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Handicapped in France


Teamedup
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Saw something tonight about the difficulties handicapped people have in France.

 

Poor access to most things including taxis and the metro.Even when I am in big cities I rarely see wheelchairs, none of those scooter things either and from the article on les infos it isn't surprising as life looked difficult. I used to take the pram into a city centre when my son was a baby and that was bad enough trying to get around.

Also they had problems with employment and getting loans but I suspect that having decent employment would help with loans anyway.

 

 

 

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Yes I have noticed too the lack of facilities and help for handicapped people here in France compared to the UK when we lived there. One good example here is a very very popular local beach which gets packed in the summer with tourists - the only way down is steps cut into the dunes with no ramp or concrete access for a wheelchair or person with walking problems so it means they cannot too enjoy the same place,yet other not so nice beaches where you have to go miles to get to the water have sufficient access. There seems to be a lot of discrimination still.As for work,I sometimes get calls from different agencies dealing with handicapped people but have to explain that no way can a wheelchair-bound person do roofing or any building work which makes me feel awful at not being able to help.
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Right from the beginning I've wondered how on earth people in wheelchairs manage in France.  As TU said, it's bad enough with a child in a pushchair!   Apart from access to buildings, there's the habit of parking cars up on the pavement, which means you're forced onto the road.

The employment issue is something that comes up in the news now and again, it continues to be a problem.

There are relatively few wheelchairs out and about in France, even in the towns. 

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[quote]Right from the beginning I've wondered how on earth people in wheelchairs manage in France. As TU said, it's bad enough with a child in a pushchair! Apart from access to buildings, there's the habi...[/quote]

**There are relatively few wheelchairs out and about in France, even in the towns.**

As a wheelchair/4-wheel electric scooter user, here are a few comments.

Ten years ago we hardly saw any but now we see more and more. Normally, the largest town we are in is St. Malo (50,000) and we see them there and in smaller towns around us. Same in Rennes and Paris.

All it takes to lead a fairly 'normal' life is planning. We have about a dozen restaurants with access that we like which takes care of our dining out. Buildings with Medical facilities all have access. Malls and supermarkets are no problem. Hotels with access are everywhere, just do your homework . . . even centuries old chateaux. Many attractions do not but many do. On those that don't my wife takes pix with our digicam or camcorder and I get to see it anyway. We are very active and travel around France often. I can't fly anymore but we have visited nine countries and I have well over a million miles in aircraft and don't miss it a bit. People can fly with their own chairs or rent them at their desinations.

The secret is quite simple . . . Attitude! Face the fact that you are limited in certain areas and find ways around them or merely accept the fact that it can't happen.

Being retired, I don't have an employment problem. Still, there are social agencies everywhere with training available for those without skills. Jobs are available. I could work today if I wanted to.

Life is good . . . . it's up to the individual person to make it so.

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Jobs are available. I could work today if I wanted to.

Life is good . . . . it's up to the individual person to make it so.

Of course you could work today, Ray, because you're not French, and you have a lifetime of influential contacts built up.

I thought we were talking about ordinary, everyday people, born and brought up in France, who face discrimination in the workplace - if they can find a workplace at all.   Not rich expats who spend their time dining out and gadding about on holiday.

And thanks for the moral lecture!

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UK

Daughter 33 - waited 18 months for an urgent wheelchair as the old NHS one was broken (chairs have to be bespoke) as was the one SHE paid £8.000 for - please do not say she gets attendance allowance, the chairs last 3 to 4 year at the most, need constant upkeep and are in bits before she has finished paying for them - she is unable to get out of bed without one. Never been assessed or offered a chance to do a job. Has to wait until her helper is ready to get her up - so sometimes misses the bus and has to pay £12 for a taxi into the day centre - oh yes, they cut all taxi help for the disabled this year as it was seen as discriminatory for the able bodied. She does on average 6 x £12 taxi journeys a week as there is no transport to the day centre - so she is cutting back more and more and spending her days watching SKY paid for by her brother - a great life for a 33 year old. Disabled housing is not near the town centre so she is stuffed. She is also getting less and less money each year so her life gets worse each year - you either get adept at begging various social service departments or you never leave your accommodation.

If you are a very intelligent disabled person with a degree you might get to live a slightly normal life, otherwise things are far from perfect. Won't bother you with the dead kidney they left in her for 17 months on the assumption she would die (they told us that) - she did not - just got chronic scepticimia and finally they sent her for treatment. When she was discharged from the Westminster and Chelsea hosptial they had to put her in an old peoples home as they were so sure she would die they did not bother to make any provision for her care. The place stank and I was advised that it was highly infected but there was no where else to put her. We lived in a one room flat at the time and I was also very ill and having operations so we just had to put up with it.

The disabled are still in the early 19th century in the UK if you fall into certain streams - lets not forget all the people they 'removed' from the old mental hospitals and rehoused on the streets.

France may not be perfect but using the UK as an example of what is 'good' shows that you have never been at the sharp end.

Rant over - As Ray said, it can be done, just takes a bit of planning and there are quite a few disabled people in our area of the Lot.

My daughter wants to live on her own in the UK - she has decided that she wants her life on her terms. She is very brave - far more than I ever would be.

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[quote]UK Daughter 33 - waited 18 months for an urgent wheelchair as the old NHS one was broken (chairs have to be bespoke) as was the one SHE paid £8.000 for - please do not say she gets attendance allowan...[/quote]

**My daughter wants to live on her own in the UK - she has decided that she wants her life on her terms. She is very brave - far more than I ever would be.**

Good for her, Di! With that attitude she has every chance of doing so and I wish her every possible success.

Insofar as you not being as brave as her, sometimes you don't find out until such time as you actually face it yourself. One tends to find out more about oneself when faced with adversity.

You should be very proud of her.

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Thanks for that Ray, I have Ataxia today due to a drug I am on and it seems cannot do without (trust me I can't). Walking around holding onto everything I pass to avoid a fast meet with the floor makes me realise just how quickly things change - 2 days ago I was on my stepper and having a great time. This hopefully will pass - but it is signs of things to come.

Off to cook the dinner - well it is a very bijou kitchen so I can sit and manage it all. Hopefully tomorrow the floor and walls will stay where they are supposed to be and I will be able to get out.

Great for the link re scooters. If Sarah comes over next year I will have to try to get a carer to drive her over - they can have a free holiday here - own accommodation, I just need to get someone who is qualified to drive her over and give some help with her personal care. Obviously my days of driving to the UK look like they might be over

Take care - and thanks for just being here.

-----------------------------------------------

Sorry I hijacked the post folks - but when I read about the golden world for the disabled the UK seems to be I just want folk to realise that it is not - it can be and is dire.

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[quote]Thanks for that Ray, I have Ataxia today due to a drug I am on and it seems cannot do without (trust me I can't). Walking around holding onto everything I pass to avoid a fast meet with the floor make...[/quote]

**Take care - and thanks for just being here.**

Anytime!

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I believe there are two separate issues raised here. Firstly, one of limited mobility person access and secondly limited mobility person community care.

I cannot comment on comparisons between the care of limited mobility persons in the community between France and the UK.

However,  the UK is far more proactive in enforcing limited mobility person access rights. I am not sure if this is to the credit of the UK government, but more due to the the fact that charitable groups representing limited mobility people in the UK, are far more effective in lobbying government and getting disabled access rights enforced. Also in setting up programmes like 'Shopmobility', where loan scooters and wheelchairs are provided in shopping and town centres.

There may also be a cultural issue at play, in terms of public attitudes towards limited mobilty persons, between the countries.

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[quote]I believe there are two separate issues raised here. Firstly, one of limited mobility person access and secondly limited mobility person community care. I cannot comment on comparisons between the ca...[/quote]

**There may also be a cultural issue at play, in terms of public attitudes towards limited mobilty persons, between the countries.**

Perhaps, there is some difference,I really don't know. One very big difference is architectural (sp?). Many French buildings are impossible to provide for such.

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[quote]I believe there are two separate issues raised here. Firstly, one of limited mobility person access and secondly limited mobility person community care. I cannot comment on comparisons between the ca...[/quote]

**There may also be a cultural issue at play, in terms of public attitudes towards limited mobilty persons, between the countries.**

It would be interesting to know if there is a difference in the number of disabled in each since the population in both is about the same. I see far fewer here than I did in the UK but then that could be the 'mobility' thing and they are just not out and about here.

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Having had Multiple Sclerosis for 25 years and a wheelchair user for most of this time,Having also been chairperson of various disabled groups over the years in the UK and now living in France for the past 2 years, I feel qualified to speak on the subject of Disability. My first point is that I wish people would stop referring to people with disabilities as 'Handicapped' or 'Invalid', as both words are derogatory to start with.; handicapped means 'cap in hand' and invalid means 'in valid'. I am neither a beggar nor a person who is invalid in society.

When Coming to France it was never my intention to compare one country to another but to look at the positives of both. Yes, France does have many negatives regarding accessibilty, however it also has some very positive attitudes compared to the UK. One example: I've never had to queue in Paris for Galleries.Taxi's etc,but at their insistence, I've been put to the front of the queue.

It is true that in the UK money and Social services for people with disabilities is on the decline. It is important that in life we help each other and I think you'll find that people with disabilities can offer richness, a depth of sensitivity and understanding and quite often humility which society can learn from.(Employers, please take note)!!

How do we measure civilisation? Surely it's by the measure that society affords to those who cannot best look after themselves.

Stuart

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If handicap derived from 'cap in hand' we would call it a 'capihand', surely? In fact it comes from 'hand in cap', referring to handicaps in races etc., from a game whereby two betters would engage a neutral umpire to determine the odds in an unequal contest. The betters would put their hands holding forfeit money into a hat or cap. The umpire would announce the odds and the bettors would withdraw their hands -- hands full meaning that they accepted the odds and the bet was on, hands empty meaning they did not accept the bet and were willing to forfeit the money. If one forfeited, then the money went to the other. (copied from an etymological dictionary) - the Snopes definition is pretty good.

Invalid comes from the Latin, 'in' (not) + 'validus' (strong), hence, not strong.

Why do people believe these myths?

Often see 'Si tu prend ma place, prend ma handicape' in disabled parking bays.
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[quote]I'm handicapped, an invalid, disabled or any other names people want to call it. What does it matter!? Could it come from ca[/quote]

Well, in my experience don't bother going hand in cap or cap in hand or foot in mouth or...in England.

Classisfied as an invalid in England, I moved to France. They agreed. Now back in London, I am amazed to learn that I am valid. I can't move all that much, mind you, but I am valid.

Sadly, this has a negative effect on my heating bills, cab fares, electricity for the scooterthingy and so forth.

On the whole, being INvalid was preferable.

No offence is meant; please don't take me out and shoot me.

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