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Churchill or Chamberlain?


NormanH
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Whilst no fan of Boris (far from it), I have to be fair and admit that, in this instance, most countries in the West had acted wrongly and in utter ignorance.

Moreover, whether through arrogance or sheer disregard of facts, we thought we had the "science" and took no advice or observation of how some Asian countries like Taiwan and South Korea were dealing with the crisis and dealing with it well enough to limit deaths and kept their economies going.

BTW, I heard Macron in his speech where he apologised to his nation and, again last night, giving honest reasons but not excuses for his mistakes.

Would at least be something if Johnson and his government would have the humility to say, sorry, we messed up.  Even this afternoon, I heard Hancock blame, first of all the virus and then PPE providers for the 10 000+ deaths in old peoples' homes and other care establishments.  Just where does the buck passing stop?

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Sorry for not letting anyone else get a word in edgewise but Norman, please just cast your eye over this:

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/may/19/uk-coronavirus-live-latest-updates[/url]

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Interesting to think that Johnson sat there all on his own and made all the decisions, I'm always amused that the anti brigade or momentum supporters only scour the press for bad news stories.๐Ÿ‘Ž๐Ÿ‘Ž
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Of course, he didn't make all the decisions but as the Prime Minister (first among equals) he has to shoulder the burden and take the responsibility.

That's what happens in most organisations.  Anything goes wrong and it's the boss what cops it, right?

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Mint Wrote: "That's what happens in most organisations. Anything goes wrong and it's the boss what cops it, right?"

Well mint, I for my sins spent most of my working life being employed by American organisations, the normal procedure when something went wrong was to fire the "Janitor". Indeed one occasion I was the "janitor" and being English and freelance was horrified, comes the end of the week when I was leaving, my immediate boss said; "Hey Nick it's been great working with you, hope to see you on the next project". Boris ma not be perfect, far from it, but thank dog we didn't have to rely on Corbyn, Abbott and co or the Limp Dems. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
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Thanks for that Norman - all of Bonzos (well some of them) failings in one place.

Inexcusables:

Missing COBRA meetings

Lies over PPE

Leaving seriously ill patients in care homes to die - and let's face it perhaps most of us could be not too far off the happy farm

Not joining in with the EU procurement and then giving the adult version of 'I left my homework on the bus' excuse and forgetting the meetings that had been attended

Not proceeding with the ventilator procurement - what if there is a second coming of the virus - especially seeing the scenes at the beaches and beauty spots in England yesterday - but there again the care homes now have plenty of empty beds for a bit more euthenising of the old that the NHS will not have to deal with

I suppose the only good thing you can say about Bonzo is that he does try to replace the population that is lost.

As for how others would have dealt with it you cannot say. I remember being told by a fire officer that when disaster strikes those that you thought would run away become the heroes and those you thought would be the heroes run away.

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Another inexcusable was to let Cheltenham races go ahead at a time that it was obvious that this virus was going to spread. When the decision to go ahead with Cheltenham was made we in France were about to start lockdown!
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Yes, minnie, I remember that.  Well over 70 thousand attended each day over the 3 days.  I have read that there were several cases with postcodes near Cheltenham.

Also, to abandon testing around March 12.....sheer lunacy!  Plus open frontiers to people coming in from all round the world, untested, untracked, unquarantined.

Then the lockdown was nothing like ours.  To begin with, people could exercise outdoors for as long as they liked and a ridiculously low fine like 30 quid if you flouted the rules.

I can't tell you how difficult I found going outdoors for only 1 hour and only 1 km from the house.  By week 4, I was feeling quite depressed.  I had to keep reminding myself that we were at least all alive and that staying in was a small price to pay.

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I so agree Mint. We normally walk 4 or 5 kms daily and have done for more than 10 years..I photocopied the form, including our signature, so all I had to do was date and time really. I felt a real sense of freedom when we didn't have to do that any more.....strange really. However we managed to do loads in the garden during lockdown without wondering if anyone was going to call!
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[quote user="woolybanana"]Winston was not much regarded to start with. Give Boris time to make mistakes.[/quote]

You really are unbelievable. How much leeway are you going to allow the incapable fool to make before even you realise that he is way, way out of his depth. I admire your faith, you would make a good dog.
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[quote user="minnie"]I so agree Mint. We normally walk 4 or 5 kms daily and have done for more than 10 years..I photocopied the form, including our signature, so all I had to do was date and time really. I felt a real sense of freedom when we didn't have to do that any more.....strange really. However we managed to do loads in the garden during lockdown without wondering if anyone was going to call![/quote]

Oh, minnie, I too loved that sense of freedom even though, here in our little village, we mostly have gardens and open spaces.  Yes, it was strange, to have that "real sense of freedom" as you have so aptly called it[:D]

It was raining here all that day.  But I just HAD to go out twice and walked a little way, much less than 1 km but, no paperwork and no fear of being challenged........bliss......

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BritinBretagne your post has confused me.

Are you in France, well La Belle Bretagne, or the UK?

Here in England, it is not perfect by any means, but certainly liveable, and that is what I had hoped for.

I cannot think of any point when living in France or the UK, where me 'soap box Idun' would not have something  to say about government decisions, because usually there is, along with something 'right', there is something 'wrong' too. I don't really expect anything different.

That you think badly of Boris, is evident, but I have thought badly of many a 'leader', and Boris is not the worst I have lived through.

I thank my lucky stars that Corbyn or the Lib Dems are not dealing with this at the moment.

So at the moment, all is working as it should here, for me and those I know, in this very odd world we now live in.

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Well, the de facto Prime Minister has said that he is not resigning.

Watched the Covid briefing yesterday and made me squirm. The minister defending the PM whilst at least Jennie Harries the health advisor spoke in a way and a tone that conveyed exactly what she thought of the PM.

And today more revelations about the PMs outings (all this reminds me of the book A Diary of a Nobody) Will he have to go?

All this must have his puppet, Doris, quaking in his boots, and thinking about A Diary of a Nobody, worried that he will make Charles Pooter look super intelligent.

But still, when the PM was running Vote Leave a few lies seemed to do the trick....ยฃ350M for the NHS per week, oh how they must have laughed at that one when they thought it up.

When the puppetmaster PM Cummings goes (will he) then perhaps, the real Doris will be exposed. But to give him the benefit of the doubt he might prove to be an excellent PM and at the same time Lord Lucan win 'I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here' and Shergar win the Grand National.

Hopefully, Doris is watching episodes of 'Yes Prime Minister' to find out how it is done.
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Nick, the discussion was about Chamberlain and Churchill and Doris, not the wider political spectrum, so why would I mention Kinnock????

So the only thing that you can take from my comments is that I do not think Doris has what it takes to be PM, nor can it be ascertained as to what my political leanings are, perhaps your crystal ball has some dust on it.
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No dust at all Paul, just I did learn to read between the lines having spent many years as a Labour party member and union negotiator, until the momentum mob took over when I tore my card up. I did learn to have some idea of peoples intentions when they keep on the same dialogue. Going back to the bus is now old hat, and to be fair it did say could not would.
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The sinister bunch of extreme leftists backing Jeremy Corbyn who infiltrated the Labour Party and have, to a large extent taken it over. Since the election they have carried on their campaign of Statist Cubanisation of the UK via the Unions, particularly the teachers.

Getting rid of Momentum and their fellow travellers will be difficult as they destroy from within like termites, rig elections and use threats and worse to get their way. Starmer has a hell of a job on his hands. First thing to do is to get rid of the tea lady Whomis Shadow Education Secretary.
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And there was me thinking it was Blair who is an abomination to me along with his horrific cronies.

So stating that it will probably not surprise anyone that I could literally SCREAM when I see that hateful man on tv now. How DARE he say anything to anyone, beyond me. I loathe and detest him, and I am so wound up by the thought of him I wish I had some yeast in to make some bread that I could bash about.

All this ofcourse is just my opinion, but I never liked Thatcher and she was awful, but IMO he and his minions ruined the UK.

I am sure that he must have done something 'decent' because everyone does something decent at one point, but that thing or things will never in my mind counter the bad.

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And now to Corbyn, well, he never seemed to get past the views of say a teenager, full of ideas most of which are not viable in the real world.

So sadly made sense that the very young voted for Corbyn and made him leader, a great pity really and I am so glad that he is not PM.

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The sad thing is that Corbyn is probably the most decent of the lot in human terms, whilst being of no use at all to the country as either Prime Minister or leader of the opposition.Completely unelectable outside the far left.

As for Cummings and Johnson, it is sad that so many people refuse to look into their backgrounds to see how they have got where they are, and how they have got us where we are.

Cummings is a deranged professor with ideas coming out of his head left, right and centre - well, only right now. He had upset people in Brussels with his "I'm always right" attitude and his complete lack of personality. As a result, they slighted him instead of elevating him to the position he felt he deserved. This left him with a bitter hatred of all things Europe and a determination to show them what's what. Nothing at all to do with what might be best for Britain.

Meanwhile, Boris had the sort of history that should have ensured that he could never take political office at any level, let alone become PM. Dishonest, untrustworthy, unfaithful - you name it. But he, too, had a mission. He believed it was his entitlement to climb to the top of the tree, again regardless of what might be right for his country.

Both Cummings and Johnson had problems. For all his genius, Cummings would never get direct political power due to his inability to connect with voters. He needed a popular face, a spokesman, who would put ambition before principle and provide an outlet for his schemes. Despite - or perhaps because of - his bumbling manner, Johnson, a seasoned debater, was considered by many to have an engaging personality but he lacked the ability to plan and implement an effective campaign. They were exactly what each other was looking for.

Make no mistake, Cummings is extremely clever, in a very dangerous way. If you wade through his interminable blogs, filled with theories, formulae and complex algorithms, you can see how easily his ideas would have fooled the average right wing MP - they may not have understood or even read half of what Cummings had written - who does? - but would see it as justification for their own prejudices.

But where Cummings was really clever was in recognising that neither detailed economic argument nor pages of mad science would appeal to the masses. For them, the message had to be short and catchy. "Take back control", "Get Brexit done". Messages that would easily be taken on board by the media, including the right wing press and social media which Cummings studies with his usual zeal.

In 2016 he was still concerned that the Remain camp had the better real case and he knew the Brexit vote would go down to the wire. Here he was helped by Corbyn's lack of credibility. Had a Keir Starmer been Labour leader in 2016, Brexit would not have happened. And when it came to the General Election, Corbyn was all too easy to demonise, with the gleeful support of the Tory papers.

Boris, a one time Remainer, was willing to do or say anything which would get him to, and keep him at, the top. Lie low when Cummings thought unguarded utterances from his mouthpiece would be unhelpful, stick to the script when in front of a camera.

But the time has to come when even the Tory MPs who have supported Boris and his Rasputin controller because they owe their seats to them, will have had enough of being impotent pawns, endorsing government policy decided by this unelected creature who treats everyone with contempt. Whether Cummings has over-stepped the mark with his recent hypocritical behaviour remains to be seen.

Well, that's just my take on it. :)
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