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Euphoric France Syndrome


Teamedup
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From here in the UK, the idea of France  appears to me, at least, is now ensconced in the general public moeurs as being better than the UK and moving there must be a good thing. There is the odd dissenter who hates the french and the idea of all things french, but they are rather rare.

I have noticed this during holidays in the past, but as I have been back for quite some time now find that this seems to have become a universal belief that I am surrounded with up here in the NE of England.

The general rule being that one doesn't actually have to know anything about France, the french or living there to have this belief. I find this act of faith remarkable, there again I find all acts of faith remarkable too.Although a holiday or a booze cruise or seeing it on the tv, seems to arm people with a certitude about their knowledge of the place and further confirms the belief.

I am considered as odd now by moving back happily and willingly as I was when we moved to France when no one would have even given a thought to doing it. It was considered an act of folly and madness at the time. Still I have never been one to go with the flow and it is nice to know that we happily moved to France and now 25 years on we are happily moving on again and moving back.

I don't understand the nature of belief patterns. I have no idea as to how this fundamental belief  'France is Better' will help people withstand the test of time in their adopted country. Because I do know that France is just a country and there is good and bad and happy and sad and life goes on much as any where else.

All very interesting and leaving us as being considered highly unusal even amoungst friends, which rather pleases me on some odd level that I can't quite put a finger on.

I reckon that the change in how brits view France must have started during the mad property boom in the late 1980's. It suddenly became 'cheap' and that somehow feels like the key to all this, that word 'cheap'. I reckon all the rest and change in attitude sort of built up on that base that and I mustn't forget the Chunnel, which when being built was being hailed in some quarters as the future of ultra cheap trans manche travel.Not that it ever was but I just think it was another ingrediant in the mix.

I wonder how history will view all this. Will time give some logic to it all. And I wonder how it will all change France too.

Just musing about all this. I can't help it especially when we still get posts from people planning the move and obviously know nowt about the place.

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And I still cannot comprehend that you were sooo unhappy with the Fench Education system but stayed here, If I ever got to the stage where seeds of doubt were planted in my mind then I would be off! You knock France aplenty TU, but it was good enough for you to stay 25 years.

Mrs O

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Sorry but I have never seen TU as a knocker of France. She has

consistently given the way it is for her here and I have to agree with

much if not most of what she posts about the why's and wherefore's here

in France. I and, I know some others on here,  will identify with

a lot of what she has stated, especially about schooling here.

Too many have little or no idea about that facet of their life here, I

can honestly say that I know some parents, that have never been to an

"open evening" nor to a any meeting,  mainly because their Franch

language is simply not up to it and let's be honest here, when the

school has meetings in the gym or dining  hall or wherever and the

place is full of folks, hearing and understanding much of what they are

saying, is one of the hardests parts to deal with. In the early days we

would both be there to ensure that we understood what they were on

about , the first 15 minutes at our kids school meetings were always

full of absolute tripe anyway.

I can only think that people who fear that they may have made mistake

in coming here would feel threatreened by anything untoward she may say

about France. For anyone else they will either recognise what she is

saying or be mystified until with experience, it will finally click.

And if my post also sounds like " knocking" then tant pis, we will

possibly go back to the UK one day but we are just as likely to stay in

France or maybe....but wherever we go and if at all, we won't expect

utopia there either, just another country with all the same

problems....................

I am really looking forward to our trip back to the UK for the

festivities, in no way can France match how the English celebrate Xmas

(all over and done before it even starts here !) so we try to go back every

year. We also like to take short breaks in the UK whenever possible. Now I am in no way

deciding what is the best by doing so, purely having a change of

scenery, a change of culture, visit family and friends, all of which is

something many French themselves absolutely love to do, so I am simply

acting French ain't I !!

As far as many folks coming here on the back of booms in prices,

how many times have I said that ! Cheap housing, cheap wine and fags

have all I reckon, added to the more recent influx of Brits, I am

reading and hearing of more and more, that  had never, if rarely,

visited France before their move.

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It seems for many that they feel ,for whatever reason, that they are being 'pushed' from the UK rather than being 'pulled' to France ( and I was one of them! - but we did make a conscious decision to move to France rather than Spain, Germany or wherever).

 I'm sure that there have been many migrants who have moved to Canada, Australia or New Zealand without necessarily knowling a great deal about the country. But, it is now an easier and cheaper option to move somewhere within the EU. 

 Moving to France in the circs outlined by TU either shows naivety or optimism and I suppose, you can either identify with them or not.

 

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I don't see this "syndrome" myself, perhaps you have to be in the UK,

but I think that people who post here and do not necessarily know alot

about France see it all as part of the adventure.  There are very

few whingers, and I think there are loads more positive stories on this

board and others about how well it can work out.  Look at people

like Lynda and Richard!  I've got to agree with mrs o, if you have

doubts, you leave.

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Isn't the problem that many see France through the rose tinted spectacles they wear on holiday ?

The memory plays tricks and focusses, perhaps, on sitting in the shade on a hot summers day eating a perfect meal.

When I'm working in UK, many have said "it must be fantastic being on holiday all the time".

My response is : No, it is just like living here, but with warmer summers; I still have to paint the window frames, mow the lawn, get the car serviced, go to the supermarket and deal with the taxman.

And that is how I see it. Not better or worse, but slightly different.

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

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I think there is currently a general feeling in the UK that the country has gone to the dogs. This is largely, I suspect, fuelled by Dail Mail readers and those whose sole experiences of life abroad are from the sunlounger of a Spanish beach. Just as people view France through rose tinted spectacles, so too do they look back with fondess to a (non-existent?) utopic time in Britain's history when there were no asylum seekers, no crime and everyone had a dentist. Old fashioned patriotism seems to have been replaced by a strong tendency to complain and to adopt a very "grass is greener" approach to life. Moving abroad, especially to isolated little ex-pat communities, seems to be the trendy solution to a national malaise.

When I broke it to my friends and families that I was off to France for a bit, several expressed the notion that if they spoke French too, they'd be off there with me. "After all", I heard on several occasions, "their health care/education system/way of life is so much better, isn't it?".  When I returned home, they were equally surprised hardly believing I would exchange a life in Paris for one in "crappy old England". I am no stalwart patriot, the UK certainly has its faults but so does France, and Germany, and Italy and any other country you care to mention.

Perhaps the cure to this national malaise, to this erroneous view that everything is pretty merde in the UK is to  move abroad - not to eat fish and chips on the Costa del Sol and bitch about Tony Blair,  but to live the real day to day life as many of this forum do/have done. Perhaps then people would realise that the UK has actually got a lot going for it and is not in a fact an island of iniquity off the coast of some paradise called Europe.

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I agree with everything TU has said. Something perhaps to do with the language barrier? We all read and understand the gloomy news in the UK and perhaps turn a blind eye to doom in France. Perhaps in the UK we've become accustomed to viewing a half empty cup because we understand and acknowledge the problems in the UK, whilst those in France have a half full cup because they don't acknowledge or understand the problems in France.

Whatever the case, from recent experience I have become very disillusioned with all things French and am actively looking for alternative retirement prospects........in the UK!

 

 

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Its very interesting reading this. My wife and two children have lived in france for two and a half years and are wondering whether to return, we love living in france and watching our children grow up here but from a work point of view my life here has changed for the worst. Being a self employed builder and working in an area flooded by british sounds like a dream workwise, but I have never experienced so much back-stabbing in my working life. I seem to be increasingly turning up on jobs and the start of the conversation is always cowboys, now after two months struggling for work and losing out on jobs to fly by night building companys, we are wondering if it is worth the struggle. Having had two very bad experiances with so called building companys here it seems that very few of the companys here want to employ you and the ones that do are cowboys who want to pay very little and dont care what sort of rubbish you knock out.

Thats just our personal reason for considering returning to the u.k

Rant over

steve

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The point missing for TU,s original post is that she was here in france like she says for 25yrs,many times she has posted that she neither felt the need to work or wanted to work in france and many times said she would not work for the crap pay that the frence get,but she was only here because her other half had a "good" job here, disregarding the fact that she thinks the french education is rubbish she remained here,if the french wages are crap and her other half had a good job why could they family TU not move back to the UK where the kids could in TU`s opinion get a better education.By no means am I having a go at her but for us the way our kids are treated here in france beats the UK hands down.Then again we are a poor working class family and did not expect much from  state education and we did not get much.
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Mod hat off

Le Bouffon.

Why you to continue to harp on about Tu's employment status confounds me especially as it seems your wife either doesn't work, or did not for a long time.  I really fail to see what anyones work status has to do with anything.

Frankly your assertion that you are a 'poor working class family' sits ill with some of the other things you have posted in the past. As far as I am concerned being working class and being poor are two entirely different things.

I'm glad your kids are being treated well in France but you do not have to look at this, or any other French forum, for very long to see that this is not always the case!

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Ok if I am willing to accept TU is a prima donna forum wise,she has helped many folk on here,but she has on many occasions critisised the french education and also you will have to agree she posted the fact that she will not work for what the french pay and that she is here bacause her other half as a "good job"even she will admit that they as a family would earn more money in the UK,my point is why she stopped here so long.

     Yeah we are working class and we worked hard,can not remember how many of my kids birthdays I missed while working to pay cash for our houses here in France(I was always told that if I wanted something I have to save up for it),the fact is I knew I would only be for a short while,as for poor well you will never know.My other half worked up untill we came here,some times she earned less than the child minding cost,but still worked .

  Maybe the problem with other kids is that they never lived in the real world,do you really want to go there again?

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And I have explained many times how we ended up staying when we likely should have left as our eldest reached college age. In spite of my being active at school, I never did understand the nature of the beast until it was too late and it is something that I will feel guilt over for the rest of my days. Too late now. I am not crying over spilt milk, but the system is not geared up for your average child to reach their potential and be encouraged, that is not the way of the beast.

And Mrs Opas and Mr Opas Bouffon, so you have both had your say about me. Mr Opas Bouffon, I have no idea as to why you are so annoyed about me not working. Why should I upset a perfectly agreeable family life to go and work and us all end up running around like headless chickens for little financial reward. Strikes me that many a poster has said that they come to France because they want to have a more relaxed life style, whether they do or not in reality I have no idea. I am very keyed up to personal comfort zones. And if I got the education bit wrong, this is one bit I did get very right. Also husband works odd hours and we spend a lot of time together which we most certainly would not if I had worked and I never did like the idea of sharing a bed with a semi stranger.

Your getting annoyed about it only serves to amuse me, so you may as well give up or not, your blood pressure to deal with and not mine.

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1st Quote "Then again we are a poor working class family"

2nd Quote "Yeah we are working class and we worked hard,can not remember how many

of my kids birthdays I missed while working to pay cash for our houses

here in France............."

Now forgive me for being somewhat confused with your posts bouffon

but my thoughts on being poor do not go as far as thinking that by

working  hard to pay cash for French houses and being poor go hand

in hand. I think you like to think you are poor but the truth is, you

have said previously, just how many houses you owned at one time and

then also talk about paying cash for houses in France.

 I think the millions and millions of poor, especially those on

the streets this winter wouldn't mind having a little chat with you

about being poor !

 

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It`s all relative,nobody gave us owt and I have been homeless too but got off my backside etc etc.

 TU,what you do with your time is up to you and I am sure that like anyone else want the best for our kids,but you have said many times what you thought of french education,I do not understand why you did not do something more about it,after all how long were you here 25yrs or there abouts.ps there is not much that raises my blood pressure(apart from Mrs. bouffy).

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Horses for

courses. For us, the move to France

has been the best move that we have ever made. The balance sheet is a

complicated one, and would vary for anyone depending on their own experience, but,

frankly, surrendering 75% of our gross income in exchange for reasserting

control over our lives has been a fine deal from our standpoint.

 Personally,

I think anyone choosing to move solely for what

I would term “negative” reasons (dissatisfaction with the UK

government of

the day, concern  over the state of public services, the

disintigration in standards of public behaviour - percieved or real:

whatever) is probably making a mistake. Anyone moving here in the

belief that it is going to be a 24/7 holiday is also probably making a

mistake.

have no desire to live in the UK again,  and , increasingly,

little desire to even visit. This is not some dogmatic dislike based on

a flawed a  premis that France is "better" in every way (frankly I

am in no position to judge any longer - I now find the money confusing

and don't recognise half the names in the newspapers, so conducting a

reasoned argument could be tricky), just that it is better for me.

Certainly there are elements of UK culture that I cannot abide, but

that is true also of France.
 

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[quote user="Miki"]I am really looking forward to our trip back to the UK for the

festivities, in no way can France match how the English celebrate Xmas

(all over and done before it even starts here !) so we try to go back every

year. We also like to take short breaks in the UK whenever possible. Now I am in no way

deciding what is the best by doing so, purely having a change of

scenery, a change of culture, visit family and friends, all of which is

something many French themselves absolutely love to do, so I am simply

acting French ain't I !!

As far as many folks coming here on the back of booms in prices,

how many times have I said that ! Cheap housing, cheap wine and fags

have all I reckon, added to the more recent influx of Brits, I am

reading and hearing of more and more, that  had never, if rarely,

visited France before their move.

[/quote]

Christmas is one of the reasons I prefer it here in France.  It's

so much less commercialised and you don't have to stuff yourself with

flavourless turkey and its leftovers in company with the same people,

over and over again, for about two weeks.

In general though, I think we like living in France because it's

different and so every day is a bit of an adventure and a

challenge.  For that reason, if it ever gets boring I think we'll

move on somewhere new rather than going back to UK.  I was born

and lived in the NE of England up to the age of 18.  I'm sure it's

very nice and all that, but I've been there and done that. 

Certainly, a lot of Brits buy because houses are

relatively cheap.  This is great if you want to live here but

usually a big disappointment to those who fancy they can make a quick

killing in the french property market.

Patrick

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Russethouse, re your comment that I have not worked for a long time, well if you class 2 years as a long time then so be it, and with good reason, that I was helping to reajust the children here and lo and behold had only mentioned to him indoors that I felt the time was right to start looking for work my self , that same afternoon I got a phonecall to say my mum had died suddenly, so sorry to say that all my get up and go ,went.

I worked constantly from the age of 16, not career jobs, just jobs, making money to do with as I felt fit, and a few years abroad in our early married life told me that England was not the place fo me. I went to work after our children were born , not out of necessity of cash, as Bouffon will have already informed you he earned more in a week than I possibly could in a month, but for the company, being in the home for long periods without adult company can be very lonely.

So as you say what anyones work status is , is their business.

My simple statement to TU, was just that, a simple statement to say that if I felt my children were not getting what I thought was a fair education , then I would be searching for something else,  not giving up and saying it was too little too late.

Mrs o

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So as you say what anyones work status is , is their business (opas)

Is there any chance you could explain this concept to your husband?

My simple statement to TU, was just that, a simple statement to say that if I felt my children were not getting what I thought was a fair education , then I would be searching for something else,  not giving up and saying it was too little too late.

I really think you are putting your own slant on TU's words here.

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

I am considered as odd now by moving back happily and willingly as I was when we moved to France when no one would have even given a thought to doing it. It was considered an act of folly and madness at the time. Still I have never been one to go with the flow and it is nice to know that we happily moved to France and now 25 years on we are happily moving on again and moving back.

I don't understand the nature of belief patterns. I have no idea as to how this fundamental belief  'France is Better' will help people withstand the test of time in their adopted country. Because I do know that France is just a country and there is good and bad and happy and sad and life goes on much as any where else.

All very interesting and leaving us as being considered highly unusal even amoungst friends, which rather pleases me on some odd level that I can't quite put a finger on.

Just musing about all this. I can't help it especially when we still get posts from people planning the move and obviously know nowt about the place.

[/quote]

TU, all this is very "deep", but, as I'm sure you'll be the first to admit, when you moved to France it was in comparative ignorance about what the future would hold, and with a belief that it would be some sort of adventure. In that respect, I can't see how anyone doing the same thing now is really all that different. Similarly, you say that you're perceived as highly unusual among friends for coming back, but if we're to believe all we read and are told, that's not strictly true. Loads of people make the move abroad and return at some future date. In fact, it's simply their reasons for doing so that differ, just like their reasons for moving abroad in the first place can be very different. In your case, the move in both directions was, as you say, made happily, but if you'll forgive me saying so, that doesn't make you in any way unique, even though you imply with just a tiny hint of smugness that it does.

I first lived in France nearly 30 years ago, loved it in spite of its many faults and foibles, and will go back there to live at some time in the near future, confident that whatever information I've amassed in the time already spent there, it will never be enough. I don't have rose-tinted glasses, and I have no idea whether I'll move there for good or for a few years. What I do know is that my decision isn't based on any sort of knee-jerk reaction, nor a belief that France is cheaper, better or more attractive than any other country in the world. How do you or I or anyone else, for that matter, make objective judgments about how much it's necessary to know about a country before moving there first? I once worked for a huge multinational company who recruited young grads to go and work in Africa.I don't mean the sexy, civilised bits, I mean the real Africa. How did they  and the company find out if they would cut it there, or enjoy the life? By sending them there after only a couple of weeks' induction in the UK. Some sank, some swam, some loved it and some not, but for the company it was a cheaper way to find out than training someone for a couple of years in the UK, with all the investment in that person, then sending them out to Africa only to see them return within a few weeks. Sometimes, the only way to find out is to give it a go.

The members of this forum have only one real thing in common, apart from an interest in France, and that is that is spite of the occasional outbreak of evidence to the contrary[;)] we're all adults and have reached a stage in life where we're allowed (if not always fully capable of doing so) to make our own decisions about our lives, including how and where we live them. What we see here on the forum are people at every stage of the process, and the very fact that people bother to come on here and look (or ask) for information suggests at least some degree of forethought and preparation, no matter how dumb the questions may seem to others. Not all of us will make the move, ever. Some will, and will move back having decided it's not for them. Some will move back just as happily as they left, just like you're doing. You've said before on here that you went to France long before the internet, and had to find things out for yourself as you went along. Funnily enough, there are people who are still doing that. What is it that makes them crazy and you adventurous?

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[quote user="Tresco"]

 

I really think you are putting your own slant on TU's words here.

[/quote]

well of course I am!  whenever anyone writes anything on this or any other forum , for that matter, unless the writer goes into war and peace depths(and even then the point can be missed) then some will always have a different perspective.

As for explaining things to my husband, well I`ll leave that to you. We are married, not joined at the hip.

Mrs O

 

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 Tresco wrote:

 

I really think you are putting your own slant on TU's words here.

well of course I am!  whenever anyone writes anything on this or any other forum , for that matter, unless the writer goes into war and peace depths(and even then the point can be missed) then some will always have a different perspective. (mrs opas)

Fair enough, in so far as it goes, but in my opinion both you, and mr o/outcast/le bouffon are over interpreting TU's words. I thought she did a pretty good job of explaining herself in the first place

As for explaining things to my husband, well I`ll leave that to you. We are married, not joined at the hip.

Frankly, there are better ways for me to spend my time, but this is not the first time Mr O has had a pop at TU about whether or not she works. He had a pretty surreal 'out of the blue' pop at me recently, (have I worked here, and do I pay taxes???????) in a topic wholly unrelated to those matters, and of course none of his business.

Still, at least within a few months of outcast (Mr OPAS le Bouffon and all the rest of the user names he has used) being banned from this forum, he (you both) has/have tacitly admitted who he his. You may not be joined at the hip, but you are very much a team - let's have it out in the open.

 

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ooops, the post that was here has been edited by the Real Opas, who was innocently watching Top Gear when the other person who posts on here(le bouffon) had not realised I had been posting on LF earlier an I forgot to log off. Simple mistake.

As to why we have two poster names /one computer, that is simple also, If him indoors had been banned under User name OPAS, then I would have been too!  We share a hot waterbottle but not our thought process......and now I shall sign off and let the other half explain his comments.

Mrs O

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