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Geothermal Heating?


JJ
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We are considering installing a central heating system in our house. We have been looking at Geothermal Heating, has anyone out there got it already, and if so what do they think of it?

Installation, running costs and general pros and cons would be helpful as all we have so far is the sales blurb.

Any recomended installers/systems as well would be most helpful. We live in Dept 17 Charente Maritime.

Many thanks in advance.

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I have had “the experts” round (real experts, ADEME approved, etc.) and there are an awful lot of considerations about using renewable energy depending on the environment around your house. In my case I was just interested in being more energy efficient (i.e. solar, geothermal, aero-thermal, whatever). They decided solar would be best for hot water but not heating. Geothemal needs to be decently clear of the water table or it stops working properly. Remember that the water table rises in winter as well. Aero-thermal works best in dry air. Mists and fogs stop it working well and of course you tend to get mists and fogs in winter when you most want the heat.

I would suggest getting an ADEME approved person round to do a “technical investigation” and see what they propose. The people I had round were being very careful not to propose anything that would not be completely effective (if I’m cynical that might be because of the 10 yr guarantee they need to offer).

Ian

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Charly Musseau,(the plumber in the excellent Musseau team of builders) who are working on our house at present, offered us this kind of heating. We decided that as total cost of the renovation was on the border of what we could afford we would opt for conventional heating. We very much liked the environmental advantes though.

His contact details are 1 Rue des Bois, 17240 Saint-Fort Sur Gironde. Telephone: 05 46 49 57 84. As you can see he is in the very south of the Charente Maritime.

Bon chance,

Gus

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JJ If that is your swimming pool I hope that you are rather kidding about the 'grant' thing.  Some of us have to pay for our own stuff and cannot afford luxory swimming pools. And many french people can't even afford to buy anywhere, this is just the sort of thing that really really winds me up......... and I feel pretty sure that it would wind many french people up too.
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I believe grants are available as the French authorities take an enlightened view of the advantages of renewable energy. However these are only for main residences not maison secondaires.

Interesting ethical question - Is it OK to apply for this kind of grant if you can afford a swimming pool? I believe so. If you highmindedly refused to accept a grant when one was available, then would the fonctionaires give the money to a more deserving cause - I doubt it.

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Teamed Up

Yes the swimming is mine, but there is a clue in my website www.gites.gb.com

The primary reason I have a pool is for my gite business, which is forms part of my income. and before you ask, no I did not get any grants from Gites de France, it was all my own money. I very rarely get enough time to use my luxury pool!

And this is not some fancy holiday home because I have too much money, (I wish) I actually live here.

Rant over, my point was about government grants being offered as an incentive to people to use environmentally friendly energy, which at the end of the day might help us all.

I use this forum a lot, but personally I do a bit peeved when one asks a simple question and you get derogatory or not very helpful replies. I know we all have a right to our own opinions, but come on guys, let's try and help each other, not slag each other off. Life is too short.

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Grant is in the form of a 40% tax rebate. That's on cost of materials, and not labour. I don't see the ethical or moral dilemma in accepting such a grant. If it means more people go for renewable energy, isn't that a good thing? You've got to heat your house somehow. So it's not a luxury.
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"Teamed Up

Yes the swimming is mine, but there is a clue in my website www.gites.gb.com

The primary reason I have a pool is for my gite business, which is forms part of my income. and before you ask, no I did not get any grants from Gites de France, it was all my own money. I very rarely get enough time to use my luxury pool!

And this is not some fancy holiday home because I have too much money, (I wish) I actually live here.

Rant over, my point was about government grants being offered as an incentive to people to use environmentally friendly energy, which at the end of the day might help us all.

I use this forum a lot, but personally I do a bit peeved when one asks a simple question and you get derogatory or not very helpful replies. I know we all have a right to our own opinions, but come on guys, let's try and help each other, not slag each other off. Life is too short.

JJ"

Probably a good idea to ignore the postings from various Forum 'gurus' who post lots of replies but very little useful information.

There are grants available (certainly in 47) for geothermal heating - as with anything in France, it is not straightforward - your best approach would be to get a registered installer who can handle all the paperwork for you.

In 47 the grants for this, as with tax relief on woodburning stoves are based upon the fact that you are living here rather than as a 'maison secondaire'. You would seem to qualify for this in your area of France.

Your website looks good - having had two February family holidays in your area over the last couple of years, then your property seems to be far better than those that we were able to find.

Kind regards,

Bob Clarke

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux
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"....Probably a good idea to ignore the postings from various Forum 'gurus' who post lots of replies but very little useful information"

A bit general Bobby Builder wasn't it ?

If you want to go through all the various Guru posts and then give a percentage to us Gurus (who never actually asked for such a gracious title !) what is useful, what is simple chatting and what is "little useful information" fair enough but until then, do please name which Gurus you are proposing as giving very little useful information.

Or is it indeed fair enough to state that builders, such as you, only come on here hoping to get work off the back of it? Or is that generalising too much ? Because although I know other builders (inc. all associated trades) that do offer other help, I cannot remember ever seeing you give general help about everyday living matters of living in France.

There you go, a little bit of generalisation...........................

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[quote]I believe grants are available as the French authorities take an enlightened view of the advantages of renewable energy. However these are only for main residences not maison secondaires.Interesting e...[/quote]

I'm not sure you are right in stating that it is not for second homes. Some french friends enquired on my behalf and told me that it was the building that counted for the grant and not the owner. However, as with many things french, it might differ from department to department! (Mind you, I've still not done it as I still can't afford my bit yet)

 

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The grants for energy efficient heating are organised by  ADEME and their website says

Depuis le 1er janvier 2005, le crédit d'impôt pour les dépenses d'équipement de l'habitation principale est ciblé sur les équipements les plus performants (15 % à 25 %) et soutient fortement (40 %) les chauffe-eau solaires et autres équipements utilisant les énergies renouvelables (solaire, bois, pompes à chaleur). Tout le monde bénéficie du crédit d'impôt, que l'on soit imposable ou non.

So you could get it for your main house , but not any gites.... Though perhaps you could move round like musical chairs every two years.

More details at

http://www.ademe.fr/htdocs/presentation/aidefinanciere/creditimpot_present.htm

There is also a simplified leaflet giving the details

http://www.ademe.fr/htdocs/presentation/aidefinanciere/credit_impot.pdf

It amounts to a refund equivalent to 15 to 40% of the cost of the materials provided they have been professionally installed. There is however no rebate on the  cost of installation.

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My understanding (which may be wrong) is that as others have said the grant is in the form of a tax credit of 40% or materials (I think this is just the “unit” and not “accessory type materials such as cables, etc.). The house needs to be you primary residence and you need to be a French tax payer. The two people proposing systems (woodburner company and the solar/geothermal/aerothermal company both stated must be primary residence – pretty sure I understood that bit correctly though no idea if that’s local or national rule). You pay the full amount to the installer and they then give you a tax credit note which you submit with your tax return for the year. It the tax credit is more than your tax bill I am told you get the refund. I’m currently/soon to go through this with getting a woodburner installed (which apparently also meets the requirements for the 40% tax credit). Thus I do not yet have experience, only what the woodburner company has said (and the ADEME approved person who is quoting for solar water heating and still thinking about geothermal/aerothermal heating.

I guess also relevant is probably if the 5.5% TVA is maintained. Certainly, the company installing my woodburner is also only charging the 5.5% rate as the house and I qualify.

You can find quite a bit more info (together with local contact details) on http://www.ademe.fr/. They have local offices around the place and my local one is very helpful.

Sorry I cannot be more help.

Ian

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[quote]you need to be a French tax payer No you don't actually have to be paying any tax. If you are resident but with no tax liability you will get a refund of the appropriate amount.[/quote]

Sorry, that was what I meant. You need to be completing a French tax return (not subject to you paying them or them paying you). "Tax payer" seems to be the general term for people who are subject to the tax regime of a country.

Ian
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is there some sort of forum in existence where time served french residents with " lots of french friends " can move onto in order just to slag off the english speakers for needing advice on many issues to do with moving to france, there is absolutely no point in some people contributing to this forum ( not you miki, like your posts)

the original post is quite reasonable, it`s to do with grants for creating a cleaner environment, many governments give them, quite common in this day and age, all for the greater good,not about sponging off the state. seems to go straight over the head of certain people, or is that generations, i don`t know but i have a mental picture forming in my head!?

that`s what my french friends tell me anyway!

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And some people could perhaps just google a bit more and learn a bit of french and find out for themselves, which is what us old timers had to do anyway as there was no internet. YIKES how did we manage, well, very well actually.

Your comments are paltry gert.  Help, I don't know of one old timer who hasn't helped out, not one and if you look at the questions that get asked over and over and over and over again  I believe that not only has there been much help but in general people have been very very patient in answering the same things over and over and over and over again, even me.

 

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I know I should not rise to TU's bait, but I feel very strongly about the role of this forum.

Funny how it is only TU that seems to have posted only negative replies on this subject.

Once again TU is missing the point. Surely the main reason for this forum is to get help and advice. Otherwise what purpose and value does it have. Yes, in a perfect world we would all be fluent in French, and we would not need to ask the questions on the forum.

Whilst I do appreciate that some subjects do get discussed again, that is unavoidable. I know one can search, but believe me that does not always deliver.

My wife is fluent in French, but other than getting the sales blurb form the companies trying to sell us the product, I thought it would be useful to get the opinions and thoughts from other forum members who had already done it.

So please can this be the end of the hand bags.

As I have said before, life is too short.

The End.

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I am not baiting but frankly it irritates the life of me the gimme gimme gimme posts on here.  In the real world people struggle in France with all sorts of things and brits with a bob or two or even poor folks coming and asking what they can get simply gets up my nose. My point of view, and that is because I don't see France as some fluffy better life place, I see a country including the warts and listen.

I am fortunate we live well here, however, we don't have money for anything fancy and according to reckoning on another post..... which rather amused me really, we drive two old bangers. And re this subject, we don't have the money to put in this geothermal stuff , 'we' as another poster said, don't actually have the money for the part we would have to cough up..............AND we most certainly do not have the money to put it all up front and wait until August of the following year for our tax break either. And anyone who thinks that poor folks in France can take advantage easily of these things is mistaken. The plumbers won't wait for payment. This really is for the better off in society.

So for me it isn't about the language at all it is about the money c'est tout. The language bit was in reply to gert.

 

AND I am pro ECO things.

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Surely the main reason for this forum is to get help and advice. Otherwise what purpose and value does it have.

This forum is an public forum for people who live in or are interested in France to talk with eachother. No where does it say what the primary purpose of that talk should be. 

Each time someone asks a question - as in this case - they may expect someone to answer, but they may also expect wider discussion, especially in the Post Bag. 

That's what's happened here. 

Post Edited

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It saddens me that a genuine question like the one that started this thread can provoke such hostile replies.

Of course one could search on Google, or acquire a sufficient level of fluency in french, or even try to search for existing information on this forum (on the odd day that the advanced search facility is actually working). But if a forum member chooses to ask a question seeking advice from those with, perhaps, more knowledge of a particular subject, why should they be subjected to a personal attack?

I can't help but wonder, if a question like this was asked in person, within a circle of friends or acquaintances, would some people be quite so quick to answer so negatively, or does the relative annonimity of the forum make some people feel free to speak in a manner that would not be deemed acceptable in "polite society"?

Whilst it is true that many people (of whatever nationality) could not afford the initial outlay, the french government has committed itself to increasing the level of use of renewable energy sources to account for 21% of consumption by 2010.  And so tax breaks are available to those wishing to install geothermal heating.  So what exactly is the problem here?

Of course everyone has an opinion, and wider discussion is to be expected and encouraged, but there does seem to be an element of the old green-eyed monster creeping into play here.

On the whole I find the forum genuinely interesting, informative and sometime even stimulating, but really, come on guys, sometimes you just take my breath away!

 

 

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