Got to be Labour again for me.

[Kingdingaling]

-Can and not- doesn't look right, anyway

Sorry its not France related, but come on, Michael Howard, for gods sake, he's a muppet

I have to say that if Labour hadn't taken over from Thatcher, I very much doubt i'd be here, I was unemployed then and now, again unemployed but im no longer living with my parents and my mortgage has been and gone.

Labour for me, and I hope many here feel the same, another I dont get, why some people dont tell you which way they vote.

Just thought i'd give my bit.

[Richard-R]

And keep the red flag flying high.

[Alcazar]

Whilst I loathe the Tories for the way they destroyed British manufacturing and the pits, and for the poll tax, I CANNOT ever vote for a party which can't afford to send it's kids to university, but can send them to an illegal war in Iraq, to die

Who does that leave???

Alcazar

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

While I was growing up in the 70`s I seen to think that the country was in a right old state no electric 3 day week strikes for the slightest reason(uk not france:crying etc.Things were not that great in the 80`s ether with the miners getting a good thumping from maggie as well as the police and the pictures on tv to boot.

With out the reforms she did "new labour" would not have a country to give away which is in such great shape,new labour new europe next,how long will it be before blair gives in and hands back the UK,s rebate it gets from the EU?

 

[Russethouse]

I believe fundamentally that it is your duty to vote, but as I am not attracted politically (or any other way) to Howard, and am profoundly disappointed in Blair, and new Labour (Alcazaar, how I agree with you)that leaves the Lib Dems, lead by a man reported to be considering taking paternity leave at the time of the election ! Ye Gods !!

In fact from the discussion on the TV at present it seems I am not the only one who feels there is little choice. I think just getting the voters into the polling booth may be a major issue.

Outcast - since you are there 'in France', will you vote ?

[Deby]

Maybe this should be another thread, but one cannot help thinking that if the French had a leader who would be strong and take on the unions, de-centralise and lose the levels of bureaucracy the French might benefit.

I can think of a few advantages:

If you made it easier and less costly to employ people there would be less unemployed!

Get rid of the heavily subsidised welfare state and ploughed the money back into developing free enterprise.

I am not a Thatcherite but there is a time and a place for SOME strong economic measures.

Blair should have resigned and moved over for Gordon after the Iraq debacle in my opinion.

Anyway must get off the PC as have my life to continue with......

Deby

[Teamedup]

Deby, they do try sometimes though and it is a bit like a very old tv program from my childhood called The Rag Trade and the slightest whiff of something the workers didn't like and the cry of 'everybody out' went up. Well it is everyone to the barracades here.

I admit that Sarko has tried, but........... not that much has really changed. Some things that look like good sense to me, ie cutting the charges businesses pay is never started and no one would man the barracades if that happened. Sometimes it feels like the government doesn't ever consider anything that will do other than lead to confrontation with it's citizens.

[Hoddy]

Because I disliked Thatcher so much I was quite shocked when one of my french neighbours suggested some time ago that France needed someone like her.

He cited all the things that Deby posts here. Now I know more about France than I did then I understand completely although the idea of a French Mrs T fills me with dread.

Hoddy

[bryansmith]

whatever anyone thinks of Margaret Thatcher they cannot deny that she made England a stronger, better country than it was before. The strong economy inherited by Labour was entirely due to  measures taken under the Tories.

Anyone who thinks it must be Labour again should be made to stay in England and suffer the consequences.

It is because of the state of England after Labour mismanagement and lies that we are moving to France.

[Teamedup]

And you really know that much about France  and it's political life  Bryan Smith?

 

[bryansmith]

we have spent over half of our lives in France over the last four years.

We like France and the French people very much. The lifestyle in the area where we are going to live is exactly what we want out of life.

I know that whatever the political situation is in France the country is more suitable for our needs than present day England. It seems that I am not the only one thinking like this. If not why are so many people making the same move and thoroughly enjoying it according to the vast majority of postings.

 

[Inquisitive]

I am starting to wonder if I have misunderstood political development in the UK over the past 20 - 25 years. As I understand it, the majority of the population voted for Mrs T and her successor primarily because she would charge them less tax, at that point in time no one questioned what they would lose in return. 

It seems a little hypocritical that now our country is suffering from the results of the ensuing under-investment in the health service, education, transport, etc. in spite of Mr Blair's best efforts, France is now deemed to be a better place to live politically.  In my opinion, we too could have a good transport system, cleaner streets,a wonderful health service and a better education system, if in the past we hadn't voted it away in favour of paying less tax.  You don't get anything for nothing.

Claire

[Hegs]

>It is because of the state of England after Labour mismanagement and lies that we are moving to France.

I'm always intrigued when people say things like this. So who would you vote for to make the UK more like France, and what would their policies be?

[Tresco]

'you don't get anything for nothing'

That's so simple and so true. Perhaps I am a bit perverse, but when I started paying higher levels of tax I was proud, and glad to contribute to society that way. MOH has a different view, slightly, but then he payed more tax in a month than I earnt for a long time

And to Brian Smyth, well I would have to be first on the boat back to England, (which I count myself lucky to have been born and brought up in), by your reckoning, for thinking the way I still do about Thatcher.

Have you got somewhere lined up for when you don't like the way France is run? I think you will be getting a few surprises, but that said, of course I sincerely hope all goes well for you.

tresco

[JohnM]

EDIT : I spent so long typing that I didn't manage to follow Inquisative. I meant to

Ermm... I'm not sure if that argument holds true as the Labour Party is now nearing the end of it's second term of office, they've had quite a long time to sort things out.

I have a theory that a Government spends the first half of it's first term undoing the stupidity of the previous lot, then spend the second half of that first term bringing in some good things of their own. That continues into the first half of the second term, but by the second half of the second term they start doing silly things - ready for the cycle to start again. Quite where the theory fell apart with 4 terms of Tory, I don't know.

What I am sure of is that we are better off when a government doesn't have too big a majority. That way they really do have to think about what they are doing.

 

[Kingdingaling]

Bryan Smith =  The kind of response I would expect from a Volvo estate owner.

How will you know exactly the kind of life you will have in France.

You say its because of the state of the country is the reason why people are moving to France.

Many people couldn't afford to holiday in France pre-Labour never mind move here.

 

[bryansmith]

just one more comment then I will give up on this thread - if all the people who were so enamoured with Labour and its policies were happy to stay in England why are they now in France.

People are quite right I don't know what living France is like until I try it - I only know that I don't like living in England any more and that the lifestyle we have experienced in France suits us better.

[Teamedup]

BS, you have got me there. I have no idea why people flood over here, although not a huge percentage will stay either.

 

[SaligoBay]

 You don't get anything for nothing.

So true!!   If you saw the list of cotisations on TOH's bulletin de paie you'd fall over!    Around 20% gone already, before you even think about tax.

According to Ted Stanger's book, every one of us pays about 55 euros a year towards the SNCF.   Has no-one heard French people complaining about having to contribute towards paying off the Credit Lyonnais debt, la dette nationale, the British (whipped along by the press) would go mental at the thought of paying for the govt's ineptitude!   Or to subsidise Chirac's high living.

Thatcher appealed blatantly to people's individual greed, she would no doubt have said "why should I pay for SNCF, I never use the train".      

I can't see a true Thatcherite being happy with The French Way, there's too much talk of solidarité.  Remember that every time you go to the doctor now, you're giving up your 1 euro for solidarité with those who have been abusing the system for years.     

[Miki]

Bryan Said “ whatever anyone thinks of Margaret Thatcher they cannot deny that she made England a stronger, better country than it was before. The strong economy inherited by Labour was entirely due to measures taken under the Tories….”

Stronger, well possibly but debatable in my opinion that it would not have been a stronger place anyway, as the years passed by and as far as a better country, goodness man, you are now reaping the problems the country, inherited from her selfish Tory policies, greed, greed and more greed and look after number one !

Brian said “Anyone who thinks it must be Labour again should be made to stay in England and suffer the consequences”

What an extremely strange, or as they say here “bizarre” reply, if anyone thinks it must be Labour, then voted Labour., then obviously they would be happy to stay and any Tories who want to leave, should go to Spain or Florida, where the G&T brigade are more than willing to bore you with long winded stories about how wonderful it was when Maggie was on the throne !!!

Bryan said “…It is because of the state of England after Labour mismanagement and lies that we are moving to France.

And that never happened in the long years of Tory government then, so how strange that they got voted out in a landslide defeat followed by another humiliating defeat a few years ago. Surely, even you can see that as an opposition, they have been a disgrace. They are now recognized by political historians as being the worst opposition in modern times.

Brian said” I know that whatever the political situation is in France the country is more suitable for our needs than present day England…..”

But that simply means sticking in your head in the sand, to avoid any knowledge of how it is here for many folks, you could just as easily find a sleepy place in Britain and do the same thing.

Bryan said “….It seems that I am not the only one thinking like this. If not why are so many people making the same move and thoroughly enjoying it according to the vast majority of postings….

”

Now let’s see….a vastly inflated housing market with record selling prices that enable a much higher percentage than ever before to sell up and buy outright. When Maggie was in power, that opportunity was pretty much denied due to the boom and bust created by the Tories, now with the exchange out of the hands of the government, they cannot tamper with it, to help cover up serious monetary problems. TV programmes that show just how easy it is to live here, find work and make a good living etc. etc...........

Brian said “ ….just one more comment then I will give up on this thread - if all the people who were so enamoured with Labour and its policies were happy to stay in England why are they now in France….”

Incredible Brian, so what you are saying in reality is, it should be obligatory to stay in your home country if you agree with that countries politics. Be sensible for goodness sake, debate is one thing, uttering points like that make no sense at all.

[Tourangelle]

Bryan Smith - there is a whole thread 'Why did you leave England' in the postbag to answer your question. Generally it is for a more relaxing lifestyle. Most people underline how much they like Britain but just wanted to do something different. It is a pity you are so dissatisfied with Britain, France may cure you of that! I love Britain and I love France, but it is France that I would have left for political reason : if Le Pen had been elected in 2002.

[Inquisitive]

I feel strongly that there are many reasons why one might want to move to France, and for me the politics of England have nothing to do with it. Indeed, unless one was concerned about the right leaning tendency of our 'Labour' party, I can see no reason for that to make anyone want to move to a country with a strong Left tradition

I would have thought that the amount of upheaval involved in moving country would imply that one would need far more reason than the current political climate, to make such a move.  I have wanted to live in France since I was a small child having had a francophile father - I blame it all on the parents!

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Miki,once again your head is in the clouds or up somewhere which the sun does not shine.are you saying that the UK under labour would of got better if maggie had not got in?

France is crap if you are minded to start some sort of business,some people find that out sooner rather than later,some folk suffer and pay up to the french way but are still here in france,roll may 29 and just to make miki feel at home OUT OUT OUT, of the EU that is

[Hegs]

Of course the "best" approach for an individual is to work lifelong in a low tax, low service country until age, health needs or the fact your pile is big enough make working unattractive, then retire to a high tax country to reap the benefits of everyone elses tax.

Sucks but there appears to be no way to stop people leeching like this.

[Miki]

outie said " Miki,once again your head is in the clouds or up somewhere which the sun does not shine.are you saying that the UK under labour would of got better if maggie had not got in?"

Oh I sure am outie, what got better under Maggie, did I miss something ?

Education No : Hospitals No : The poor No : Well very little did, except if you think that buying your council house made you middle class of course !

outie said "...roll may 29 and just to make miki feel at home OUT OUT OUT, of the EU that"

Don't be daft, we have to stay in, I want to keep the euros, it would be a nightmare to go back to individual currencies now, I guess that would be part of leaving the EU ?

Good post Hegs and how true, we came with very little by the way and that's how it's stayed !!

i,mhereineurope