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BIG Thumbs down for new format


Coco
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I personally find that the biggest problem outside of it being so slow is the fact that we seem to have lost the entire history of this Forum. You can only search up to one page. It is such a shame to simply delete and disregard such a wealth of information and years of advise without any regard.
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[quote]I personally find that the biggest problem outside of it being so slow is the fact that we seem to have lost the entire history of this Forum. You can only search up to one page. It is such a shame to...[/quote]

No one deleted and disregarded the archives, they have already said that it was not possible to port them over.  If we as members would like to pay Archant a few thousand pounds (and the rest...) I am sure that they could get a consultant to write a nice new forum that would work on their servers and current system and have the old postings and look like the old one did.

If this is not possible then we have lost the archive , but I am sure that the knowlege of current members will be as freely given as before and in a short time we will have an archive well worth having on this forum .

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BobC - it wasn't really tongue in cheek, the reason is that because of LF's publisher's corporate policy the whole LF site had to be changed as the old system was not compatible with the new, and this included the forum. We (the mods and admin team) looked into what was available and asked for other forum programmes, particularly one which gave users a choice between the old layout and this format, but were told they would not work with the rest of the site.

The forum should adjust itself to your own screen settings, but if somebody has posted a wide picture or web link or similar it can go off the edge of the screen, probably the reason for the scroll bar at the bottom of Opas' screen.

It is a great pity that the archives could not be either transported or stored somewhere we could have accessed them and linked to them, but that's life unfortunately. It may not be too disastrous as things change and a lot of the information was out of date.

The non-working search facility is a known problem with the software (like all such things it only became known to us when the test version was installed, and by that time we were committed to the changeover). These issues are being addressed and gradually solved - the spell checker gave a lot of trouble at the beginning but is now working for most users, so we hope it will all work out soon.

Missing or misplaced posts have been mentioned elsewhere - this happened because of the difference in format between old and new forums, no posts have been lost altogether as far as we know but several have been misplaced and some are floating around, homeless. You could find them using the search, but as that doesn't work properly it's a bit of a hopeless task at present.

More worrying is the fact that some people get things like text formatting, smileys, control panels, display of user names etc and others do not. This is something the developers do need to sort out.

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[quote]My one and only gripe is that the colour blue is not as clear as the old forum printing was. Anyway we could possibly have that nice bold blue colour back again please?[/quote]

I agree Val - this is especially relevant for long posts which tire your eyes out! (well, my eyes anyway) My additional gripes are that despite Broadband, the site can be slow sometimes, and having already lost my no. of postings once before I have had to start all over again!
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[quote]I've tried and I've tried and I've tried. Now I realise why I have always come back to LF when I've visited other Forums. They are all in this style and it is NOT AS GOOD (imho) as the old layout. ...[/quote]

I used to log on to LF at least once a day. Now, 'though I log on at least twice daily, I am no longer motivated to access LF, unless I am looking for an answer - and even then, I am considering the other options - for the first time.

I hate to be negative - and wouldn't be, for the sake of it - but involvement in LF is no longer a pleasure.

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Whatever we think of the site it doesnt really matter. This is the new Living France Forum, it isnt going back to the old format. And quite honestly I dont think the owner cares two hoots.

We will need to get used to it as it is here to stay.

Bob
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"Missing or misplaced posts have been mentioned elsewhere - this happened because of the difference in format between old and new forums, no posts have been lost altogether as far as we know but several have been misplaced and some are floating around, homeless. You could find them using the search, but as that doesn't work properly it's a bit of a hopeless task at present."

Not strictly true Bill.  I replied to Quillan's query about the B&B site in the B&B forum on the old system - it was a long post so I was most annoyed and couldn't be bothered to rewrite it (due to the slowness of this site) when I saw that it had disappeared.  There had also been a reply to it because that particular thread was up to 3 or 4 postings and now it appears as having only one.  There was also nothing contentious in there, so the posts hadn't been removed (as far as I'm aware) by a moderator.

As for the person who said that we shouldn't moan because it's a free site and we could lose it if we do.  Why?  Aren't we allowed to pass opinions that don't please the owners then?  If people are still "moaning" about the site in a few months time I may tend to agree with you.  But in these early stages I would rather call it "commenting" on the new site and surely we are all entitled to do that.  I was rather hoping that I may get a more positive response from mods or admin that the speed problem is an issue that can be overcome, or better still, that there actually WAS an option to revert to the old style if enough people voiced their opinions that they didn't like this new site.  If that is not the case, then after an initial whinge, I agree, there is no point in harping on about it - but I do believe that at this stage we are entitled to air our views.  After that, then I suppose it is a case of "put up or shut up"

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Coco

Was this the post and reply you were referring to?

http://www.livingfrance.com/instantforum/shwmessage.aspx?forumid=17&messageid=25433#bm25435

It is still here, just that it has become detached from the rest of the topic due to the difference in layout between the old and new forums; the new forum doesn't know where to put it.

Comments are welcomed. James is putting all of these issues to the software developers, and I have to say that it is difficult to get them to acknowledge that some users have problems, users are following the developers' recommendations and still getting problems. Speed is just one of these - there is no reason why this should be any slower than any other forum, but of course it often is very slow. Maybe the number of users may be something to do with it - most of the other sites that seem to use this forum software have far fewer members - but that's just my gut feeling, not based on any techie knowledge. The forum software's based on a Microsoft product, asp.net, so it should work; but...

Unfortunately going back to the old system is not possible - we have already investigated this and we are told that it is not possible with the new servers used by Living France and Archant, its publisher.

We are promised that a fix for some of the problems should be available soon, and others should be addressed when the developers issue their newt version of the software.

In the meantime, if there are specific difficulties, please post them on the forum or contact admin, and remember to state such things as the operating system and version you are using, and details of any anti-virus program or firewall used.

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We could boycott buying their magazine - then they (archant) may well sit up and listen - then James could have some good fodder to use in his discussions with The Management!

Should we start a boycott the LF magazine thread - bet this gets pulled by the FA/mods.

Just a thought!

Deby

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[quote]We could boycott buying their magazine - then they (archant) may well sit up and listen - then James could have some good fodder to use in his discussions with The Management! Should we start a boyco...[/quote]

I think it would be better to target the boycott at Microsoft - though that's not easy.

Good point Deby, though I can assure you that FA and mods are just as frustrated as you, if not even more so, by the various problems in what purports to be a state-of-the-art forum program. When we buy a program we expect it to work - but Microsoft thinks otherwise (e.g. Windows XP service pack 2, and ASP.NET which this forum uses).

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[quote]I think it would be better to target the boycott at Microsoft - though that's not easy. Good point Deby, though I can assure you that FA and mods are just as frustrated as you, if not even more so, b...[/quote]

Sorry Will I have to disagree with you blaming MS for this problem.  They did not write the software, another company did.  I used to be a very senior tester and ran a testing department and there is a simple answer, if it does not work in the real world when real people use it it was not written correctly or tested enough.

I have dealt with Linux, UNIX all versions of MS software and everything in between mainframe and handheld and whatever you write it on - if it does not work you always blame it on the platform - not me guv.

Good software works, if a new patch is brought out by MS and your stuff does not work it is your responsibility to sort it fast.  SP2 is not something that suddenly came out of a hat, it has been coming along for ages.

Please point the finger firmly at those responsible - the writers of the forum software. I have not got a soft spot for Bill Gates but in my previous life everything was blamed on him and if it don't work and MS did not write it it aint their fault.

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I also believe that if the new format had been thoroughly tested, it wouldn't have had so many problems. My husband was involved in testing of a software application several years ago and there was a team of about 12 who tested it for several months, reporting corrections that needed to be made, before it was eventually put into practice. I realise that for something like LF the money is simply not there. However, my husband has also set up a forum using some bog-standard thing he picked up off the internet and had had no problems with it. My daughter uses a website forum which was originally set up by a 15 year old girl (that girl is now 19 and the website is still going strong), so good that a very big company tried to close it down! If WORKING forums are available off the web so easily, it is amazing that this one has such appalling problems.

If people are not posting in useful topics, it is probably because it is too much trouble to wait for the page to come up! If people such as myself continue to post, it's because I'm a saddo who is just grabbing at this because it's my only line of communication with francophiles! However, if someone were to set up another website which was more user friendly that existing LF members go to, I would be there like a shot. That doesn't mean TF because I've tried it and don't find it user friendly either.

We have three choices:

Put up with it

Leave the forum

Keep whinging and hope that the format will be changed.

The way I see it, if we leave the forum, we lose out; if we put up with it we are stuck with it and those of us who dislike it continue to lose out; if we keep pointing out the problems it will either be improved or it will cease. Personally, I feel that I'd rather whinge and hope that it will change and risk losing it completely than follow the other options as both the others are no win situations, whereas sticking with it and whinging, it could go one way or another, and meanwhile someone may set up a user friendly forum.

Sorry to sound so unfaithful, but it is the opinions of members of the forum I'm interested in, not the magazine. I buy it occasionally, but magazines are such an expense.
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Jill, it sounds as if we should be unfaithful together

I agree with what you say. If one pays for software it should be tested on all types of computer and operating system and one should get support from the providers.

I can assure you that the admin team have done their fair share of whingeing and pointing out the shortcomings. However this, apparently, is the best forum that will work on the publishers' servers. You should have seen the alternatives (you can, actually, if you wish - just look for forums on other Archant sites like France magazine or the regional papers).

I know what you are saying about other forums; we have one on our Normandy site that was free to download and though it isn't perfect it works.

I'd be interested in what you consider a forum needs to be 'user friendly', particularly bearing in mind what you say about Total France.

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 "Coco

Was this the post and reply you were referring to?

http://www.livingfrance.com/instantforum/shwmessage.aspx?forumid=17&messageid=25433#bm25435

It is still here, just that it has become detached from the rest of the topic due to the difference in layout between the old and new forums; the new forum doesn't know where to put it."

Thanks Bill - yes it was.  I shall now paste it into the original thread.  How did you manage to find it?

"Comments are welcomed. James is putting all of these issues to the software developers, and I have to say that it is difficult to get them to acknowledge that some users have problems, users are following the developers' recommendations and still getting problems. Speed is just one of these - there is no reason why this should be any slower than any other forum, but of course it often is very slow."

And I hope James gives them a damned good b*&^%$*ing - I'm sure it wasn't cheap and LF could be losing members over it.  I know of two people who have told me they are no longer contributing.  The slowness HAS to be down to them.  I find TF faster than this new system and I never had any problems with your own forum Bill - so it's not my computer!

.....and another thing!  When are they going to sort this quote problem?

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When you quote it will only take the first x number of characters from the post you are quoting. This is known by the people who developed the software and they have said that they are working on a update at present that will allow users to select part of the original post to quote, so this should be available when the update is released.
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[quote]I also believe that if the new format had been thoroughly tested, it wouldn't have had so many problems. My husband was involved in testing of a software application several years ago and there was a...[/quote]

Jill,

you post that you don't mind losing the forum if that is what happens if we keep on moaning, but what about those of us who haven't had problems with it?

I may not post that often but that does not mean that I don't visit, read and make use of the site. This new style forum has hardly had time to bed down yet (3 weeks or so?) and as well during this period Forum Admin has been away on holiday. I think that you need to give them chance to put right the gremlins that are affecting yours and others access rather than state that if they don't get it right to your satisfaction then let it close. I happen to like the new layout and as I posted before have had no problems other than the quotes issue.

It might be interesting to have a poll to see the percentage of folks out there that are having problems. Is it a vocal minority or are the majority of you experiencing problems.

Rob

ps After saying that I've just noticed that according to my machine I've only posted once. Now I know I lost all my previous posts when we switched forums, but I have posted a few more than that shown!!

 

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"you post that you don't mind losing the forum if that is what happens if we keep on moaning, but what about those of us who haven't had problems with it?"

There do seem to be a lot of people who are having problems with it though, and there is also the fact that I know of at least 2 people who have left the forum and I have no idea if they are the same as the ones Coco knows about. I know of more who are thinking of doing. I thought of doing myself, but preferred to keep up the contact. I think also that some people who are still posting are posting a lot less than they did previously.

I get by the slowness by having 2 or 3 windows open at the same time, so that the next page of one can be loading while I read another. But it's the disjointedness I really dislike - although it was mentioned early on that they option to do the diversifying tree thread system was available. It could be that people are posting less because they can't see the point in replying to something on page 1 when their reply will be on page 3 or 4 and will mean nothing on its own.

I'm not bothered about the smileys or having the ability to type in capitals or colours or different fonts - we lived without the latter before.

It would just be good to have more flow.

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"they can't see the point in replying to something on page 1 when their reply will be on page 3 or 4 and will mean nothing on its own."

Jill, that's what the quote feature is for - or would be if it worked. We are told this should be sorted out soon though.

All of the other forums I use have this one's 'linear' style rather than the 'threaded' layout of the old forum and I have to say I prefer this and find it flows better - I found the old forum got impossible to follow when user C posted something in between B's reply to A's point, so it looked as if B was replying to C rather than A unless you looked at the post numbers or dates.

But I do agree, it's down to personal preferences and what you are used to.

As far as I know the 'threaded' layout has never been offered with this forum software. Although we did identify some up-to-date programmes that offered a choice between 'linear' and 'threaded' - at least one allowed the user to select which layout they wanted, which would have provided the best of both worlds - none of these would integrate properly with the rest of the site or could be used on these servers.

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