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How will it end?


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"I've said before (ad nauseum) that I'm not convinced disillusionment with life in Britain is a  sound reason at all for leaving, quite the reverse in fact.  To make it work abroad in the long term, you've got to have a positive outlook on life and you've got to be able to cope with everything life throws up at you."

I think you are missing the point. You can have a positive outlook on life and still be disillusioned. In fact, the more positive your outlook is the more frustrating and disillusioning it can be to live somewhere where your positivity is not recognised. You and some others seem to suggest that anyone who moves here or elsewhere because they are unhappy with their life in Britain is somehow doomed to failure and should be looking inwardly to discover where 'the real' unhappiness lies. I think that is nonsense and believe those 1 in 3 people who want to leave Britain do so not because they are missing something deep in their souls but simply because they are not happy with the place that the UK has become. I think there is an element of snobbery going on here that suggests some people move to France for noble reasons (?) and will succeed while others are 'escaping' the UK and will ultimately fail and I just don't think that is true.

The bottom line is that no other country in Europe is losing its native population as quickly as Britain and there must be some VERY good reasons why.
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Boghound said

'It would  be interesting to see the reactions of his  (that's Tim17's) neighbours when they find out, that he's just another scrounger...living off a country's welfare system that he has paid FA towards.'

As far as I can make out, Tim17 will be entitled to child benefit. That doesn't make him a scrounger, it makes him a parent. Just like some of his neighbours will be. Even if he didn't have a job, as far as I know, if he was seeking work he would be entitled to non means tested benefits while he did so, for a limited period of time. Just like his neighbours.

Macker says

The bottom line is that no other country in Europe is losing its native population as quickly as Britain and there must be some VERY good reasons why.

 Macker, where do you get this information from, and what does it mean, 'native population'?

tresco

 

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To get back to the original question.....

If it's true that history repeats itself then clearly it is most likely to end when the Germans come marching in again. We're overdue for an invasion now, as it happens.

This time I don't think there'll be much fighting. The tanks will cross the border at one minute after midday and be in Paris before the government, civil servants, and senior military staff get back from lunch.

I expect all the British owned gites will be immediately commandeered for troop accommodation and we'll all have to move into our barns or garages. Or even go back to the Dis-united Kingdom.

A French "Non" vote to the EU constitution may be just the excuse the Krauts are looking for.

I'm brushing up on my German and learning how to cook sauerkraut and sausage. It pays to be prepared.

Patrick

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Don't underestimate the level of disillusionment amongst the French. There are 3 million unemployed and many very well qualified people earning no more than the minimum wage. Some 300 000 french citizens currently work in the UK.

Perhaps it's a case of the grass always being greener on the other side, but I know that my french friends certainly don't see their country as the land of opportunity that some on this forum seem to think it is.

I enjoy living in France, but I certainly don't view it as a panacea to life's frustrations, and can think of many examples of where the french system goes a long way to making life more frustrating.

When I first posted on this site I was the most adamant of francophiles. As I've already stated, I do really enjoy life here, but now that the honeymoon period is over the rose-tinted glasses have come off and I feel able to view things for what they are. Having said that, each to their own, and I'm sure that there are some people who genuinely felt a need to "Escape" from the UK and if moving to France has proved to be the solution to many of their problems, well, good luck to them.

Don't forget, wherever you go you always take yourself with you!!

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It took me a while to realise where I had heard it before -P Shute who started this thread must be a former black cab driver.

Just after you get into a London taxi you hear the words “That Osama Bin Larden. How will it end”? or “That Camilla Parker so-called Bowles. How will it end”? (There are endless variations to the name). What then follows is “It seems to me...” followed by a list of retorical questions.

Re-read the first posting and you will find a perfect example of the art form.

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[quote]As the poster will be paying tax and social charges why do you think its 'scrounging' ?[/quote]

Because he has not paid a bean into the French system before he starts to claim off it...like many that come over here now for the "Better quality of Life".
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Boghound,

Are you really suggesting i pay social charges and income tax for a couple of years BEFORE i claim child benefit or a rebate on the property taxes ? Are you barking mad ? (pun intended).

We have already several french friends in our small commune where we are the only non-frenchies.They think we're crazy for moving to France but have been  helpful and supportive nonetheless without any sign of resentment.

tim

 

i'm (nearly !!) here in france

 

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[quote]Boghound, Are you really suggesting i pay social charges and income tax for a couple of years BEFORE i claim child benefit or a rebate on the property taxes ? Are you barking mad ? (pun intended). W...[/quote]

Yes. Why should I pay for you to breed and for the upkeep of your offspring.
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I must agree with you on this one Boghound. If everyone wanted something for doing nothing or just breeding we would all be in trouble. Fortunately, these appear to be a minority and most people luckily have a bit more pride, particularly the locals in that regard. They do at least appear to have a lot of that and to be very hard working and self sufficient and not asking for hand outs(ex. farming subsidies) . I can only imagine what the neighbours are thinking but are not saying, particularly being an outsider looking for something from their hard earned taxes.

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Should i presume then that both Boghound , WJT and the majority of ordinary french people never claim any state benefits whatsoever ?

You have made me so guilty (NOT !!). Without people 'breeding' as you nicely put it there will not be enough future earners paying tax to fund state pensions etc for old codgers like you.

Back on planet earth the sun is shining and there's football telly for a change.

 

tim

 

 

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Hi Timc17, I am currently in my 40's (O.K. I am sure this qualifies me to be an old codger. ) However, I am certainly not planning on receiving more than pennies if any from my state pension. Oh yea by the way, unfortunately, my husband and I contribute more taxes than I would like to even think about.  Some people are very lucky to have skipped this step and are able to benefit from others.

P.S. Timc17, you have stated earlier that you are paying taxes so this is all a bit unfair being directed toward you. I guess it is just a sentiment that people like myself feel about those that don't. Honestly, nothing personal. I am sure your real situation is different, just disagree with the mentality of the politics. Quite honestly, we find it quite difficult sometimes meeting all of our obligations and trying to do the right thing.

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There are more French people living in Britain than there are British people living in France. It must be hard for French people whose villages have been 'swamped' by Brits. But that's life in a big house. You can't have the agricultural subsidies without the rest of the EU's effects, one of which is freedom of movement.

France has been the major driving force behind the EU and the push towards integration, and the movement of people across borders is the practical result of this. We're seeing the same thing in the UK, with migrants from the new EU countries flooding in. Where will it end? Possibly with France being full of retired Brits and Britain being full of young, dynamic French who want to further their careers. And not only French. I think the next generation of British youngsters are going to find increasing competition for jobs.

Jo

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[quote]Perhaps it's time we started taking the learning of foreign languages a little more seriously?[/quote]

Really CJB, what a totally antiquated mind set. EVERYONE KNOWS YOU ONLY HAVE TO SHOUT AT JOHNNY FOREIGNER FOR HIM TO UNDERSTAND YOU.

There, and it is so much easier to read in capital letters as well.

I personally have a real problem with languages but I plod on learning or trying to learn French. At least now when I see the farmer or my neighbour approaching me I don't turn and run as I used to. I shake hands, listen and reply as best I can. If all else fails we resort to the dire weather (or by next weekend the good weather) etc. They both speak better English than I speak French but it is up to me to learn their language - and I will PG.

In a previous life I taught basic 'communication skills' in English as the simple act of sending a letter to someone has now become a major fear for many. If only I had done Latin at school languages might just have been easier .

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[quote]Should i presume then that both Boghound , WJT and the majority of ordinary french people never claim any state benefits whatsoever ? You have made me so guilty (NOT !!). Without people 'breeding' as...[/quote]

Just because you can claim it...really doesn't mean you have to! Oh..by the way...the amount of State Pension I can claim...isn't worth the effort of sending it.
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So what's made you opt for France

Everyone picks up on the word scrounge but ignores the more interesting part of the question, why move to France? This was what interested me.  Yet from what the poster goes on to explain, it's clearly a calculated move as the social benefits in France are more generous than those elsewhere.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's no particular love of France that's driving the move, why not move to a country where you have at least some semblance of a chance of finding paid employment?

We're already seeing pockets of open discontent amongst French nationals at the recent massive influx of Brits.  And we all know French people who gossip about the finances of the new arrivals, especially young ones.  You don't think that in time, perhaps in not too much time, there's going to a backlash against those who move to France permanently and live there without any visible means of financial support? 

M

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You don't think that in time, perhaps in not too much time, there's going to a backlash against those who move to France permanently and live there without any visible means of financial support? 

Not necessarily, Margaret.   I've heard this said about les arabes (sorry to say it, but the attitide most certainly exists).   But there is an assumption here that les anglais are loaded, so as long as they don't go around shouting their mouths off about what great benefits they're getting and how good it is not to work, I guess they'll be okay. 

 

 

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Without giving too much personal information i'll expand on my previous postings.

1. I have a job , therefore I WILL be paying tax and social charges.

2. We have four children. As in the UK we are entitled to claim child benefit and fully intend to do so. It is much higher than the UK but it could have been lower.

3. Our healthcare costs in France will be far greater than the UK but the standard will be better (in our opinion).

4. Because of the number of children we have our property taxes are reduced and the starting point for paying income tax is quite high.

5. We bought our house in Dept 17 two years ago and have put around £80k into the local economy doing it up.

6. We love the laid back country way of life in France and the children seem to have more freedom and enjoy playing with the other children in the village.

7.I'm fed up of working for 60 hours+ and getting paid for 40.My wife has had enough of standing in front of kids swearing at her and threatening to assault her and being told 'tough that's what teachers are paid to do'.

8. Our move has been made financially possible by the UK property market like many others before us.

 I totally reject the label of scrounger.We have the right to move where we like and to claim the aformentioned benefits and tax breaks which are available to anyone else in France with children.

 For us this a once in a lifetime chance to do something different regardless of what Boghound etc think.If we fail and have to return to the UK then at least we gave it a go.

 

tim

.

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I don't know how, but I knew Tim17 had a job here, and therefore assumed he was talking about universal benefits (which he was, as it turned out). 

Perhaps it was something he said in a previous post.

Anyway, as someone who has been moved to apologise on this forum at least 5 times I appreciate seeing someone else do it, very much. In real life I am sure we all say (and are) sorry for any misunderstanding, when we recognise it, but I very rarely see anyone say sorry in cyberspace.

tresco

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There seems to be this myth that benefits in France are way better than England, just out of interest, we have two kids and the child benefit paid to us in France is actually a good bit less than what we were paid in England although I know it rises substantially for the third child. The taxes are lower but the social charges (or PRSI) are way higher and I think the amount you pay as a proportion of your income in France is as high as a high income earner in England even if you are a low earner! So there must be other good reasons for us all to come and live here, I can't see that scrounging could be a good reason to move to France.
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I can't see that scrounging could be a good reason to move to France.

Macker, don't worry, you are preaching to the converted when you talk about taxes (both direct and indirect) and social charges in France.  As upper end tax payers, we were appalled at the deductions when we worked there.  And even retired people get stung far, far harder than they would in Britain.  Take wealth tax, for example.  Despite the recently introduced 5 year reprieve for foreigners, it's amazing how many Brits who previously assumed they were just perhaps comfortably off, move to France only to discover that the tax man there regards them as super rich, invariably just because they've managed to hang on to their old house in England.

So I can to an extent understand why someone who has worked and contributed in France for many years (be they any nationality) wanting to get something back by way of unemployment benefit if they  subsequently find themselves jobless.  I have a very close friend who is currently in that situation after 20+ years of paying French contributions.  BUT, there is absolutely no doubt that an increasing number of British people are moving to France for a laid back life in the country subsidised by the system. 

M

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