Priorité à droite AGAIN!

[SaligoBay]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but the search facility is doing that timeout thing.

Our village (of almost 2000) has just got rid of all its Stop signs.   We are now entirely (and for the moment dangerously!) priorité à droite.

I thought France was trying to get rid of this system?

[Dick Smith]

There's still a lot of it about in rural Normandy. This year I almost got wiped out by a 306 who had no intention of looking/stopping. Fortunately I had. Also fortunately the herd of cows that claimed priorité were going a bit slower...

[Mpprh]

Hi

it is probably safest to work on the assumption that "priority from the right" is the only rule of the road that is always obeyed.

And, if it is not obeyed, you will be safe (or safe-ish ?)

It is much more aggressively followed in some of the other European countries.

 Peter

 

[BJSLIV]

Removing road signs, traffic lights, stop signs etc is the latest thing in traffic planning.

A town in Holland has removed the lot, including pedestrian crossings. The idea is that by giving a feeling of insecurity, eevryone takes more care, slows down, hence less accidents. It seems to work too!

It gets covered on both French and UK TV from time to time.

So perhaps Priorite a Droit will be able to make a real comeback as part of this new movement.

This gives a flavour of things to come, and its cheaper than speed camera.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

[Dick Smith]

I saw that on TV, and it looked very interesting. Another good reason for that approach is that it reduces the amount of signage and intrusive street furniture and road markings. There is also the French attitude to parking - provide a lot, free, and when it's gone you are on your own. If you screw things up for other people they will let you know! Our local authority in UK has started taking out speed humps and 'traffic calming measures' as they have proved very unpopular and there is an election coming up - or am I being unduly cynical?

I once have a lift to the chairman of the transport committee, who told me that all the speed humps were carefully designed so that they could be taken at 20mph. So I did. Only the seat belt stopped his head from hitting the roof (and it almost tore the front suspension off a Volvo). He agreed after that that 20mph was a bit optimistic.

[Mpprh]

[quote]I saw that on TV, and it looked very interesting. Another good reason for that approach is that it reduces the amount of signage and intrusive street furniture and road markings. There is also the Fre...[/quote]

Hmm

I guess that explains the popularity of 4X4's

Peter

 

[Dick Smith]

There are some points about big 4x4s which aren't so daft in towns - high seating position (especially if you are petite), tough suspension for the humps, lots of protection in accidents, big bull bars to reduce the inconvenience of stopping at zebra crossings, easy to get up the pavement when parking on yellow lines outside the primary school, lots of space for stuff from Harvey Nicks...

[Coco]

Just about ALL of our American guests have been very grateful for me explaining this ridiculous bit of French highway code to them.  I can't believe that it hasn't long since been abandoned!

[RayB]

[quote]Just about ALL of our American guests have been very grateful for me explaining this ridiculous bit of French highway code to them. I can't believe that it hasn't long since been abandoned![/quote]

**Just about ALL of our American guests have been very grateful for me explaining this ridiculous bit of French highway code to them.**

How strange! That has been the rule since I got my first license 56 years ago. It is part of the written test. Words to the effect - 'At unmarked intersections, the vehicule to the right has the right-of-way'.

However, you reminding them certainly can't hurt and I'm sure it is appreciated.

[Coco]

How strange!  Perhaps they can see it for the stupid rule that it is and didn't think the French would have it too!!

[RayB]

[quote]How strange! Perhaps they can see it for the stupid rule that it is and didn't think the French would have it too!![/quote]

**Perhaps they can see it for the stupid rule that it is**

Really?? If 4, or in some cases more, roads merge at the same unmarked intersection and 4 or more cars arrive at the same time, who goes first? Should there NOT be a protocol? To me, it would be stupid and extremely dangerous not to have one.

[Teamedup]

Ofcourse it is a stupid rule.

Today someone took their priority in the centre of a village. They didn't even glance left to see if there was anyone coming along. It isn't anything to do with etiquette and cross roads in France as far as I can tell. In general it is side roads coming on to main roads and the person on the main road having to watch out constantly. They are dangerous.

 

Crossroads and etiquette, well people usually sort themselves out without aggravagation.

[Loiseau]

I can only think of a couple of intersections - town or country - in the Vendée with priority to the right. 
But I have had a few close shaves when driving around St-Nazaire (Loire Atlantique) where people whizz merrily out into your path with never a glance.

But Northern France, now...   It seems to be priorité à droite everywhere in the Nord and the Pas-de-Calais.  I think I have it sussed now: when you see the triangular warning sign with the broad vertical and small horizontal line, you're on the more "main" of the roads, but when you see the sign with the X on it - that's when you have to worry.
Of course, in towns you don't get those... 

Angela

www.the-vendee.co.uk

[RayB]

[quote]Ofcourse it is a stupid rule. Today someone took their priority in the centre of a village. They didn't even glance left to see if there was anyone coming along. It isn't anything to do with etiquet...[/quote]

** In general it is side roads coming on to main roads and the person on the main road having to watch out constantly.**

Never seen one that wasn't either a 'Stop' or 'Cedez le Passage' and you will note I said 'unsigned'.

Anyway, Happy Motoring!

[SaligoBay]

If it was at least consistent, that would be a whole lot better!   Some places have it, some places don't.  

What if I'm trying to get out of somewhere that isn't actually a road?   How big does an exit have to be before you can claim priority?   A dirt track?  A shop's parking place?

I'm only surprised because the last I heard, they were trying to phase it out.   

[RayB]

[quote]If it was at least consistent, that would be a whole lot better! Some places have it, some places don't. What if I'm trying to get out of somewhere that isn't actually a road? How big does an ...[/quote]

**What if I'm trying to get out of somewhere that isn't actually a road? How big does an exit have to be before you can claim priority? A dirt track? A shop's parking place?**

Well . . . . I use common sense and caution and it seems to work. I know that leaves me with nothing to complain about but what the hell! The right of way applies to streets and roads.

[Dick Smith]

You are only calling it stupid because you don't like it. Presumably lots of people like it, or it wouldn't be observed or retained on statute. I don't see that it makes any more or less sense than priority from the left or above or whatever, so long as you know where you stand. In our part of Normandy it's pretty clear, both signage and unmarked junctions giving you the information. There are no pad turns onto main roads, it's all in small towns or on C roads. Not a problem unless you ignore it.

[Teamedup]

I could take you places around here, especially in summer where the verdure blocks not only the signs that there is a 'x roads' ahead, but the road itself. And they do have priority over a very well used thoroughfare.

Not all are completely hidden ofcourse, but there are many of them never the less, both in the countryside and the villages. One village reintroduced it after having a stop sign at that junction for years.

[RayB]

[quote]You are only calling it stupid because you don't like it. Presumably lots of people like it, or it wouldn't be observed or retained on statute. I don't see that it makes any more or less sense than pr...[/quote]

**You are only calling it stupid because you don't like it.**

Exactly, Dick. Or - maybe some people's right-of-way is more important than other's right-of-way.

As an aside, I have a good friend in Looe who has a Cornish Lugger and we were out to sea one day when 'Marine right-of-way' is concerned relative to powered boats and ones under sail. In the official 'Rules of the Road' (Marine), sail has right-of-way. We agreed that whoever was bigger did. (g)

[Deimos]

Quote: “'Marine right-of-way' is concerned relative to powered boats and ones under sail. In the official 'Rules of the Road' (Marine), sail has right-of-way. We agreed that whoever was bigger did”

Its actually not quite as straight forward as that. A lot will depend on the situation and the vessels involved (and the waters you are in). Also, there are constraints about what somebody who has “right-or-way” can and cannot do and how they actually obtain that right-of-way.

The “priority a droit” may actually have come from the marine/air “rules-of-the-road” where (subject to constraints about vessel/aircraft types and waters/airspace), all things being equal, the vessel/aircraft with the other on its right gives way.

(Which does not mean I like the rule because I don’t and do think it is rather dangerous – slow moving traffic pulling out onto fast moving roads having right of way !!!).

Ian

[Loiseau]

I think the priorité à droite rule probably made a lot of sense in the days of the horse and cart, but nowadays - with vehicles shooting out of smaller roads at 50kph or more - it's got a lot more dangerous.

For example, I was staying in the village of Fillievres (62) in June, and the smaller road (D101) had priority over the traffic coming along the much more major D340 (from Frévent to Hesdin).
(If you type fillievres into www.mappy.fr, you will see what I mean.

I couldn't believe it the first morning, when I was arriving at the junction from the D101, and traffic on the main rroad stopped to let me out     I would never have thought of stopping if I had been on that D340 - but I was jolly careful about it for the rest of my stay!

Angela

[andyh4]

As I said on the previous post on this subject, I agree TU it is potentially very dangerous, but nevertheless it is the law of the land and to be obeyed - so for those who did not see the Orange diamond sign or the straight up and down cross to show that you have priority, here are a couple more clues:

You will sometimes be able to see that there is a road sign on the road about to join yours.  Only rarely will you be able to see what it says, BUT..................

 

The only road sign that is an inverted triangle is a Give Way

AND

The only road sign that is octagonal is a Stop

 

So if either of those shapes are visible on the joining road, you have right of way.  If neither is visible or if no signs are visible - best assume that you don't.

 

Here in Germany PàD is being reintroduced specifically as a traffic calming measure as was suggested earlier.

1.  It works

2.  It reduces the street signage - which in places is becoming rediculous

3.  It is cost free and requires no maintenance (to the tax payer at least).

 

 

[RayB]

[quote]Quote: “'Marine right-of-way' is concerned relative to powered boats and ones under sail. In the official 'Rules of the Road' (Marine), sail has right-of-way. We agreed that whoever was bigger did”Its...[/quote]

**Its actually not quite as straight forward as that.**

It was just a conversation not a dissertation!

'If you are going to hit something, try and make it a cheap one'

Later -

[Coco]

**You are only calling it stupid because you don't like it.**

Exactly, Dick. Or - maybe some people's right-of-way is more important than other's right-of-way.

Both of these statements are utter rubbish!  The reason it is stupid is nothing to do with not "liking" it and nothing to do with believing that some people are "more important" than others.  It's the inconsistency, the fact that some people follow the rule, others don't, that it is, as someone else has said, dangerous to pull out onto a larger road with the traffic already flowing at a faster speed when you're pulling off from a standing start (sometimes in one of those sewing-machine-on-wheels contraptions!)  And I think MOST importantly, the fact that one hell of a lot of visitors to the country know nothing about such a road law, not having it in their own country.  Now I know the answer to that is that in the case of an accident they would be in the wrong because the other person was in the right, or that people should make sure they are conversant with the laws of the other country.  But is that any consolation once you have already HAD the accident and possibly caused injury to someone!  And in reality, just how many people do you know of - especially from the UK - who make sure the are au fait witht he French highway code before driving here on their holidays?  Not many I would suggest - and certainly not many men, because, after all, you can all drive better than Michael Schumacher anyway, can't you

And as for how small does the road have to be is concerned SB, well, I think it must go down to the drive to your own house.  Certainly there are a few maniacs round here who come hurtling out of theirs without looking.  And although I now take caution because I KNOW where they are, I also know that a little further down the road are a couple of gites and often wonder whether the people renting them have any idea about this rule.

[RayB]

[quote]**You are only calling it stupid because you don't like it.** Exactly, Dick. Or - maybe some people's right-of-way is more important than other's right-of-way. Both of these statements are utter r...[/quote]

** And in reality, just how many people do you know of - especially from the UK - who make sure the are au fait witht he French highway code before driving here on their holidays?**

That is obvious and THAT is stupid.

Years ago I spent a lot of time on business in Dallas and Ft Worth. The custom there was when the traffic light changed, two cars were allowed to make a left (right in UK) before opposing traffic started. Try that in the UK. Also, in many states in the US a right (left in UK) turn is allowed on a red light if there is no oncoming traffic or sign saying you couldn't.

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.