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Got to be Labour again for me.


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Labour? maybe - they're probably no worse than anyone else.

Blair? certainly not! A PM who tells so many lies - some of them so blatant you can't believe you've just heard the man say what he just has - should be shown the door by the nation he's misled.

I've heard him tell so many, I believe he's actually mentally damaged or disturbed and incapable of telling the truth.

Just the other day in PM questions he said that Britain went to war to oust Saddam & change the regime in Iraq. But that wasn't what he said at the time. The only way he could get the vote in the commons for war was to say Saddam had WMD and that Brits were in imminent danger of attack by him. So that's what he told us.

Now the WMD story is an embarrassment so he tells us something else. At least the Tories just said we should help the US and get Saddam out. No fiction or pretence from them, whether or not you agree with them ..

I hope the Scots Nats and Plaid Cymru take all the Labour seats in Scotland and Wales. Without them Labour would have no majority, or precious little in the real parliament of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Blair started the breakup of the UK with his vote-catching (at the time) devolution nonsense - now he should pay the price of his own folly.

....and so on, and so on, ad infinitum.....

Patrick, aka Indignant of Tunbridge Wells

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I think it is about time that European states scraped, National Health, State Education, State Pensions and all the other hand outs they give to people and gave people the freedom to buy what local services they need. Only providing free heath care, education etc to those you really need it. Enough of these nanny states that waste tax payers money with poor management, red tape and corruption.

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To be honest I am a bit of a Tory but I can't see this lot getting in. My biggest problem is that I don't actually like any of the parties at present. The biggest problem is that they all talk about absolute rubbish and are very condescending towards voters in general. In fact I get the feeling that they all feel we are all really thick and should leave the important things to them.

I have one thing to say about Maggie being an ex Falklands vet (who totally disagrees with the Iraq thing by the way) not many people know that she wrote hand written letters to all those who lost members of their families there.

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The fact is that no matter who you vote for you will get what you are given and have to make the best or worst of it.  Whoever gets in will make a pigs ear of some things and tinker with others and then its time to swop for somebody else or not and there it is. That's my view of politics, and anyhow, if politicians were that intelligent in the first place they wouldn't have become politicians to begin with.

  Hopefully along the way not too many other countries will feel the slap of democracy and be told "don't you feel much better now".

But I suppose at the end of the day, as they say, vote for the one that looks nice as half of the voters will do.  So hard luck Charles Kennedy.

weedon

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And another thing....

Those very dangerous tabloids, namely The Sun has alot to answer, it whips up its readers into a frenzy and feeds them political views based on whatever some head of industry/editor want them to believe all in the name of selling newspapers. The most dangerous thing is the readers really believe it and can't tell spin from fact or truth.

The amount of times I hear about immigrants taking all the jobs, receiving more benefits than themselves, cue jumping the National Health.  It makes me scream. Yes, the pot is only so full, but some people do just take and they are not necessarily immigrant. The tabloids started the ball rolling on this particular subject and it sells newspapers by the truckload.  The tabloids I believe have the true power.

Bryan Smith has had a bit of a pasting in this thread, he obviously does not have the benefit of everyone else's experience. I think we have all met the Bryan Smith's here in France in the past couple of years due to equity rich migrants/tabloid tv programmes and we all feel a little bit frustrated, hence his public flogging here.

Nuff said.

Deby

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'Nuff said'

Not quite Deby, I don't see it as a flogging, but if Bryan doesn't want to take part in the conversation anymore to me that's a shame.

RDKR said

'I think it is about time that European states scraped, National Health, State Education, State Pensions and all the other hand outs they give to people and gave people the freedom to buy what local services they need. Only providing free heath care, education etc to those you really need it.

Well, to me, we all really need it, we need all these things, and more, as a society (for those of us who believe in more than just a family unit, like Mrs T didn't, famously).  I was more than happy to pay for them then, in England, I am more than happy to pay for them now.

tresco

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I think my local labor MP is loosing the plot.he was canvasing this weekend and when he called at my house I politely told him that I would not be voting labour as I was so against the war,dirty hospitals,appalling school meals etc.He then stormed off down the path,turned and asked me if I had any children,I replied no.He then said "this would explain my totally selfish attitude". I admit I was totally stuck for words and just watched as he shuffled down the road.He also swore at an elderly neighbour when she challenged him.Mind you I live in merseyside which may explain the standard of MP.I must add that I am not a conservative either.However the area I live in has seen vast increases in crime in the last 5 years.My businesss premises has been burgled/vandalised 4 times in the last 12 months.When one of the youths was caught he received a slap on the wrist despite his vandalism costing me £800 as he wrecked my roof.Another one was ordered to pay me£500 by the court(5 years ago) and I received two payments of £5.this makes me mad but my MP thinks I am obviously selfish.I hope Blair looses and has the smirk wiped off his face.
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I have deliberately kept out of this thread for a short time because the comments were mostly just personal attacks on me and not debating the issue. I don't know why I was surprised - that's what usually happens in England when you try to have a rational discussion with Labour supporters.

I intended to be provocative but perhaps not as much as happened. Yes we are moving to France and yes we are disenchanted with what the Labour Party is doing to England, but that is by no means the major reason for leaving.

The main reason is that the climate in the part of France where we are going is better for my wife's health than where we live now. As far as 'gin and tonic birigade' is concerned I really don't think so. My wife and I worked very hard in very demanding jobs. We are both now retired, and able to move to somewhere where hopefully we will be happy. We are probably naive about French politics but we will have to find out as we go along.

We have certainly not done this on a whim, having spent a lot of our lives in France finding out what we like and dislike, the advantages and disadvantages. We have spoken to people in person and by e-mail who have made a similar move and spent time looking at sites like this and obtaining advice.

I still find it amazing that the only means anyone has to defend Tony Blair is to attack Margaret Thatcher. I am glad that other people have pointed out the many failings of our current Prime Minister and his government.

Thank you to those who offer construcive advice on this forum. We have found the vast majority of it very useful.

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"I still find it amazing that the only means anyone has to defend Tony Blair is to attack Margaret Thatcher."

Bryan I've looked carefully again through this thread and I can't find a single word in defence of Blair.

There is plenty of criticism of Thatcher which is a measure of how profoundly some people disagreed with her ideas.

What does seem clear is that Blair has gone from being an electoral asset to an electoral liability. What a pity he's squandered so much goodwill and support.

Hoddy
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 'I intended to be provocative but perhaps not as much as happened.'

Always a tricky thing to pull off, perhaps best avoided?

'Yes we are moving to France and yes we are disenchanted with what the Labour Party is doing to England, but that is by no means the major reason for leaving.'

But Bryan you did strongly imply that it was, and in your profile too

'The main reason is that the climate in the part of France where we are going is better for my wife's health than where we live now. As far as 'gin and tonic birigade' is concerned I really don't think so. My wife and I worked very hard in very demanding jobs. We are both now retired, and able to move to somewhere where hopefully we will be happy. We are probably naive about French politics but we will have to find out as we go along'.

That's all fair enough, and good luck to you

'I still find it amazing that the only means anyone has to defend Tony Blair is to attack Margaret Thatcher'

Really you did almost invite this sort of discussion with your earlier comments, Mrs T was a major political figure who really provoked a love her/hate her response. I can't think of anyone else this would apply to.

The older I get, the less I can be bothered with this sort of party political stuff, i'm interested in issues, and other peoples opinions, but it nearly always ends in tears on these forums. Disenfranchised, for the first time ever, and in a way relieved to be so, I would have a hard job voting in the English elections this time round.

I'm not really keen on the 'can't we all be nice to eachother' requests that sometimes pop up on forums, but perhaps we could be a bit more cheerful, there's another month to go

tresco

 

 

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Bryan, thanks for your reply which was generous, I think 

Yes Tourangelle, I did know about the voting thing, but i'm unsure about how I feel about this. When I was a fiery youngster I used to say things like 'you have no right to comment on politics if you don't use your vote'. I don't feel quite so strongly about that now, but still, i'm a bit mixed up about what my motive for voting there would be, when I hope to stay here.

I understand there are plenty of people here who have kept their voting rights in UK, anyone fancy trying to persuade me?

tresco

EDIT: Bryan, I did not mean to imply you were stirring. I would have a bit of a nerve to, as I am no saint in that respect, and have been involved in more than one skirmishes on the forum, sometimes when my DO NOT POST sticker falls off the screen.  I have my peaceful life at home, the forum is a less peaceful place sometimes, but I find that OK

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Until the last election, I always voted labour. Not the last time though.

Friends who loved Maggie, think that TB is the best tory PM since her, and will happily vote for him.

Voting in UK Elections? We always did and were allowed to for 20 years. And we vote in every election we can vote in here too. We just feel like we have to vote in everything we are allowed to vote in.

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Thanks outcast. I had a look, and it's a pretty easy site to navigate.

Like others who have posted here, I always took what I felt to be my responsibility to vote very seriously. It's my own fault I have lapsed, (here too, for the MEP type elections) no excuses. Still, I have plenty of time now to consider this issue for the future.

tresco

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Thank goodness we're not all the same!  Michael Howard is no better or worse than Blair or Kennedy.  However, Mrs Howard (ex. Sandra Paul ) is far more dignified and would make a much better premier's wife than the other two potential first ladies.  It's policies we should be voting for rather than personalites.  I'm true blue and proud of it, Margaret Thatcher in her prime was a great leader.  The French had a great deal of respect for her and would have loved to have had someone with the same strength of character.  Is it fair to blame being unemployed on any government in office?

 

 

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It is funny reading through these remarks nobody seems to have remembered John Major. After all we didn't go from Maggie to Blair.

Mops said

However, Mrs Howard (ex. Sandra Paul ) is far more dignified and would make a much better premier's wife than the other two potential first ladies. It's policies we should be voting for rather than personalites.

sounds like mops thinks we should go for looks
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All the parties share at least one problem - getting the voters to the poll ! In most years that is because of voter apathy but increasingly there are people, like me, who cannot in all conscience vote for Blair and yet do not see Howard or Kennedy as viable alternatives - Help !!
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sounds like mops thinks we should go for looks

My comments were taken out of context.  I don't see how being dignified has anything to do with one's looks.  What I meant was that Mrs. H is happy to play a supportive role to her husband and doesn't have to blabb to all and sundry or try to upstage 'hubby' by having an important career.  She may be an ex model but she's certainly no trophy wife in fact she looks quite natural perhaps even slightly dowdy at times. 

 

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Mops said "........... The French had a great deal of respect for her and would have loved to have had someone with the same strength of character"

I won't get political here mops but I beg to differ on that statement, all our French friends, up and down the country and others we have spoken with, in the main, detested her vision and the way she let people simply fall by the wayside, something France and its inherent Socialism cannot (for the most part)stand by and watch. The strikes you so often see here are the solidarity of a race that the Dame de Fer simply would not have broken.

Chauvinism is as rife here as it has ever been, as you are fully aware I'm sure and if one thinks that any Frenchman here would want to see someone like her as PM, I'm afraid is pure fantasy !

As far as strong characters, De Gaulle and Mitterand were not wus's ! Even Chirac has held on with some firmness. I don't like the toe rag but against all odds, he has hung in there some how !!

Sorry Angela, if I am mistaking your quote of "someone like her" as actually meaning, her ? which is some what different of course.

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