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Ken
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Now, now, Ken,

You know full well

that when I referred to ‘countrymen’ I was referring to all

British citizens not just the ones within the United Kingdom. Global

Britain if you like.

I suspect when this

all pans out it will go one of two ways. Either things will continue

as they have been with little deals being done under the table until

the UK is back in the EU in all but name. Or the calls for

independence will grow louder, not just from Scotland but Northern

Ireland, and all the overseas territories ( Wales I don’t know

about ). In a way Brexit has set a precedent. Why should Scottish

sovereignty be any different from British sovereignty. Why should

Westminster interfere in Anguilla's affairs. I don’t know how this

will pan out and neither do you. As I said I truly hope I’m wrong

and Britain prospers. In the meantime I will do what I can to regain

the rights I have lost and continue to commiserate and support those

whose lives have been turned upside down through no fault of their

own.

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I think the point is that the referendum was about Britain and the people living there. The referendum didn't ask should Brits all over the world leave the E.U. An absurdity! It asked the people living in Britain; should Britain leave the E.U. It concerns people living there, not you and I. though you almost certainly won't agree. We chose to leave the U.K. I don't believe I have any right to determine its future; that's for the people living there and they chose, in my view, absolutely correctly.

With regard your two points. I think, inevitably, the U.K. and the E.U. will slowly resolve their differences. They have to. Whether that is 'under the table' deals or not. I do not agree that the U.K. in the foreseeable future, or even distant future, will be part, in name or otherwise, of the EU.

Why you should digress into Scottish and Irish sovereignty I don't know. If England were left as the sole country in the British Isles outside of the E.U I believe it would remain so. What Scotland and Ireland end up as is their affair should they have a referendum that like the E.U. one was binding. (incidentally the last Scottish one was but they continue to whinge, or at least the SNP does!))

I feel absolutely confident that Britain will prosper. The world, despite all its troubles revolves around trade and money and Britain is an important member. Protectionism doesn't really work and simply leads to the squabbles that are happening between the E.U. and the U.K. The dust will settle!
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If I may politely correct you. The actual referendum question was " Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union" Had the implementation of the result only affected those living in the United Kingdom I would have fully agreed with you but it didn't, it affected every British national in the world whether or not they chose to exercise those rights. It very much concerned me as, overnight, I was no longer able to vote in local elections for local issues. No amount of 'extra paperwork' is going to give me that back that right, only adopting a nationality of a European country. But voting is a minor issue and I return to my point on the overseas territories.
Brexit not only resulted in the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from

the European Union, but also of its Overseas Territories Association

(UKOTA) from the rest of the Overseas Countries and Territories

Association. The Falkland Islands economy ( remember them ) relies heavily on fish, of which up to 90

percent is exported to the EU. The Pitcairn Islands, exports one-third of its honey to

the EU and had so far received around 2.4 million euros from the

European Development Fund. Apparently there's a chance the Falkland Islands might turn to Spain for assistance in their squid war whilst the Pitcairn Islands could be put up for sale ( France is apparently interested ). Then there's my old friend Anguilla. Pre Brexit the EU were Anguilla's main source of funding for the rebuilding efforts after hurricane Irma. That funding has now gone. To the north it borders France, to the south the Netherlands. It has no access to postal services, fuel, basic medical services and

educational special needs other than through the facilities located in

the Dutch and French territories. Don't tell me Brexit doesn't affect these people. It affects them more than it is ever going to affect you or I or even, may I suggest, more than it is likely to affect 'your average brit'.

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Antonia

Europe still wants to buy fish from the UK and the Falkland Islands or wherever.

They also want to buy M&S food (The shops in Paris are non stop with peeps buying UK food). Especially the Indian stuff, sandwiches and the biscuits. Yum Yum.

The only people stopping this from happening is a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels under the instructions of Macron and Merkle.

The only losers here are consumers across Europe.

This is not about Europe, it is about the people who run it. Namely France and Germany.

The EU is poisoned to the core.
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I think when it

comes to losers, European consumers fall very far down the list. For

example I wouldn’t worry about the loss of M&S in Paris,

there’s always Subway.

Maybe you are right,

maybe the EU is rotten to the core however I despair at a nation that

will so blithely let it’s citizens become collateral damage just in

order to prove a point.

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I bet there is more tuna in an M&S sandwich than a Subway sandwich.

You might need to google 'tuna subway'. Very interesting.

Regarding your last point....that is why Macron is out of a job next year.,

Macron fights for his position in Europe not for France. France (or French citerzens rather) is/are secondary to his political ambitions of running Europe.

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I'm sorry but the referendum was for those living in the U.K. not all over the world!

Falklands, Anguilla whatever next? The referendum was for British people living in the UK.

The Pitcairn Islands!! For heavens sake! The referendum was for UK. citizens. Brexit may, or may not, affect these people in the way you suggest but the basic premise is that it was for the British people to vote on and decide. If these people want to concern themselves so much with British politics or elections then perhaps they should live there!

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Well as the vast majority of them are British and, as such, have the right of abode in the United Kingdom I suppose they could have all decamped en mass, registered to vote, stayed in a travelodge or something then gone back home but it would have been a bit impractical don't you think?
Might have worked wonders for the local tourism industry though.

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Well, perhaps they should have. Just like you and me; if we wanted to vote we should have gone back to the U.K. You didn't, neither did I. The fact is that only U.K. citizens could vote.

No getting away from it I'm afraid. It was a U.K. vote and, from my point of view, tremendously successful!
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Ken wrote the following post at 29 Jun 2021 18:54:

Well, perhaps they should have. Just like you and me; if we wanted to vote we should have gone back to the U.K. You didn't, neither did I. The fact is that only U.K. citizens could vote.

I am a UK citizen .. it says so on my UK passport.

And, like Antonia, I (and my OH) voted in the referendum.
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Then you, and your O.H. were residents in the U.K. and if correct, Antonia was (is ) too, and so entitled to vote. I, on the other hand, am a resident in France and was not entitled to vote even though I'm a U.K. citizen.

Was there some coherent point to your post?

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Again, with the deepest respect Ken, I think you are misunderstanding UK electoral law. In order

to be eligible to vote a British Citizen only needs to be resident in

the UK for some part of the last fifteen years. Hence my somewhat

flippant comment about Falkland islanders and Anguillians ‘popping

over’ to gain voting rights. A stupid system I think you’ll agree

which is why, as ALBF reminded me, plans are afoot to instigate adult

universal franchise. Hopefully by the time the next EU debate comes

along all interested parties will be able to have a say.

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" I'm sorry but the referendum was for those living in the U.K. not all over the world!"

Ken, why must you talk such rubbish!  The referendum was for all UK citizens still having a vote, and certain others, whose category is not relevant to this comment.  It mattered not where they lived.  I was eligible to vote, as was my husband.  We live in France.  It affects us - daily.  Having to change, or just acquire a titre de séjour, is just one example.  I will not go on, as you do.

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Ken wrote the following post at 29 Jun 2021 20:28:

Then you, and your O.H. were residents in the U.K. and if correct, Antonia was (is ) too, and so entitled to vote. I, on the other hand, am a resident in France and was not entitled to vote even though I'm a U.K. citizen.

Was there some coherent point to your post?

There you go again making wrong assumptions, Ken.

Like Antonia and Judith my OH and I are residents in France .. with cds to prove it ?
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I could well be misunderstanding electoral law but I don't think so. It is disingenuous to suggest being resident in foreign country (and not in the u.k) allows you to vote in the UK. You have said you need to be resident in the U.K. for , at least part of the last 15 years!

I haven't been resident in the uK in that period, hence I can't vote. I stand by what I have said if you are a non resident of the U.K. you cannot vote there.
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Ken,

Please believe me

when I say I have thoroughly enjoyed our sparring over the last

couple of days. It had been a welcome distraction from the gardening.

However in your last two posts you have accused me of being both

disingenuous and engaging in obfuscation. I feel we have reached the

limit on my ability to explain and yours to understand and, rather

than descend further down this rabbit hole, I yield the floor.

Lets

do it again sometime.

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Antonia:

Just returned from a very cold swim and read your post. Whilst submerged I arrived at the same conclusion. I doubt we could ever find common ground regarding the E.U. Unlike some here who simply want to hurl insults it has also been, for me, refreshing to talk to someone without ignorant abuse.

Rule Britannia!!!!

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May I ask an innocent question?  No agenda, no axe to grind, no preconceived notions, no wish to start arguments, not the slightest desire to troll, but simple curiosity....

Why do some people who have no love for the EU and have nothing but derogatory things to say about it, nonetheless OPT voluntarily to live in a country within the EU?

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"I stand by what I have said if you are a non resident of the U.K. you cannot vote there."

https://www.gov.uk/voting-when-abroad :

"You can register as an overseas voter if you:

are a British or eligible Irish citizen

were registered to vote in the UK within the last 15 years (or in some cases, if you were too young to have registered when you left the UK)."

It is true that UK Gov is building a strong reputation for being misleading and or disingenuous, but the above is certainly true. My wife and I no longer have the right to vote in UK elections, having just passed the 15-year limit, but we both voted in the 2016 referendum (guess which way!), 11+ years after emigrating and becoming immigrants in France. It was a faff, having to renew our overseas electoral registration every year.
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