to the UK to police it properly, rather than call for an EU exit just because they want to protect their borders.

There are wider, and possibly more important issues than that of immigration, IMHO.

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As I see it we have a pretty good idea of what things will be like if we stay in (the status quo plus Cameron's concessions. What happens if we leave does seem to be much harder to determine. Depending on which member of the "leave" side you listen to there is a wide choice of options. Some of them seem to me to be extremely optimistic. I really don't see the EU making a lot of concessions if we leave and I am sure that for every concession they make they will want one back in return. That is the way that negotiations tend to work in the real world.

There is no credible evidence that the UK loses money by having EU immigrant workers here. Any figures I have seen indicate the vast majority are paying UK taxes and although some are receiving in-work benefits that should cease as the new concessions come into force.

Immigration from non-EU countries is as has been already stated not affected by or EU membership so no real change on that front.

As for our relationship with the USA I for one would not want the UK to get closer  to  a USA led by Trump, a man whose politics seem to be much more extreme than those of any UK party even including UKIP

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I'm wondering where we might have deported Jimmy Savile and Stuart Hall to. Or the numerous Roman Catholic priests found guilty of child abuse. Or Adam Johnson. Or former UKP regional chairman Peter Entwistle?

I suppose we could deport Rolf Harris......

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I would not spend a penny piece on child molesters. They have forfeited human rights, and if they were starved to death I would not bat an eyelid.......... because those that have been abused have a life sentence that many never get over. I would really rather any money was spent on the victims and for once try and truly help them.

However these days, the molesters/monsters seem to have more going for them than the victims, and would never be deported even if there was somewhere for them to be sent and I cannot think of anywhere bad enough at the moment anyway. Maybe into daesh territory!

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Well-written article, Norman, though I am not sure how you manage to put a link to the FT.  Whenever I have tried, it's never successful as there is apparently some sort of subscription needed.

Perhaps you are the owner of Barreltown and you need constant access to check whether the price of barrels is up or down?

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For those that are struggling with the idea of what being British is, perhaps this list may help. Perhaps we should deport anyone who doesn't score more than 50%.

What it's like to be British!!

• Worrying you’ve accidentally packed 3 kilos of cocaine and a dead goat as you stroll through “Nothing to declare”

• Being unable to stand and leave without first saying “right”

• Not hearing someone for the third time, so just laughing and hoping for the best

• Saying “anywhere here’s fine” when the taxi’s directly outside your front door

• Being sure to start touching your bag 15 minutes before your station, so the person in the aisle seat is fully prepared for your exit

• Repeatedly pressing the door button on the train before it’s illuminated, to assure your fellow commuters you have the situation in hand

• Having someone sit next to you on the train, meaning you’ll have to eat your crisps at home

• The huge sense of relief after your perfectly valid train ticket is accepted by the inspector

• The horror of someone you only half know saying: “Oh I’m getting that train too”

• “Sorry, is anyone sitting here?” – Translation: Unless this is a person who looks remarkably like a bag, I suggest you move it

• Loudly tapping your fingers at the cashpoint, to assure the queue that you’ve asked for money and the wait is out of your hands

• Looking away so violently as someone nearby enters their PIN that you accidentally dislocate your neck

• Waiting for permission to leave after paying for something with the exact change

• Saying hello to a friend in the supermarket, then creeping around like a burglar to avoid seeing them again

• Watching with quiet sorrow as you receive a different haircut to the one you requested

• Being unable to pay for something with the exact change without saying “I think that’s right”

• Overtaking someone on foot and having to keep up the uncomfortably fast pace until safely over the horizon

• Being unable to turn and walk in the opposite direction without first taking out your phone and frowning at it

• Deeming it necessary to do a little jog over zebra crossings, while throwing in an apologetic mini wave

• Punishing people who don’t say thank you by saying “you’re welcome” as quietly as possible

• The overwhelming sorrow of finding a cup of tea you forgot about

• Turning down a cup of tea for no reason and instantly knowing you’ve made a terrible, terrible mistake

• Suddenly remembering your tea and necking it like a massive, lukewarm shot

• Realising you’ve got about fifty grand’s worth of plastic bags under your kitchen sink

• “You’ll have to excuse the mess” – Translation: I’ve spent seven hours tidying in preparation for your visit

• Indicating that you want the last roast potato by trying to force everyone else to take it

• “I’m off to bed” – Translation: “I’m off to stare at my phone in another part of the house”

• Mishearing somebody’s name on the second time of asking, meaning you must now avoid them forever

• Leaving it too late to correct someone, meaning you must live with your new name forever

• Running out of ways to say thanks when a succession of doors are held for you, having already deployed ‘cheers’, ‘ta’ and ‘nice one’

• Staring at your phone in silent horror until the unknown number stops ringing

• Hearing a recording of your own voice and deciding it’s perhaps best never to speak again

• The relief when someone doesn’t answer their phone within three rings and you can hang up

• Filming an entire fireworks display on your phone, knowing full well you’ll never, ever watch it again"
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There is one missed that affects 'me' and that is -

Getting into the passenger seat in my right hand drive car when I am on my own.  So I cover by raking through the glove box. Doesn't stop me feeling like a pillock though! 

Haven't done it in a while.........[:)]

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