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Can I ask for advice on what forms of heating you have found to be practical and the most cost effective please?

This is our first winter here in France and at the moment we use our fire (insert) in the evenings but use an electric convector heater and an electric oil heater during the day, but am concerned about the size of our next electricity bill

Can anyone recommend something that they have found to be more cost effective?

Many thanks for your advice.

Lou (Aveyron)

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Overall, the insert cheminée should be your best bet, but only if it works!  And if logs are free or at least not too expensive where you are.

They're hit and miss affairs, and we've had 2 misses now in the houses we've been in here.

Ours has to be constantly nursed - if you go out for more than an hour the fire will be dead as a dodo when you get back.   No chance of it staying on overnight either. 

A good one will burn for ages and ages on one or two logs, and will leap into action in the morning as soon as you look at it.  Oh, and it'll give out heat as well! 

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Yes, the insert Cheminée works very well, but the only way we benefit from the heat is with the door open, so feel disinclined to leave it unattented!  Also, witht the door shut, it draws a lot quicker and consumes wood at a rate of knotts!  It's brilliant of an evening when OH and I have finished whatever we have been doing for the day and settle down to watch TV or read, and it heats our bedroom above with some very clever little vents into the flue.  Our problem is that it doesn't help heat the kitchen or the second bedroom and with mother arriving on 17th December, thought best to sort this out soon!

Thanks.

Lou (Aveyron)

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From talking to people who spend the winter in France they all,say  that you have to invest in a decent logburner in the big DIY stores they tell you which logburners stay in all night and the ones that dont.Also one with a big output will heat a very large area keeping doors open.Otherwise it is oil central heating which is expensive to install and not cheap to run.If you need a short term fix how about halogen heaters that give a good output  but do not use much electricity.Ypou could put them on timers in the bedroom.They sell them everywhere in the U.K perhaps you could buy them mailorder.Good Luck.Incidently I have been told oak burns slower and hotter a bit more expensive than ordinary wood but well worth it.
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Buy some good thermal underwear, thick jumpers, a hot water bottle and do lots of housework/exercise to keep warm. I am determind not to put on the gas heating (which has doubled in price during the last 3 years) until December - luckily its been quite mild so far. The only problem I have had is when the MIL comes to stay - she has the central heating on 365 days a year and lives near Cambridge, not the coldest place in the UK. She has had to invest in some thermal underwear for her visits to France.
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Buy some good thermal underwear, thick jumpers, a hot water bottle and do lots of housework/exercise to keep warm.

You're not wrong there!  I decided this morning for the first time since being here that I needed to do some serious excercise.  Just 30 mins workout to a video was a real warmer-upper!

 

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In our first year we discovered parafin heaters and they are very good. We now have three electrically driven ones which have fans and are temp controlled. The parafin, or petrol as it is called here, can be bought from supermarkets, brico depots and even from petrol stations if you have old containers but you have to look around for them.

Unlike gas heaters they give of little water vapour (no running windows) are more economic (we are paying 15€ fo 20ltrs) and don't realy smell at all. All our friends that we have introduced them to think they are brilliant.

We set ours to 18 deg so once thy get to that temp they just tick over and raise the temp further to around 22 deg where they seem to stay. One cartridge load of fuel lasts about a week (I think they are 2 or 3 ltrs a fill). They also have a basic autostart timer so you can wake up to a warm house. Don't buy the expensive no smell fuel because it's around 10€ a container more and you only get a slight smell on startup with the ornidary cheap stuff which you get used to very quickly.

Couldn't recommend them highly enough. We still have our insert which we light about 30 mins before dusk mainly because it looks nice. Last night (-2 again) we had to open the patio door because we were just to hot, the temp got up to 25 deg in the lounge which is some 65 square metres and we have two parafin heaters and the fire. We also had the doors open to the rest of the house to let it circulate round.

The other thing to look at is getting better use out of your insert. Many of the good ones allow for hot air to be pumped from the chimney through  6" pipes to other areas of the house by using a low volume slow turning silent fan. These are usually located in the side pillars of the insert fire place. We can't do this with ours because we have a vaulted ceiling and the pipes would show but I have seen this system working and it does help raise the temp in other rooms.

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We still have our insert which we light about 30 mins before dusk mainly because it looks nice. Last night (-2 again) we had to open the patio door because we were just to hot, the temp got up to 25 deg in the lounge which is some 65 square metres

our room is half that size, and the insert has NEVER got it up to 25°!   We usually have to put the paraffin heater on when we're eating at the table in what we laughingly call the dining room - i.e. the other end of the room from where the fire is!

I know I posted about this last year, and I'm just starting to get twitchy about another cold, miserable winter watching expensive logs burning, and the heat going who-knows-where!  You do get more heat if you open the door, but you also get a lot of smoke. 

Tell you what, Ziggy, if you have the choice, stay in the UK for the winter, it's cheaper and warmer!   Just come over here for the summer.  What a wonderful life that would be, the best of both worlds!

 

 

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We are in town now so it is warmer than Chateau Dispair.

For years we have used the parafin heater.  Not the controllable type either, the cheap ones.  If it is very cold, I have an electric heater on low in the bedroom.

I find fires only get hot two minutes before you go to bed.

Must say that a normal temperature in a house is too hot for us now.  One advantage is that, touch wood, we haven't had a cold for years!

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Some might find this a useful rule of thumb: in terms of equivalent heating value , for good quality wood (is it widely appreciated that AFNOR actually define fire wood quality? It's true - there are three grades specifying the type of wood, moisture content and gross heating value in kW hours per stere. If you don't believe me, go and have a look at the wood display in Gamm Vert. Are we committing an offence by burning non-approved wood???? Should we be demanding a certificate of conformity????), and taking into account the relative efficiency of an insert versus an oil boiler:

1 stere = about 170l of heating oil;

So, if Le Clerc are selling at 62 centimes a litre (last time I looked - we don't use their stuff, we use CAVAC Optifouel for reasons I am not about to go into print about),

170 times 0.62 = 105.4 euros.

So if you are paying, say, 50 euros per stere and it's seasoned oak, ash, elm, etc then you are doing well. As I say, rule of thumb, not gospel.

We haven't turned the heating on either and are sticking to the insert until the children actually turn blue.
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Well if you havent had your heating on yest you must be related to the Eskimo!  We have been using ours log for the past fortnight in the evenings.

As to those petrol fires, they are a quick sourse of heat , but ours goes off as soon as breakfast is over, I cannot stand the type of heat it gives out and gives me a rotten headache

Mrs O

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We ahve 3 solar storage heaters which use use at night. We got them via a friend in Finland. They go on around 8pm and go off at 8am. I seem to remember that they cost about 1000€ each. you can also use extra cells and have them on all day also. With one cell to run and one to charge.

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[quote]In our first year we discovered parafin heaters and they are very good. We now have three electrically driven ones which have fans and are temp controlled. The parafin, or petrol as it is called here,...[/quote]

I would completely agree. The electronic ones are excellent. They have loads of additional safety features e.g. it the dogs bump them they automatically shut down (though the dogs have never even come close to knocking them over), if the do not have enough ventilation the shut off, etc.

I actually buy the middle grade paraffin, partly because when I purchased the heaters (I have two), the guy in the shop said that the one part of the heater that has a limited life is the burner and it is expensive to replace and that the higher grade fuels will make the burner last a lot longer. He had nothing to gain as he was not selling me the fuel. I pay €19 for 20L middle range stuff. You still get a slight smell on switching on or off but nothing people notice whilst running it.

Ian

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Quote [jond]: So if you are paying, say, 50 euros per stere and it's seasoned oak, ash, elm, etc then you are doing well. As I say, rule of thumb, not gospel.

Another aspect (which also includes e.g. paraffin heaters and the like) is that you are only heating the area where you want the heat. You are not spending money heating the e.g. under-floor between the boiler and 1st radiator, and not heating all the pipe work round the house, etc.

Ian

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This is a great subject of debate in France - and one to spark a good deal of controversy. Our builder is very nearly finished (sighs and loud applause), and even as I speak is girding-up his loins to instal a chimney breast and an 'insert'. He comes from the builders' school of thought that say a fireplace is mere "furniture". He's put gas central heating in for us - and secretely I think considers us mad to ask for a wood  burning fire.

Our voisins leap out of bed at the first hint of a falling tree, descending with chain saws and a wide array of dangerous instruments on anything remotely burnable. A few days ago a next door neighbour spent 2 hours waxing poet to us about the new wood-burning stove she's ordered. Its a triple burner (further applause) and very 'eco'. If you buy anything similar it qualifies as 'flame vert' and you get reduced VAT, and a cut in your tax d'hab, plus all the fun of being '0ne-up' on everyone else.

Our neighbour the other side showed us a book full of tables. It gives you the thermal values for all common wood - and detailed instructions on how to keep wood and when to burn it.

When my gear is all installed, (maybe by Christmas this year but more likely next) I'm probably going turn it all on full blast, sound a loud bell, and parade around behind my closed and double glazed windows completely starkers. Then I might dash outside and wander casually around the garden just to show what being British is all about.

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Wood is expensive where I live and so when natural gas came to the village we took gas heating and saved money. So for us gas is the cheapest, still expensive but cheaper than wood.

I hate cold and cool. Prior to our gas heating we used a little electric fan heater on 'those' evenings in spring and early autumn when there was a chill in the air, but only  in our living room. The fire would have been too hot and an electric fan just took the chill off.  We have a petrole heater but strictly for the workshop. Friends have them but no matter the fuel I can always smell them. Bit like those 'no smell' paints that I can always smell too.

 

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That's another frequent French pass-time in this neck of the woods - minding your nuts - walnuts in my case, and by no means good in their present condition. I agree with Teamed up, and I might just have to nip down to see Quillan before Christmas to have a look at his moles and sniff his fuel. I've never encountered a paraffin heater that didn't give-off a smell - but I'm willing to accept that French ingenuity has managed to crack that one too.

I forgot to say that we will feel less vulnerable with a wood burner because other forms of fuel are subject to such violent fluctuations in price these days. At least with wood, you can take your saw out in the dead of night and trust your neighbours won't notice the extra forestry work - all in the interests of ecology of course!

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Thanks everyone for your comments.  All very useful.  As for spending the winter back in the UK unfortunately we are not in a financial position to do this, but in a few years time my mother is moving to a centrally heated villa in Spain, so that certainly could be viable!! Haven't told mother yet though

The comments about petole heaters are especially useful as the OH was particularly interested in people's experiences of these as we have seen many for sale in the shops locally.

Also, he has turned into a maniacal wood gatherer.  Every time we go out for a walk he keeps spying piles of apparently unowned wood and earmarking them for our wood-pile.

Thanks again.

Lou.

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Hello

I built a new house and chose electricity(convectors) which work very well and to me seems ok cost wise. One of the advantages is that they are cheap to install if one breaks it is cheap to replace. This year I fitted reversible air con to my lounge dining room and one bedroom and find it really good. 

 

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Hello,

I was just reading this forum and wanted to recommend our system - I would be happy to say more and where we bought the stove if you PM me..

We wanted to stay away from gas / oil because of the price / env. impact and have installed a wood-burning stove, back boiler (including solar panels for just hot water). The stove heats 8 radiators and also heats our very large kitchen so it was even toasty last winter when it got to around minus 15! We have also found a very cheap source of wood from a local farmer - we burn 'rubbish' during the day and use a few large oak logs to keep the system going through the night.

Yes, it can sometimes be quirky and we have found that the heat output is lots better when the place was fully insulated (any new walls / loft / pipes) but we love it and don't miss gas at all.

Let me know if you want any more info,

Cheers, Anna

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Isn't good insulation the key anyway.

We had our wood burning insert which heated the whole house going 7 months a year for our first 15 years in the house. Then had the natural gas heating in  9 years ago and have never ever lit the fire since a LOT LOT cheaper for us and I haven't missed the wood burner at all.

I will be curious to see how much the gas bill ends up this year, but the wood is still expensive where I live.

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Insulation is most deffinately the key.  Last winter was our 1st in our unrenovated barn.  The temp dropped as low as -20 at times but we managed to keep 1 area warm by insulating very well and using just a tiny wood burner bought from a brocante.  Apart from that we used electric convecter heaters (2) in the caravan and our electric bill was over 700€ the only other electicity we used was for the basics 2 lights 2 sockets to run TV and fridge freezer.  The upside to this in a funny sort of way was that our water stayed frozen for most of the winter so our water bill was very small!!!

This year we have expanded our living space and so have invested in a insert with turbine (14kw) this is heating front room kitchen and dining room quite well the only thing left to do is fit a ceiling over the front room to keep the heat in!!

We also have 2 basic petrole heaters as a top up just in case!!

We only pay 35€ a stere for our wood and are determined to stay away from oil, gas or electic heting due to costs.  We will be installing arayburn type appliance eventually to run radiators for the upstairs rooms (when they finally get built)

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