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Should we have a new Forum - Selling French Property?


TrishT
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Not such a bad idea.

I have thought for a while there should be a forum for advice on leaving France to give a balance. Not to be negative, but to enable people to learn from other peoples experiences as why it did not work for them.

There have been several posts recently from members leaving France for one reason or another, and statistically a significant number of people moving to France from the UK do move on again within a few years. Not necessarily to return to the UK, but to other countries like Spain and Italy.

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The AI site allows people to advertise their properties for sale or rent privately. As long as no professionals do it on here, surely it can't make a lot of difference except that any interested people should be clear that if any problems which may occur are not the responsibility of LF and its forum administrators. Maybe a good idea to make it so that you cannot reply, only PM or e.mail privately to keep any stupid comments out of the postings.
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Could someone tell me how to go about registering a couple of friends of mine to work on my site in france ? I'm not concerned with guarantees and insurance as it's painting and decking they're doing, but I don't really want anyone driving by the site and questioning their right to work there. What is the likelihood of this ?

 

If I have to register them, where do I do it, and how do I get the paperwork ?

The site is in Normandie

Thanks in advance for any help.

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AI is an advertising site without any affiliation to a magazine where a source of income is advertising property for sale, both by agents and privately.

When people have problems with their sale we do get questions, but often by then the sale has already been made.

I do think there is a case for a good FAQ - anyone volunteering ?

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NewPM. Its not as simple as that in France. If you start to register as a builder,carpenter etc you start to open a very large can of worms regarding social security payments, health,unemployment,taxe professionnelle and pension payments as well as possible TVA registration and usually only persons fiscally resident in France as Titre de Séjours are often still required, may register with proof of their qualifications or running a business previously in the UK for a number of years.There is also the compulsory week-long course you have to undertake at the Chambre de Metiers and these are not held very often either until sufficient applicants have registered to make it worth while for the organisers. Along with all this registration you have to have insurances by law to protect the worker from counter claims,the client and for giving a ten year guarantee on works carried out and this is very expensive. For your particular circumstances I really do not know what to suggest and cannot believe that your english workers would be prepared to move lock stock and barrell for all this legally and learn french as well just for one job. You really should employ french registered artisans and help the economy here instead of importing black labour which will have repercussions if discovered and the french neighbours will report this without batting an eyelid. Whatever you do, make sure your workers have adequate health cover because if not,you are responsible for everything as their employer. Another problem you may not know about is the fact that should you wish or have to sell up your holiday home before 16 years ownership, only french TVA invoices can be used to offset any due capital gains.
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[quote]especially now everyone is getting out while they can! House hunting recently I got this impression too. Anyone know why? M[/quote]

There are probably as many individual reasons as there are sellers. But I think probably the biggest reasons are financial. People realise that they have opened a big money pit, with work on that dream house costing far more and taking far longer then they first realised. Also the reality of finding out that France is not really such a cheap country that you can live comfortably on rental income from a gite (which has probably failed to realise the desired occupancy levels due to over-capacity in the market). Savings run out, and pensions don't go as far as expected. Also the slow-down in Britain means that some are having to sell off assets and investments, of which holiday homes are probably the first to go. I could go on, but you get the picture. It has become a cliché here, but it's true that TV has a lot to answer for.

I think the forum presents a pretty balanced view on the respective benefits and disadvantages of French life without having to create a special section to deal with the negatives.

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[quote]especially now everyone is getting out while they can! House hunting recently I got this impression too. Anyone know why? M[/quote]

Fed up with the attitude of the French towards the Brits.  If they don't want us then fair enough, there are plenty of other places only too happy to welcome us, Spain for instance.  We're going, my brother's going, two of our near English neighbours are going. These riots are just the icing on the cake.

 

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[quote]TrishT, I am sorry to hear you and your neighbours are so unhappy. Out of interest where are you located? Are you anywhere near the riots?[/quote]

Located in Nice.  It's not the riots as such, problems have been brewing for some time, especially in this city.  It has been going downhill for a few years, you've only got to look at the graffiti and the gangs hanging about which are getting larger and the police don't do anything.  We were in Grasse recently (supposedly a touristy place) and were intimidated by a group of arab youths but lucky for us the gendarmes turned up.  I think that incident made my mind up, it's time to go.  But the attitude of the French is what really gets to me.  If they know you're English they do their best to ignore you even though I do speak french my accent is obviously English. I'm no longer comfortable with it all and am very disappointed after putting in so much effort.  My near neighbours are also leaving, one couple is going to Majorca and the others are going back to UK. I love this beautiful country but sadly, I can't love the people.
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Topic seems to have moved on from selling to houses to reasons to depart France – which is actually a much more interesting discussion. My own experience is that life is what you make of it. Most people around the place are looking for pretty much the same out of life, particularly in a western European culture. Of course there will be some French people to don’t take a “shine” to some Brits. There will also be some Brits who don’t appreciate every French person. In the village I use to live in the UK there was loads of bitching between Brits.

There is this great story (that I actually read on this forum but cannot remember who posted it – sorry I cannot acknowledge the source and sorry for mis-quoting it), but:

A pair of monks stand guard at the entrance to a small city.

One night a family knock on the gates asking admission to the city. They ask the monks what the people are like. "What were they like where you lived before?" "Nasty, tale telling, untrustworthy people. " The monks say "You will find them much the same here." The family up and leave in search of somewhere better.

The second night another family arrive and a similar discussion takes place. The family reply warmly "Oh they were the salt of the earth, friendly, kind and helpful." The monks say "You will find people much the same here." The monks open the gates to the family, and they live happily ever after.

Ian
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I agree with Deimos and have seen that posting before as well, however, I do understand what TrishT is saying as. That area of France has always been my favourite and spent quite a bit of time there a few years ago searching for a house, particularly Dept. 84. I saw some of the problems TrishT is speaking about and I am sure it has only become worse in the last two years. Everyone seems to know about the problems in and around Marseille but do not hear too much about the problems in the other areas even the deepest parts of Provence.

After looking in many areas we did eventually buy our place in Dordogne. The agent we bought our house from is from Provence and had made a decision to leave because of crime and other problems. He said it got to a point where they couldn't put flower pots outside of their house because they would always be stolen.  It is very sad because it is such a beautiful area full of history. I did find the people living in that area a little different than those in other parts of rural France as well perhaps it is to do with being closer to larger cities and also having a larger population could possibly tend to make people a little less friendly. I am so sorry to hear about your story and to hear that your dream has been shattered, just hope you can find what you are looking for with your next move. Best of luck. 

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For me several factors including, weather, available property (i.e. land, outbuildings and isolated). I regarded moving to France as just a move rather than emigrating. I don’t regard myself as a visitor in France – its where I live. To me its all part of Europe. Maybe a few more differences between UK and France than Avon and e.g. Oxon, but same principle.

Just me though

Ian

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I can't help thinking much of this boils down to not really doing sufficient homework in advance.  The attitude of the French towards foreigners, especially in the grandes villes, and Grasse is sadly pretty much that these days, is legendary.  The crimewave too in the South of France has been around for 15+ years.  And athough the extent of the current riots is shocking, the fact that they've happened can't come as any surprise to anyone with the merest knowledge of French immigration and associated social problems over the last thirty years.  Anyone who has ever had a terrace laid or a kitchen extended in Britain will know that dealing with builders even at home in your own language is a nightmare of epic proportions, so why expect a smooth, easy and coming in on budget renovation job in deepest France?  Sorry folks but I think it's a case of leaving brains behind at Dover.....or should that be Stanstead nowadays?  M
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The thread of this subject seems to be going off at several tangents. But as far as the original post I think it would be a good idea to have a new forum about Selling French Property.

There was a survey I saw in the Telegraph some months ago which stated that just of 50% of Brits who start a new life abroad return to the UK after two years, this is not just from France mind you.

In view of these statistics,there must be some merit in a forum for selling up, but with the obvious safeguards for "no advertising" one only has to pick up and read an article in FPN to see that almost every article is trying to sell something.

As far as the quote "especially now everyone is getting out while they can!" well I have seen or heard no evidence of that.

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[quote]A few snags to do that on a non advertising site - we would be forever deleting posts that are advertising by the back door.Of course if you would actually like to pay the mods what you may save on ag...[/quote]

Only if they are able to give a valid receipt and are paying cotisations etc

There are a lot of British owner properties for sale.  The dreamers and schemers are starting to leave.  This is not shangri-la as any working resident will tell you.

However, for those who are prepared, have done their research and are willing to make an effort to integrate and enjoy the French way of life. It ain't bad.

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In this neck of the woods (as yet unsullied by the common-or-garden petrol bomb) interest in buying property is as firm as ever it was, according to the only estate agent I know. What IS different is the tone of the buying interest, so she says, with much less interest from second homers (the second home being a pretty damned expensive item in these hard times) and more from those seeking permanent accomodation in the rural idyll.

More interesting is the number of French moving out of the big cities (even those still roughly intact) and resuming a village life. The concept of telecommuting, it would seem, is finally arrived. From my (selfish) point of view, I confess that I find this preferable. Permanent residents = more lively village, while lots of second homes = closed post office.

Would a move to Spain be so much different to France? Those few I know who live (or have lived) there describe what can only be called British ghettos (even some gated estates with armed guards - armed private security being a legal possibility in Spain, it would seem) or a rural life blighted by a bureaucracy that makes France look like a drink of water. Mind you, they may have been trying to deter me from visiting. My own experince, which is mostly limited to time spent on business trips to Madrid, left me with the impression of a perfectly charming country.
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[quote]I read somewhere (I’m afraid I cannot remember where but is was quite a few months ago) that last year (2004) was the first year where there had been a net movement of people from the cities to the co...[/quote]

Ian - Sounds about right. So far in 2005 we've had arrivals from Paris, Lyon and an unspecified location "down south." They are even buying fixer-uppers (integrating with local Brits? Possibly...) and lavishing vast sums on them.

One lad explained that inside every urban Frenchman there is a peasant just itching to breakout and get the soil back under their fingernails.
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