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No 'as you were' in Spain and Europe?


woolybanana
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Exactly. The hypocrite Farage who has one of the worst voting records in the EU parliament started by commenting on Juncker's attendance went on to complain that the EU didn't do the very sort of thing he is always complaining about them doing, then went on to conflate the Catalan situation with Brexit which is quite irrelevant. A masterpiece of emotive bluster which unfortunately seems to have pulled the wool over some peoples' eyes.

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Get it right Mr(s) Nut

Classical liberalism is a political philosophy which holds that the most important value is individual liberty. ...

Neoliberalism is more about laissez faire economics, so economically it is very similar to classical liberalism. Neoliberalism is like a modern take on classical liberalism; but it focuses on the markets.

Being a mental disorder - perhaps more like being very selfish.

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Nomoss - thanks for that info.   So on that principle of 'remove from own area' - they will supposedly feel no 'kinship' with the people they are 'policing'.

Hmmm - now what does that say about the eu army ?   Where are the conscripts from each country likely to be trained, and posted ?   Because the eu army is well on the way;  long time planning and now the UK is leaving the eu then the likes of Verstiwotsits, and drunker et al will not be held back any longer.   The UK was always regarded as a 'barrier' to all their integration plans - the ever-closer union super-state.

I'm very glad mention was made of the 'status quo';  those so in favour of remaining never seemed to be able to look further than the end of their own noses and contemplate the future eu in 20 years time.  It was ignored, or the UK was supposed to 'lead from the front' or 'use influence within' - which totally ignored the fact that the UK was out-voted on so many occasions there was absolutely no way the UK was ever have been ALLOWED to use influence or lead from inside.  The 'status quo' was not an option - but seldom was that addressed by the remainers.

That's a side issue - sorry.

But it was always one of my concerns about the eu army;  where would they be trained - and seeing what's happened in Spain -

Now imagine for yourselves -

an eu army called in - comprising soldiers from Greece, Germany, Poland - NONE from Spain.

We think the scenes on Sunday were bad; and those were Spanish against Spanish.

Now imagine 'foreign' soldiers - using the same force on Spanish people.

Doesn't that worry anyone ?

Chessie

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[quote user="Pommier"]This seemed a good

explanation

https://www.facebook.com/scientistsforeu/videos/1160769614025046/[/quote]

That explanation sounds like a whitewashing exercise to me. I don't think it is

necessary to wait for a court to rule before one decides that State police

forces have behaved in a brutal way. It was typical of the forces of a thinly

disguised fascist state.

Franco continued to punish the Catalans for their support of the Republicans by

killings and purges for long after the Civil War, and regarded them as inferior

to Castilians. That attitude seems to have persisted among his nominated

successors.

I was told in the 1980's that during the Franco era a few years previously, an

old man speaking Catalan in a bar could have been put in jail for the night,

even though he couldn't speak any other language, and recently a lady I was

talking with in Gerona province told me that people had been quietly shot for

this offence at that time.

In the late 1980's, when speaking Catalan began to become more common, I

noticed that the employees of one of my customers were speaking Catalan, rather

than the Castilan they were previously using, When I asked him about it he said

he couldn't understand it, as Catalan was the language of the servants when he

was young.

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[quote user="chessie"]Nomoss - thanks for that info.   So on that principle of 'remove from own area' - they will supposedly feel no 'kinship' with the people they are 'policing'. ........................

[/quote]

You will find that a similar principle is followed in France, which you can verify with any Policier National or Gendarme you know well enough.

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Agreed. Think of the federal army of the USA. Not all states are so stupid as to do what the army of the USA has done.

However Little Britain will be able to do nothing. Within the EU they will be a stronger voice.

I appreciate that most on here are into their money giving them a "good" life so don't give a damn, (sorry to the few) but surely Britain in the EU can have a more important input than outside.

However, if leaving results in us becoming another state of the USA then *** help us because that will be the consequence - and a poor one at that.

Almighty powerful USA will eventually ( perhaps not in our lifetimes) become minor compared to the emerging countries.

The best thing to happen is that the UN will move its headquarters from the USA. They won't like that because its very profitable for them . As were the wars they created in the middle east and northern africa. (They lost out in Vietnam though).

Reconstruction made massive profits for them, including for some Republican USA politicians.

So - yes - I disagree with a EU army.

Nb the UN needs to change so that the USA and other Security council members can't veto sensible UN resolutions. - just look at how Israel and the West have been allowed to stealthily oppress the Palestinians and Muslins in general because of a guilty complex after WW2. Right wing India aren't much better I must admit.

Rant over.

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Excuse me - can understand your rant - but must pull you up on a point or two, please, if you don't mind.

Do NOT refer to the UK as 'little england' - it demeans you - rather than the UK.

Many of us Brits living here in France did vote 'leave' -; on the understanding that it might affect us adversely but for many there are deep concerns about the future direction of the eu.

The UK was never really a 'leading voice' within the eu;  there was a survey recently which showed that 70% of our new laws came from the eu;  and that many montions proposed by the UK - figure of 72 mentioned - ALL were out-voted.   The UK was never regarded by either France or Germany as a 'player';  and the remaining little european countries took their lead from the Big 2.

We're getting away from the original post, which is a shame.   We've discussed Brexit many times, and if you'd like to continue then maybe we need a new thread.   But, buddy, can I presume you're a lovely American....and maybe don't quite understand the history of the UK and the eu.   Please remember that when the UK was taken into the 'common market' - it destroyed our fishing communities, we were told to cut ties with the Commonwealth -

and were promised 'no loss of sovereignty'.

The PM who lied to the voters about that act, and admitted 30 years later to blatant lying to the voters - has been regarded as one of the biggest traitors in UK history by many of us.

Happy to discuss further - but start a new thread, please.

Regards - Chessie.

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richard51 referred to "Little Britain", not "little england", which I took to mean a small country which is one of those "remaining little european countries" you referred to. They may have the third largest population, but it includes a large number of non-Europeans.

I agree that the UK was never a leading voice in the EU. I would go further and say that the UK has never really been IN the EU.

The UK were reluctantly accepted into the EU by some countries, don't use the Euro, didn't join Schengen, drive on the opposite side of the road, tend not to speak foreign languages, don't understand "foreigners", and complain they get less out than they put in, which shows that, above all, Brits have never really understood or accepted the founding principles of the EU as set out in the Treaty of Rome. Chiefly because these were not explained when they were conned into voting to join. It's amazing they weren't conned into voting to stay in.

I believe that the UK's leaving the EU will eventually be beneficial to all concerned. Britain has a different history and Brits simply think differently from most Europeans.

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I have always been of the opinion that the reason we were lied to about the 'common market' all those years ago, was because those who wanted to set up the EU had something on Ted Heath, which he did not want to become public knowledge, we all now know what team he batted for, which was of course against the law in those days, but was the Westminster paedophile ring a fact, which is now only just coming out, so to speak?

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Off post a bit, but I still CANNOT understand why anyone who lives or has a place in France (or Spain or indeed anywhere else in Europe, though this is French forum so presume we all have an interest in France) voted FOR Brexit. 

I also take umbrage in the use of the words "many" and "most" ... I might be English, and yes, I think like a Brit quite often, but I am also European, and have been since we first joined - I'd been coming to France before then, and joining the EU just made it all much easier. 

They'll be quite a few regretting their vote to leave when they find out just how difficult it could become to travel here to their maison secondaire ... and I met many of those this weekend as I returned from scattering my father's ashes ... they all think that life will continue as before .... and they have the shortest of memories, me thinks.

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LOL I always wished the UK away from it and the more federal it became the more I loathed it.

I do not know what living in France has to do with the EU, the french are remarkably good at ignoring EU rules and laws until it suits them. And I wish that the UK had done the same.

France is France, and even if the EU folds, will still be France.

And remember when we moved we HAD TO GET ID cards and all paperwork translated and all our goods and furniture that we had delivered from the UK had to be listed, translated, signed off by the french consulate in the UK and then the Douane in France.

That was OK, people still move, even with hoops to jump through.

My loathing of the EU continues. And Macron wanting it even more Federal..........[:@]

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[quote user="Judith"]Off post a bit, but I still CANNOT understand why anyone who lives or has a place in France (or Spain or indeed anywhere else in Europe, though this is French forum so presume we all have an interest in France) voted FOR Brexit.

I also take umbrage in the use of the words "many" and "most" ... I might be English, and yes, I think like a Brit quite often, but I am also European, and have been since we first joined - I'd been coming to France before then, and joining the EU just made it all much easier. 

They'll be quite a few regretting their vote to leave when they find out just how difficult it could become to travel here to their maison secondaire ... and I met many of those this weekend as I returned from scattering my father's ashes ... they all think that life will continue as before .... and they have the shortest of memories, me thinks.

[/quote]

I didn't vote for Brexit as I was not allowed to vote, but I might well have done so.

I left the UK permanently in 1962 and travelled extensively in Europe, well before the UK joined the EU, without encountering any problems. I certainly did not need a visa for any European countries until I reached Yugoslavia, where a visa was issued at the border post within a few minutes.

I also lived and worked in Spain well before they joined the EU. The formalities for this were no more than those currently required for permanent residence in France, simply proof of adequate means of support for myself and family, plus proof of good character.

You sound as if you would be pleased if people were to have problems travelling to and owning property in France, but there is absolutely no reason why the French governmant would want to penalise visitors to the country.

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  • 2 years later...
[quote user="richard51"]Its interesting what peoples comments were 2 years ago.

NB Catalonia is still in Europe.[/quote]

Quite. I agree with you for once.

I completely changed my mind on Brexit after seeing the EU's reaction, and, yes, realising how involved the UK has become in something they don't support - an EU superstate.

The UK was never at ease, nor accepted, in Europe, and I believe has a better future outside.

I can only hope that countries honour their commitments regarding pensions, health care, and those who moved there, which were in place when we came here.

I don't think this contradicts my wish to live in France, I like it here, but don't want to be involved, nor to "integrate". I have invested my savings here, and if I eventually find I don't like it here any longer, I can go elsewhere.

I have lived in enough different countries not to see it as essential that I am "integrated" nor involved in their external relations.

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Well said nomoss, we have a holiday home in France at which we spend a lot of time, more than the regulations at this time really allow. if Brexit makes that difficult so be it we'll have to find somewhere else to spend our leisure time.
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Well I am a BNP type, had an account with them since 1981! Don't rate them really, but we still have an account.

And re voters, well, since when do we bow to the losers in any election in our system. I am obviously horribly ignorant about this, because I really believed that first past the post won.... and took office or what ever the voters choice was. 

And I am sick to death of, on the rare occasions I watch the news, to see people saying that Boris is acting like a child. All I can say is that how do they not think that they are even worse and I personally find them reprehensible and contradictory, 'trying on' the 'grown up' argument, I believe in democracy and ignoring democracy in action.

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