I Don't want to be negative but

[I1]

The new servers seem (mostly) faster, though can on occasions still be slow.

The functionality aspects seem no better (e-mail notifications take you to the 1st page rather than the one the post is on, e-mail swamping on multiple posts to same thread, etc. as raised in many other posts). I have tried reloading and killing off all cookies and cache with no effect (except I’ve had to re-enter all my passwords to pretty well everywhere).

I still cannot format text and still get the occasional errors (e.g. one I got a few moments ago):

Server Error in '/' Application.

Exception of type System.OutOfMemoryException was thrown.

Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.OutOfMemoryException: Exception of type System.OutOfMemoryException was thrown.

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[OutOfMemoryException: Exception of type System.OutOfMemoryException was thrown.]

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.2032; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.2032

[Tim Stephenson (Archant IS)]

[quote]The new servers seem (mostly) faster, though can on occasions still be slow.The functionality aspects seem no better (e-mail notifications take you to the 1st page rather than the one the post is on, ...[/quote]

Because the work to migrate this site has been brought forward, and as there are obviously isn't much time left between now and Christmas, we have had to limit the upgrade to simply moving the forums wholesale across to the new servers.

When this is revisited early next year we will complete the upgrade, and migrate all other aspects of the site across.

At this point we'll also be able to move these forums onto the same forum installation and database as used by our other sites, which doesn't seem to be affected by these problems.

If we can get this done sooner we will, but otherwise please continue to be patient with us until next year.

Regards - and thanks,

[TvcamdaveDave & Sue Lawson]

I hope this also means getting rid of all the unnecessary javascript which is currently limiting what I can access, and NO I will not be buying a new computer just to access via javascript.

[I1]

It may be that some of what you cannot do is related to you not using Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE). If you do use IE, then ignore the rest of this as it is not true in your case. However, I do not use IE on a PC platform and have seen others (e.g. MAC users) say that they are limited in terms of what they can do (e.g. no message formatting). This is because the forum software is “Microsoft Centric” and does not like the idea that you are using anything other than Microsoft software.

Apparently Archant IT has a “Microsoft Only” strategy.

[Mpprh]

Hi

I'm using IE6, but still can't get message formatting. I don't know what I'm missing because I've never seen it, but I get no options as far as smileys, links and images etc go.

Peter

[Ex Forum Admin]

I believe that the next version of the software will address this issue of WYSYWYG editor for other platforms.

The javascript issues could very well be because of Norton etc on your machine and there is a post on this, which is a sticky, in the magazine/website forum.

 

James

[I1]

After 6 of these:

Server Error in '/' Application.

Exception of type System.OutOfMemoryException was thrown.

Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.OutOfMemoryException: Exception of type System.OutOfMemoryException was thrown.

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[OutOfMemoryException: Exception of type System.OutOfMemoryException was thrown.]

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.2032; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.2032

I gave up trying to post. sorry Redcap but through no fault of your own you wont be getting the information I had to post to you (and everybody else) - lets see if this one gets posted ?

[I1]

Subsequently found out that despite getting an error back multiple times, each of the times had actually posted the message - so I then had to go back and delete out all the additional posts.

I returned when the speed improved, but previously whilst it was slow, I got relatively few errors reported. Today I've had loads of these errors being reported (so I am starting to be a bit more negative as its still "hard work") !!!

[Dick Smith]

[quote]It may be that some of what you cannot do is related to you not using Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE). If you do use IE, then ignore the rest of this as it is not true in your case. However, I do n...[/quote]

This seems to be absolutely correct - and its very frustrating (also, if it were a UK government site, illegal!). Most people (from the UK govt down - or up, according to your point of view) are trying to increase, not decrease access. There is also the issue that Micros**t stuff is just plain primitive!

edit - still can't get the quote thing to work properly...

[Nick Trollope]

Dick et al,

The problem is, that IE actually works - it does what it says. I can't comment on the efficacy of other browsers or platforms, as I have not tried them - I have no reason to....

Whilst I despise the power & hold that Microsoft has/wields over us, I can also see why end-users & hence providers stick to MS platforms.

What can one actually DO about it? Complaining ain't any good - who can you complain to? Boycott this forum because it is MS-based? Is that not simply cutting off one's own nose....?

Life in general & MS in particular, stinks.

[I1]

Microsoft does have quite a hold over the computer industry in so far as it has a large market share. However, that in itself is no indication as to their product quality (good or bad). Some people have always use other systems, others are gradually trying and discovering alternative systems.

In the case of browsers, people are starting to switch way from Microsoft of a variety of reasons (functionality, security, etc.). For example, the US Department of Homeland Security has recommended that people do not use Internet Explorer due to its security weaknesses. Despite being included “out-of-the-box” with a very high proportion of computers, IE’s market share is falling (which means that either Windoze based PCs are dropping in popularity or increasing numbers of users are taking action to switch to alternatives).

I personally gave up using IE as my default browser as, clicking on the LF e-mail messages about a post to a thread, about half the time IE would just lock-up. I thus changed to an alternative browser which I find better and basically it works. Everybody makes their own decisions depending on their experience.

Most companies are trying to make their external presentation as open as possible. Present your best image to everybody (even MAC users !!). Most companies cannot control the computers or browsers their prospective customers might use so, to give best impression, they try not to tie themselves into a specific platform. There are many standards and software solutions that allow this to be done successfully and with ease.

It is worth noting that there are two software suppliers in the context of the LF forums; the Microsoft Operating System and middleware systems and the non-Microsoft developed forum software. As forum users we can really only see the system as a whole. Any failings could lie in a variety of places and without detailed internal knowledge of configurations, operations, etc. it is difficult to identify where the problems and limitations lie.

It is a point worth noting that LF (or rather their publishers IT group) have made strategic decision that, to make best use of their facilities, you must use Microsoft Windoze based software, a strategic direction contrary to that taken by most companies. The direction LF wish to go is entirely their decision.

Speaking personally, over the last week or so I had become so fed-up with the LF forums I had started participating to a much greater extent in some of the other French forums available and found them to be informative, with many knowledgeable participants, with forum systems that basically worked (such that you could concentrate on participation is discussions rather than the software mechanisms). I returned here as I was told the problems had been sorted-out. I don’t think it is a question of “boycotting” but rather, for me, of deciding where I wish to spend time. Do I really want to go through posting repeatedly to try and stop getting error messages then having to go back through and delete all the duplicates when somebody pointed out to me that it had actually worked despite the failure error page I got shown, etc., etc.

[Dick Smith]

Nick - you can move away from MS proprietary products, as UK Gov is trying to do - partly because they realise the stranglehold that Bill Gates got over the whole state apparatus when he came over and schmoozed Tony Blair a couple of years ago. Lots of promises of exciting stuff for schools etc. but no-one seems to have seen any of it. It is quite possible to use code that is common to all, it just takes a bit of willpower and more than basic Microsoft training...

I requested that our office (UK civil service) have access to some software (FileMaker database). This is fairly serious software - the BBC uses it for programme details etc. The 'Technical Support Department' had never heard of it, would have to evaluate it (?) and would only do that in 6 months. I could have Microsoft Access (much inferior) though, because they didn't have to think about that. I'm not even allowed to connect my Apple laptop to my Dell desktop in case I 'compromise the system'. After Christmas I'm going to ask them to install a Bluetooth module - should be good for a few cardiac arrests.

[Tim Stephenson (Archant IS)]

There were unfortunately some problems with one of the servers last night, which is why some of you may have been experiencing occasional "out of memory" errors.

The problems have now been resolved, and normal service resumed.

Regards

[Will]

Thank you Tim, it's reassuring to know that this was an isolated problem.

Dick - your message reminds me of a corporate IT department at a very large publisher I had the misfortune to work for. One of the big problems I had was that as managing editor of a group of business magazines, I had tight deadlines to be met, and before any magazine could be sent to the repro house we had to scan any photographs we wanted to crop or manipulate digitally, and put all of the page files on a Zip disc. In their wisdom the IT department had provided (for security reasons they said)just one scanner (without transparency scanning facilities) and one zip drive for about 25 magazines, both connected to the company network via the same very old and slow Mac. Even if I went in at 7am to bag the scanning and zipping workstation for a couple of hours we still had loads of holdups. So I bought a scanner (with transparency adaptor) and CD burner on petty cash, connected them straight to my G4 - an instant 1000% improvement in efficiency and productivity. But you can imagine how IT went ape... In another instance when we were converting wholesale to DTP I discovered that for some of the supplements we were producing I could save vast amounts of time by instead of feeding stuff to the database department and sending their printouts (when they eventually arrived and after several correction stages) to the typesetter it was possible to feed our data direct into a program, which would carry out calculations, add typesetting codes and send a fully coded set of data direct to the DTP program - I worked on this direct with an IT consultant retained by the company, we got it working 100% pretty quickly, deliberately bypassing the in-house IT department. The piece of software we chose was Filemaker Pro, then far and away the best database program available for Macs (it was also available for PCs and far superior to anything from MS). On that occasion because the consultant carried a lot of weight with senior management we got away with having 'unauthorised software on a company machine', though I didn't exactly make many friends in IT. It all demonstrates that if we went along with corporate IT decisions we'd probably still be only one step away from hot metal in the publishing industry.

Sorry to mention this Tim - but not all IT departments have quite the same dinosaur mentality of course.

[George]

<I requested that our office (UK civil service) have access to some software (FileMaker database). This is fairly serious software - the BBC uses it for programme details etc. The 'Technical Support Department' had never heard of it, would have to evaluate it (?) and would only do that in 6 months. I could have Microsoft Access (much inferior) though, because they didn't have to think about that. I'm not even allowed to connect my Apple laptop to my Dell desktop in case I 'compromise the system'. After Christmas I'm going to ask them to install a Bluetooth module - should be good for a few cardiac arrests.>

Dick
Somewhat amused by this, probably because it's something like what I might have said to someone here (Network Manager for a Technical College).  Not wishing to start an argument as to which is best, but you should be aware that FileMaker is as you say a serious piece of software, but only in certain situations ie it is (or was when I last tried it) a flat file database rather than a relational one like Access.  I think it started out as an Apple application, but they then released a Windows version.  My technicians here would probably not know it either, would not want to support it because of a lack of interest in it. The knowledge that Access is an excellent product and already installed everywhere here, I could imagine using a similar evaluation excuse.  We also do not allow anyone to link their Mac to our network in anyway and so suggest you are probably correct in your assumption about a Bluetooth connection.

The Mac/Windows argument will it seems go on forever or at least until the demise of one or other.

Good luck

 

 

 

 

[Dick Smith]

No argument, George, but Filemaker has been fully relational for about six or so years (I think that was the Pro version). The best thing about it is its programmability, however, as very few 'mortal' users are ever going to use more than a fraction of its capabilities - I wanted to keep a contacts database. I have got a sneaking suspicion that it comes from a piece of software for the Sinclair QL (no, seriously) called Archive, which had a very similar set of features.

Why don't you let Macs connect to your network? Under OSX there should be no problems. But Bluetooth does seem to be the way to go - I can't be doing with crawling around under my desk brandishing a memory stick.

[Simon]

I don't want to dampen your sprits further Dick, but to meet GSI (Government Secure Intranet) standards, bluetooth connections are not allowed on networked devices (I know it's crazy, but that's how OGC want it).  If your kit is part of GSI, you will be breaching GSI rules and your network people will be displeased.

Regards

Simon

 

 

[Will]

The network in the company I referred to in the last post (OK, it was part of the Daily Mail group) had Macs and PCs living happily together for the most part. I think the only issue was that the editorial people with Macs could access all the files produced by admin and advertising people with PCs, whereas it didn't work so well the other way round. Great for us, but perhaps why they don't want Dick to plug in?

The company I was with before tried to network PCs and Macs and it was an unmitigated disaster, though that might be something to do with the fact that the corporate IT department (those words again) decided that none of the proprietary networking systems were any good, so they'd invent their own.

[I1]

My own attitude is one relating to the reasons for IT and computers. Excluding development companies who make their money developing software, the purpose for IT is to serve the users. Basically to make the life of users easier. A large number of IT groups completely ignore this purpose and thus totally fail in the reason fro their existence.

When a user requires a MAC for some good reason, then it is the job of an IT group to provide it (or to sort out how what is needed can be done). Different computers have different benefits and it is for the user to justify the reason for their need and thus to justify the costs, not for IT. One aspect to the justification for the costs will be the IT group’s costs (e.g. additional security devices, learning curve time, whatever), but this is just part of the users justification.

It is totally inappropriate for IT to decide as to the need for a second scanner as they do not use it. The user needs to make the justification for the scanner and then IT need to sort out the technical stuff to do it. Clearly, IT may be involved in the justification and may be given the opportunity to comment (e.g. our costs would be lower if you could use xxx as we know how these work already/have existing maintenance contracts/etc.) but IT’s role is to serve.

IT should not be controlling groups but a service groups – doing what the users need them to do. I have seen so many companies where IT have too much power, forget their purpose and become ends in themselves and completely fail the users.

[Simon]

That is so true I1, I see this all the time when IT drives the direction of support and not the Business.

S

[Will]

You are totally right there I1. I've always regarded IT as a tool to help others work more efficiently rather than an end in itself, as it has become in so many corporate structures.

[George]

Firstly to Dick

Many thanks on info re FileMaker, it has been a long time and do remember good words said about it.  There are though some good program features within Access as well and many organisations including us use it as a development tool.

 

As to why we don’t allow Macs on our network, we have found many security issues giving us a lack of control.  I have no problem with them as such and in the right hands I’ve no doubt extremely useful.  As a college with students as young as 14, we have a legal requirement to control use of Internet and our monitoring and filtering tools can be bypassed by the Macs.  We do have small networks for some specific training rooms just to share file and printers and we do allow our Marketing Dept to use them for access to the Internet, but have to trust them.  We have found that if connected to the main network it gets flooded with SAP packets and slows the whole thing down.

 

As to some of the other comments we in IT see ourselves very much as a service department and are well aware of the needs of users, but have to view the situation as a whole and to the benefit of all, offering "guidance" where necessary.

 

[I1]

[quote]Firstly to Dick Many thanks on info re FileMaker, it has been a long time and do remember good words said about it. There are though some good program features within Access as well and many o...[/quote]

Re: Issues with MACs - just use a SQUID.

[Dick Smith]

[quote]Re: Issues with MACs - just use a SQUID.[/quote]

Wossat? A new one on me! Is that a replacement for Dave? (Why do programmers choose such dopey names for their stuff?)

Another point on Filemaker is that it can handle a large number of records. I recently created a file of over 57,000 records - Excel struggles at that sort of size but FM handles it easily. How is Access with large files?

[I1]

SQUID is a bit like a large cache running on a Unix based box. Users do not have access to the internet but instead to the SQUID cache (SQUID has access to the internet). All is client browser username/password controlled has loads of security, configurable blocks, barring, logging, etc… Users (browsers) do not have any access to the internet but only to the SQUID which limits what they can do.