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what do you really think of france?


kd
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We moved to france, charente maritime area just over 2 years ago and have never been so cold or poor. Our house and gites have been up for sale for over a year and we cant wait for the day when we sell. We couldnt wait to leave England and rushed into buying here which was a big mistake. We have no income, only from 2 gites, no heating, only a wood burner and life here is pretty awful. If we could turn the clock back we would have gone straight to Spain. In winter, which is absolutely freezing, going to bed with hot water bottles, socks, etc is no fun. Life here has become a nightmare it is like living in England 50 years ago. Our French neighbours have never accepted us and ignore us. The cost of living especially electricity is unbelievable. Sorry to sound so depressing but living here has certainly been an experience and not for us. Anyone thinking of leaving England please research properly as it is important to get the place and area right.

 

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[quote]We moved to france, charente maritime area just over 2 years ago and have never been so cold or poor. Our house and gites have been up for sale for over a year and we cant wait for the day when we sel...[/quote]

I'm so sorry to hear this KD.I think everyone who wants to move here having done little or no research should read your post!!! The last couple of winters have been much colder than usual and I don't know what's going on this year!!!A few weeks ago it got up to over 30 for several days running but it just seems like a distant memory!! Good luck with selling your property. Whereabouts are you in 17? We're in the sw corner.

 

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What a shame you have ended up with a shattered dream, you are right and planning is the key. Heating is vital in France, and in a good part of Spain too for that matter. Speaking french is also essential for good relations with the neighbours, I don't know whether that was part of your problem, or if you have been unlucky.

I hope you find happiness elsewhere.

Regards

Simon

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As others have said, this post really tells it like it is.  I too am sorry that things have not worked out for you.  

The weather can be very extreme.  My mother in law lives in southern Brittany and her house is fully double glazed and has oil fired central heating, she wouldn't cope without it.  My sister in law lives in the south, just up from Marseilles and one day she will report temperatures of 40+ where it is unbearable and then in winter she can be under 6 feet of snow and lets not even talk about the Mistral!  As for the neighbours, you may just have been unlucky.

We are considering a permanent move to Brittany and this post just reinforces how important it is to do thorough research and dot every "i" and cross every "t" before commiting to a major life change. 

I hope you get your sale soon and that the next move, whether back to the UK or to try in Spain, is more sucessful for you.

As for what I really think of France, well I love it, but I am biased as my wife is half French (her mother is Breton).  I am often out of my depth with the language but I have always found the people to be very warm and welcoming, although this is helped with the family connections.

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Kd,like you say you would of moved straight to spain if you had the time again,dept 17(near royan) was our no 2 choice but the fact that we lived around 5 years in and around the med helped us when it came to things like the winter temps.Some people say that they are coming to the south of france for the sun etc,not in the winter time !!without the gulf stream main land france(europe) is colder than the UK.

ps if you have the time would you please email and let me know about what went wrong,not to gloat but to see if we would of done it different,thanks.

 

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I'm so sorry to hear this too and really hope things improve for you soon.  It's no consolation, I'm sure, but you're not alone, there are probably thousands of Brits in exactly the same position.   And although you are so right about people doing their research before they make what is such a drastic move, do they always listen or take on board their findings?  We've seen so many people passing through the Forum whom old hands have tried to caution, countless numbers of them.  But the advice and concerns of people who've been there before (are there now) and done (doing) it are invariably written off as the Cassandra like warnings of doom and gloom merchants.  In fact, a counter argument was regularly put forward that it's at least better to have tried than not tried at all.  You'll probably (rightly) disagree with that.

I'm tempted to suggest that the media has to take part of the blame here.  Promoting France as a place in the sun destination/cheap to live is not only irresponsible but darn right inaccurate and gives people a completely warped idea of where they're moving to.  I'm indifferent to weather but please don't ever talk to me about EDF bills.

Whatever you do, best of luck.  Life's far too short to be this unhappy.

M

 

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My view on this matter is that when we move we've made a big change in our life that we have to justify, therefore, we convince ourselves that everything french is wonderful. After a while the reality sets in, which doesn't mean having to make a comparison between the two counties, but accepting that there is good and bad in both. For me, the longer I'm away from the UK the more idyllic it becomes, but then again I've no intention to move back there again because that would mean an end to the adventure that is life.
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Thank you all so much for your responses. At least we can say we tried, and life has certainly been an experience here. My husband speaks very good french but I struggle. I think the main difficulty is the lonliness especially during the winter time and also the struggle to find work. I think that the french must be a very hardy lot especially in the country. I  agree with the suggestion that the media is to blame as people see television programmes showing houses at ridiculously low prices but they hardly ever show you the down sides. We were right to leave England but unfortunately got it wrong. Here's to the future, hopefully a better warmer, cheaper life in Spain. Watch this space...

 

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Hi

Not a good thing to read but its good to see that someone has the bottle to post this kind of experience.

Im not going to be one of many people that post to say we did lots of research and we got it right, we didnt do hardly any research, packed our jobs in and did it, its been a struggle for us as well, our families have been appalling, no support in any way, even down to sorting out some post for us in the UK, but after moving here and liking it for the holiday period and going through a bad patch we are liking it here again now.

Its been very cold this winter although shorter than we had in the UK, we budgeted for a couple of years, been here 10 months, property is up for sale but has to be for us to carry on in France which at the moment we want to do, I often think about what it would have been like back at work in England etc but cant decide on if I wished I was back in our old house and the way we were.

 

Some things for those thinking about it.

You can't put all your eggs in one basket, moving to France to run gites and expect an income to live on without backup is a crazy move. Also, running gites or B&B, all good living in the sticks, if you cant be seen, you wont get any passing trade.

Buying a house without central heating or without intending to install is not a good idea either, its not the Caribbean.

If you expect to get employment, don't expect it unless you speak very good French.

Be carefull who you get friendly with, hearing an English voice may seem a welcome one until you find out your house has been done over whilst you were back in the UK, the less you tell people the better, read many posts on here on this. Im sorry but i've met more English here I dont trust than French.

 

KD - Hope your life in France improves and your move to Spain proves to be a better one, you seem to know what you want to do next so can't offer any advice, after all you have been here longer than we have.

Regards

Lee

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Sorry to read your story. How are you marketing your house? I had a friend who had his house on the market for over a year with a local agent in France with no luck. He then contacted one of the agents in England who specialise in French property and sold it within a month. I think it was La Residence, but anyway I think any spreading of the net may catch more fish.

Perhaps another idea might be to try to find a long term tenant, which would enable you to be a tenant in Spain to ensure that is exactly what you want.

You say you have a gite that gives you some income, maybe if you could sell that as a holiday home, use the money to improve your own house, i.e. central heating, and make it more desirable to a buyer.

I sometimes think advertising property in Paris might be a good idea to attract the 2nd home buyers looking for a weekend bolt hole.

I hope things get better soon

Paul

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I too am sorry to hear your story.It's very relevant to me as i'm moving to the Charente Maritime in July with wife and four children.I do have a job and have been able to keep some property in the UK in case things don't work out but reading your post has been a reality check.

I have to say that we have experienced the opposite with regards to our neighbours etc.They have all been very helpful and one of them came with us to see the headmasters of the local schools the children will be attending as our French is not brilliant.

With regard to electricity our last bill was over a 1000 euros and this will be our biggest household cost.

I would like to ask a couple of things.Do you have children and where are you in the dept? We believe the children are our best asset (and biggest potential problem) and they have already made lots of friends in the village.

Our move is purely to spend less time working and more time with the children before they leave home.We will earn less than half what we do in the UK but we are completley debt-free for the first time ever.

 

good luck with whatever you do

 

tim

 

ps. If you need help selling your property please send me a pm

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It's all been said above. I can only reiterate what I've read on this forum so often. Remember the three Rs - research, research, research. Please do so thoroughly before going to Spain - there's a downside to Spain too.

Best of luck.

Patrick

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[quote]It's all been said above. I can only reiterate what I've read on this forum so often. Remember the three Rs - research, research, research. Please do so thoroughly before going to Spain - there's a do...[/quote]

I'd like to add another R - rent.  I know it is difficult for people who plan to use their home as their income to do this, but renting in the area you plan to buy before selling a house in the UK and buying anywhere might be a good investment. 

Our first winter in the Alps has taught us a lot about the type of house we'd want to buy and where.   Rather than looking for a hideaway, I'll be looking for houses near roads that are bound to be cleared of snow, looking more closely at central heating, and while stone houses with lots of windows may look gorgeous, they are bloody expensive to heat, as we have found to our cost.  I wouldn't mind coughing up as much to EDF if I'd actually been warm!

Best of luck kd

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I do believe you need to think very carefully about a move to Spain. Why do you think it will be different?

Friends of ours had a stunning house (in summer that is), but come winter it was freezing and the walls covered in mould. It can get very cold there too and a much smaller proportion of properties have central heating.

In rural Spain many people don't speak any English and there are no guaranties they will seem more friendly.

Add to that the rather haphazard planning laws and often shady title to propery makes France seem comforting.

I'm not trying to be horrid, but given your current unhappiness, it would be awful to make the same mistake twice.

Much better to have had a bit of a scrape than end up with nothing.

Good luck anyway,

Em

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We havent been here in France that long, only 16 months, its the best thing we have ever done. We decided to go to Spain for six weeks over the Christmas period ( we have seen the t.v. shows to). it was Spains worse winter for 30 years, of so the locals said, I hated spain, i couldnt stand the lack of grass, and the mountains looked like slag heaps, I was home sick for france. we only lasted four and a half weeks in spain.

good luck to you, enjoy the rest of your lives.

tricia b

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[quote]I do believe you need to think very carefully about a move to Spain. Why do you think it will be different? Friends of ours had a stunning house (in summer that is), but come winter it was freezing ...[/quote]

I would second that.

Out of around 20 family and friends that have gone to Spain, half or so after a few years, think they may go back to the UK or try France.

So not much different to here I guess.

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Hi,

Interesting thread, especially in that your subject has little to do with the content!!

I'll answer the question first of all. We love it. We love french food, wine and culture. We love the French for their kindness and generosity of spirit and we love the life here. We don't like the top heavy administration and the pettiness there. We don't like the moral cowardice in the face of bullies - "oui Monsieur, c'est horrible, mais c'est comme ça." We don't like the way in which powerful lobbies can make the Govt back down from its committments.

Would we move away? Never.

Now to come to your distress and to the replies to it.

I'd like to echo what others have said about being sorry for you, that it hasn't worked out for you. However, please don't take this the wrong way when I ask you whether a French person moving to Merthyr Tydfil and speaking little English (your case) would expect to be able to pick up work?

I agree wholeheartedly with those who have criticised the media for eulogising moving and living abroad. But I am sorry to say that I think anyone who believes what they read or see is unbelievably naive. (I know Will, I was fooled by the egregious Nigel).

I've some suggestions. It's too late for France, but perhaps not too late to avoid you making an equally disastrous second move. It's presumptious of me, I know, as I don't know you, or your situation.

First, as everyone else has said. Do your research. Did you check mean day/night temperatures in Poitou-Charente before buying? Did you check average Gite lettings? Did you find out about electricity costs? Health insurance? Income Tax? Did you talk to the neighbours before buying?

Moving abroad is a completely different animal to moving within your own country and for that reason demands VERY much more serious checking up.

Now I'm coming to much more delicate ground and I'm going to match your frankness in sharing your unhappiness with some observations we've made since we've been here.

Many people are moving to France from the UK to escape something. But most can't escape what they're moving from, because they bring it with them as part of their mental baggage. So if you were unhappy in the UK, and are unhappy with life in France (probably different things), are you certain you would be happy with life in Spain? We saw "Holiday homes from hell" today, and were pretty appalled at the experiences of some people there.

I don't know what job skills you and your husband have, but are they marketable in a foreign country, where you'll be competing against natives, with a perfect knowledge of their language, will have local contacts and nationally recognised qualifications? Would you want to live on the coast, where there are hoards of drunken slobs demanding sausages and chips and beer? Would you prefer to live inland, where living is extremely tough, the winters cold and dry and the summers baking hot? EVERY country has huge disadvantages if you're not born to them.

I know it seems as if I'm rather lecturing, but before you DO take irreversible steps to move away yet again, PLEASE do make quite sure the life where you're planning to go is one you really want. If you do ask for advice, please don't do as we so often have seen, someone asking advice, getting the answer they didn't want to hear, so go on asking the same question here there and everywhere until they come to someone who DOES eventually say what they want to hear.

Sorry to be so negative, but I suspect you may be seeking something that doesn't exist.

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Picking up on a few of the excellent points Ian makes.  Influence of media, can anyone remember any other topic that has received quite so much coverage on TV, in newspapers/magazines than the supposed joys of moving to France has in the last 4/5 years?  Its unprecedented, surely?  Heck, I haven't even had TV for the last few years but I've managed to hear about all these programmes.  And as soon as I do re-connect to cable, what do I receive but that ridiculous Nippy and Nigel nonsense in repeat form on BBC Prime!  But even though I may think it's nonsense, there are clearly thousands who've watched it and thought, isn't the Ardeche beautiful, wouldn't it be great if we could live somewhere like that, etc., etc.  And it's insidious actually for I bet in a few year's time (perhaps less), TV schedules will be crammed with shows depicting how it all went wrong, let's all move back to Blighty, etc.

Renting is a must but only if your rental period includes November through to April. 

I've been an expat approaching 20 years now and in all that time and four countries later, I've never met anyone who left the UK trying to escape something for whom things have really worked out well.  Even those who moved to good jobs, more money, endless sunshine, incomparable quality of life to back home still found things to complain about once the honeymoon period wore off.  There are some people who are just born to moan and they'll find fault anywhere given time.  

Re employment, I continue to be very sceptical about most people's chances of finding work in rural France.  I would even go so far as to suggest that unless you speak excellent French and have fully transferable skills and, as importantly, qualifications, it's best to prepare yourselves for not necessarily ever working full time again.  It's going to be badly paid seasonal odd jobs at best. 

Apologies for appearing so gloomy on a Friday morning but the thread cries out for reality check comments.

M

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I have never read such a load of garbage being written in response to the original posting....whilst I can really feel for the couple...I feel the tone of some of the replies is bordering on the bounds of being very condescending.

What has happened to this couple, could have happened anywhere in the world and to suggest that "research" is the be all and end all answer to starting a new enterprise is just plain stupid. Even with all the research in the world...other factors come into play...look at MG/Rover for instance...mind you...taking millions out in salaries...when it was losing £25 million a month doesn't help.

At least this couple gave it their best shot...which is all you can ask for..but to patronise them in some of the replies....borders on the bounds as being laughable!

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This is an interesting thread for me as my young neighbour has told me that her parents (not actually retired, but in the 'zone') have put their house on the market and are planning to go to France for a few years, do up a property and come back.

Where abouts ? They don't know

Do they speak French - No

Have they got the internet (Lets face it, a useful research tool) - No

Why ? They would like 'an adventure' before they are too old. It looks good on TV !

My neighbour has 4 children, her sister 3, so trips to visit Mum & Dad will never be cheap, leave alone the fact that now see 'Grandma ' a couple of times a week.

A recipe for disaster ? Or not ?

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A recipe for disaster ? Or not ?

Guaranteed candidates for appearance on how it all went wrong TV programme in a couple of years' time.  Would be different perhaps if they weren't planning on selling up entirely in the UK.  But per their current scheme, what do they plan to "come back" to, living with one of the children?  And, money aside, have they given any thought to the hassle?  I was beginning to think this craze may have run its course but clearly not.  M

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Why does it have to be a disaster if something doesnt work out?

If someone doesn`t do something wouldn`t it be worse to always wonder what it would have been like?

There is an expression, `nothing ventured ,nothing gained`(or similar...somebody will correct it!)

I knew a young couple  in the UK whose `dream` it was to live on a `fashionable`estate (my idea of hell...and told them so) they got their `dream home` and hated every day of the 2 years that they lived there! if they had done their home work, they would have realised that there were so many families with teenagers out till the small hours , that my friends  (one was a HGV driver on nights , the lady a newsagent...up at 4.30am) suffered from a desperate lack of sleep

So you see you don`t have to make a radical change to make a `mistake`, its all part of lifes rich tapestry!

Mrs O

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>A recipe for disaster ? Or not ?

Only a fool would try to decide in advance without knowing the people. Here is just one scenario where in retrospect this would actually be a shrewd move, I can think of at least a three or four similar scenarios.

Let's say the couple do sell up in the UK, buy a good cheap house in France and renovate it for the next few years. Let's say, as many economists are saying, that house prices in the UK crash by 20%-50%. The couple come back to the UK refreshed, with new skills (French, renovation), a new outlook on life and a load of cash left with which they can buy a better house, plus a holiday home in a nice area of which they can be proud as they've done the work themselves.

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