Jump to content

Scam involving British claiming benefits?


Recommended Posts

My point is simply that if an EU citizen moves to live in another EU State they are entitled to do so and receive the same benefits as an indigenous person in that Country as long as they fulfil the criteria, these are the agreements that have been entered into. The alternative is that only the rich can move within the EU, now that would be interesting, wouldn't it? 

Cheating the system is another matter!  Yes, I know of Brits that gave cheated the system, two younger families with children that I know of worked on the black and claimed child benefit - that is illegal and I personally find it unacceptable but it is not the same as someone who comes to live here and finds themselves on low income.  Not everybody who comes from the UK (or elsewhere) had a "nice bit of property" to sell or a good pension provision.

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 97
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

[quote

user="chris pp"]

My point is simply that if an EU citizen moves to live in another EU State

they are entitled to do so and receive the same benefits as an indigenous

person in that Country as long as they fulfil the criteria, these are the

agreements that have been entered into. The alternative is that only the rich

can move within the EU, now that would be interesting, wouldn't it? 

[/quote]

 

I agree.  I tend to

regard France as another area of the EU, UK being another, etc.  when I moved here I simply moved to a

different area of Europe.  Even within the

UK there are different rules and regulations in different counties, different NHS

“whatever they are these days”, etc.  So

France has slightly different rules to UK (as Bristol has some different rules,

etc. to e.g. Glasgow).

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is going in the way of the Poor Law ie the deserving poor and the un-deserving poor,if the law of the land(france)says that people are entitled to what ever that is the case,nobody is saying that working on the black is right and like most I think that they should be reported when ever people come across them,it`s the same with car tax.How many second home owners pay cash in hand for change overs or declare the rent paid to them by "friends"who you thier house,s and think that is right?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a quick read of an article in today's Dépêche du Midi along the same lines of perceived CMU abuse run by the same paper last year (see the thread I about "CMU scoungers"). Today's article is not online, so I cannot put a link to it...

It relates to an RMI fiddle/scam run by European in the Dordogne: 7000 claimants were examined and 150 were found to be breaking the law in their RMI claim.

(someone please calculate the % as I am hopeless at it!)

The article states RMI is claimed by European nationals but specifically points to Brits who have reclaimed the Dordogne (it says some villages are now entirely British and there are even 4 cricket clubs in that department!). It also mentions that (to support their indication of the "invasion" (my word), the English language newspaper "French News" sells some 12000 copies in the area.

Some official (maire?) is quoted as saying the claimants sometimes live in well-appointed houses ("maisons cossues") owned by their parents and claim RMI because they have no income.

The article also relates a European law (?) which apparently states that European nationals wanting to settle in another European state should be of independant means, a law which, it says, is conveniently ignored by most European RMI claimants.

Another part of the article relates to a "French News" journalist wanting to interview some of the 150 people found to be breaking the law in their RMI claim, and explaining that some European nationals who move have independant means at first, but might find their business venture fails after a few years and would then have to rely on the same system which benefits French nationals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tourangelle

Firstly, I am sorry that you hope I'm not "coming to live here"  -  I will try to avoid meeting up with you if it helps.

Secondly -  you say " it is not how it works here, and wishful thinking is not going to change that" - well surely it IS how it works and that is the point of this string - and to call it a "Scam" when it is simply not a scam but is an example of how the system works is using emotive words and strikes me as rather inflamatory.

As I said, we are all part of the EU - if the system you are complaining of annoys you, then I am sorry, but in my view it appears to be small minded - I repeat - I am very happy for any of my fellow europeans to have any social benefits that (legally) they are entitled to in whatever State of the EU they find themselves in - that is what membership of the Union gives us - Regulation 1408/71 guarantees to EU nationals the social security benefits of the host nation and takes into accouint the contributions made in his/her home state or other members States.

I cetaily do not suggest in my post that healthcare should be the same in France as in the UK, - quite frankly the needs within one State are not likely to be mirrored in another State so harmonisation of benefts is not on the cards (or even a good idea at the moment) but I do say that the rules of each State apply equally to any citizen of the EU within that State - and to say otherwise is wrong.

We are part of the EU - lets accept that and revel in its benefits AND in our differences..

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm shocked by the apparently niggardly attitudes expressed on this thread, some from people whom I've come to respect, having ready their reasoned points elsewhere.

First of all, are you tilting at windmills? Is this invasion of brit scroungers real or are you simply responding to vague, ill-defined and poorly researched reports in the French press. Lets have some hard facts. What are the percentages? I suspect that this is a minority interest (scandalous nevertheless) that has been hyped up.

France is a wonderful country with a proud history but its never been known for giving anything away to its EU neighbours. It is certainly in France's interest to encourage and benefit from the free movement of labour between EU member states which this section of the convention was designed to facilitate. It is difficult enough starting a new business here; any LIMITED support that the state can offer is very welcome. It is important, in supporting the European model of co-operation and integration, that we keep and eye on the larger picture rather than choosing to focus on trivia to the exclusion of all else.

Bear in mind that your fellow EU citizens from the UK are only entitled to E106 cover because they are workers and have paid regular NI contributions up until their relocation in France.

My partner and I came here to work because we are workers. We have always be fortunate enough to work and have never claimed a benefit in any state. We did our homework and  planned ahead before we left London. We're not rich (though richer than some of our neighbours) and cannot afford not to work. We're trying very hard under challenging circumstances to make our lives here financially viable. We're grateful for the small respite that the French state allows us by not having to worry about healthcare among the myriad of other concerns involved in making a living for ourselves. In turn, when we are earning a taxed income, we expect to be putting a lot back into the French economy and society. We, as I would hope most non-French Europeans living in this country, are committed to France and the life of its people.

Until recently I worked and taught in two high profile teaching hospitals and know how freely accessible NHS services are to non-UK nationals through either emergency admissions or via NHS Walk-in Centres. In my considerable experience, rarely, very rarely, did I come across cases of  "health-care tourism". Nothing I saw even began to approach the abuses portrayed by the Red Tops (tabloids). People who accessed services needed medical attention and in my book anyone who needs a doctor should be allowed to see one in a country with plenty of doctors.

I can't imagine there are many Brits here simply to have their teeth fixed. I would like to credit most of my compatriots with a little more integrity than is deemed appropriate by the French popular press. Nobody here or anywhere else should be judged solely according the to standards of The Third Estate. I don't like scroungers either but then few of us are.

Best wishes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am heartened and grateful for Polycarpe's reasoned and rational response to some of the earlier comments in this thread. Having read some of the comments from earlier posters, I am seriously wondering if I actually want any longer to relocate to France, as I would hate to imagine that my daily life/perceived level of income would be subjected to the scrutiny of so many "holier than thou" expats looking for a reason to assume that I was milking the system, or getting something that they, with the benefit of whatever wisdom, believed I wasn't entitled to.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am the person who started this thread and am therefore guilty of using the word 'scam'.   If you read back to the beginning you will see that I caught the end of a news item and wasn't fully informed..   Knowing more about it now - there was an item on TF1 news tonight - I accept that it probably isn't a scam.   But I do think that it doesn't make for good relations when people (whatever their nationality), some of whom are clearly well off at least in terms of property, claim benefits which are intended for the poor - the vast majority of whom cannot afford to buy and are having to find money for rent. There's always the posibility of borrowing against a house, or even selling it and buying something cheaper, hard though that decision may be.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With regard to the EU, there are bound to be inequities when trying to to marry complex systems each of which was designed to stand independently. Maybe this is one. The terms 'scam' or 'scrounger' are rather loaded and so inapplicable to the majority of well-meaning and law-abiding people neither do they encourage free and honest debate. Its a good discussion to have, if a bit prickly, and I for one am glad Opalienne began the thread.

I agree that a welfare state works best when it irons out inequality and offers most support to those in greatest need.  Hence the need for greater sensitivity to be shown in the cause of good neighbourly relations. Its human nature to look over the fence and think the grass is greener whether one knows the whole story or not; perceptions are impressions and often have little relation to material truth. If I admit that there are bound to be a few acting fraudulently then I'd also ask you to consider that a good deal of discontent may be based on faulty perception. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What

is there to be shocked at ? that there are fiddlers in the world and

they come from Britain...well shock horror. I don't think so, it is in

no way unknown for Brits back in the UK to be scroungers or fiddlers or

whatever they are called at the moment and they have now decided for

one reason or another, that they would like to be in France. They know

perhaps, by way forums and friends that there is a way to get free

health cover, or indeed find out when they arrive but to think there

is no such thing or a very small percentage, is to my mind, way off

target. If anyone believes that owning a big house and a big car and

have stacks in the bank is what the CMU was intended for, then it

sickens me as to the greed that people can have in trying to justify

that they are fully entitled to work au noir and get health cover as

well......

First of all, are you tilting at windmills? Is this invasion

of brit scroungers real or are you simply responding to vague, ill-defined

and poorly researched reports in the French press. Lets have some hard facts.

What are the percentages? I suspect that this is a minority interest (scandalous

nevertheless) that has been hyped up
.

Or of course, you could take the

words of some of us who know that this goes on, just as the Dordogne

authorities found out that some were getting money under false pretences. A

minority, well yes I guess it would be so, but the percentage, still don’t know

but for sure, many of us (especially the Artisans, who for sure are told and

know of quite a few I imagine ?) will all know of cases or  have a very good reason to suspect some Brits

are getting their CMU and working in a trade without paying their dues

correctly. Not sure where you have you move most days but from where I stand,

it is getting more and more obvious, through talking with the French and

hearing from friends, both British and French about just how many people we all

know who are not claiming RMI or CMU (or both of course) in the correct and honest

manner but are milking the system and working at the same time. Let’s hope more

and more get caught and then, it will put many off following suit and perhaps

the doubters will have to put their hands up and say the usual, “well I had no

idea it was so rife”

Bear in mind that your fellow EU citizens from the UK are only entitled to E106 cover because they

are workers and have paid regular NI contributions up until their relocation in

France.

What does that actually mean ? So

we bear it in mind against what exactly ?

The E106 is not meant for folks

to come over and actually work in a self employed manner nor if one is to work

for a company here)

My partner and I came here to work because we are workers. We have

always be fortunate enough to work and have never claimed a benefit in any

state. We did our homework and ………… 

 So how do you get CMU and still work ? What is

your line of work that lets you claim CMU ? I know one can claim a top up (complementaire)

if ones income is below a set level but surely not the obligatory ? Are you

running a gite complex or B&B perhaps ?

 In turn, when we are earning

a taxed income, we expect to be putting a lot back into the French economy

and society. We, as I would hope most non-French Europeans living in this

country, are committed to France

and the life of its people.

From that paragraph, then it is No,

paying tax is pretty rare when the abattement is taken in to account !

Some people are making the

ridiculous error of thinking that because Britain has a free at point of entry

hospital  system, then so should France,

well they don’t have one and it is pretty common knowledge that Britain is, I

believe, alone in that, so why come here and then argue “well Britain is free

and we paid there, so we should have it free here” unless one has an E form of

one kind or another that is not going to happen. Well unless you do have the E form, it ain’t so and that

is the end of the story, or as they say, like it or lump it.

Croixblanches

I am heartened and grateful for

Polycarpe's reasoned and rational response to some of the earlier comments in

this thread.

What is your problem? You think that the rest of us that pay out so much

money to be in the system should feel at home with the ones coming over  (or indeed already here) and claiming CMU as

if it is a right and then do some work au noir.

I see people shouting indignantly “NOT ME I am as straight as an arrow”,

then do please believe those of us that know about these things, if you don’t

believe it, well jolly good for you but don’t call us “holier than thou” look

inwardly and say that about yourselves. You shout "we wouldn’t do it" and life

has told me that all too often, those that shout the most have the most to

hide, like it or not, that is my take on it all.

Don’t relocate, to France

if you feel the Brits would assume you were milking the system or you could of course

come over and pay your dues honestly, then no one could say anything  could they ?

The bottom line is quite simply that

folks come here and have taken the proverbials, not those that need

cover and genuinely have no alternative but to claim CMU to give them

health cover but imagine then, a French near neighbour on the same

system with a little run down place and a Brit living on the hill and

has 4 bedrooms a couple of bathrooms, the nearly new 4X4 and all the

rest of the British needs, claiming the same CMU and getting even

more cause he has NO income but all the trappings of a rich Parisien and

some of you  think the French will just keep welcoming the Brits

with open arms.........................there will come a time if this

loophole is not closed when it will affect, in a very bad way, the way

some French view us.......don't believe it ?

Well take a look back at the UK and view

how many Brits see the influx of immigrants, sure some do welcome them

but an awful lot of people have been getting pretty hot under the

collar in the way they see  (or believe they see) the influx

affecting their supposed way of life and are taking all the money from

the coffers whilst they work hard to get what they have.

Rightly or wrongly and you need have no

doubt, that it is how we will ALL be viewed by those that don't know

one personally......maybe not this week, nor this month or year but at

the rate things are growing, certainly, not in the far too distant

future................

There you go, pick the bones out of that but I can tell you, if you think I am making it up, rest assured, I am not !

Any repeats in this post , well

apologies but annoyance that people think that very few are at

it,  is the right word to explain I guess !

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any suggestion that I might be breaking the law seems a tad harsh. I am witholding nothing owed nor claiming anything other than theoretical health cover (haven't been to a surgery in years, thankfully).

A very lengthy email which demonstrated some strongly held beliefs but didn't offer much in the way of solid info. I don't discount anecdotal evidence from someone here much longer than me but I was looking for more objective stuff too.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suggested nothing and in return, did not get told how you were

receiving CMU, perhaps you might now do so ? I see you do gardiennage

and the normal add ons as well as counselling, well I am not sure which

chambre or whatever those pretty much opposites comes under but

I didn't know the CMU gave obligatory cover with any of those,

certainly a chance of complementaire but....................

What do you want in the way of solid info ? Do you need proof or would

you simply prefer to call any of us, that  say CMU fiddling is

certainly going on, scaremongers or just plain liars ? Why do you think

we say it ? for fun ? we have no red tops here to spur us on, we get

our info from people we trust, and from our own knowledge of these

things. People can have loose tongues. I have told you, that friends,

both French and British, know it is going on, if you are not privy to

that, does it therefore mean it cannot happen then ? Do the only things

that can be true, have to hit you fully in the face ? Can you not

believe those of us who know  it is happening, who iknew it would

happen and know now it will canker until the loophole gets fixed.

The French did not foresee this but many of us did. You didn't, well

fair enough, perhaps your forte is elsewhere and perhaps you can't see

that Brits can and do cheat he system, here and back in the UK.

Pull your head out of the sand and stop taking the line that it simply

cannot be, unless you are taken in front of  3 judge and all three

tell you it is so !

Finally how do you prove it is happening, well, one simply knows

without a shadow of doubt and if any doubting Thomas takes the stubborn

way of disbelieving, then so be it,  let's see shall we !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hear what you're saying and do accept, as I said before, that you're experience is considerably greater than mine. Such experience shouldn't be dismissed out of hand and neither do I do so. However, I'll reserve judgement on the issue for the time being.  Its been very interesting. Thank you.

As for my personal circumstances, you seem to have some difficulty accepting what I've stated i.e. that all is above board. That's disappointing. I don't feel the need to justify myself so I've nothing more to say.

I'll look forward to the input of other contributors on the original issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for my personal circumstances,

you seem to have some difficulty accepting what I've stated i.e. that

all is above board. That's disappointing. I don't feel the need to

justify myself so I've nothing more to say

Yes I do have some

difficulty in understanding how anyone with two different sets of work

can get CMU, I admit that but surely an explanation would be in order,

so that others doing gardiennage or/and counselling will know how they

can get the same form of health cover. So what is wrong with giving

that information out ? What must be disappointing,  is that others must now be dying to know how they can get CMU whilst having a foot in two very different trades!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Miki"]

I see people shouting indignantly “NOT ME I am as straight as an arrow”, then do please believe those of us that know about these things, if you don’t believe it, well jolly good for you but don’t call us “holier than thou” look inwardly and say that about yourselves. You shout "we wouldn’t do it" and life has told me that all too often, those that shout the most have the most to hide, like it or not, that is my take on it all.

[/quote]

So it's "do as I say, not as I do", then, is it?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What many fail to notice is that people living here on their savings - and they have every right to do that if they have worked hard in the past - do not have a choice.  It is a legal requirement to be in the health system and unless you have sufficient 'earnings' - not savings - you have to have CMU.  Your would need a huge amount of savings to have sufficient income from interest alone.   I am not saying this is right but would imagine that quite a few of the so-called scammers fall in to this category.  Even people supplementing their savings by working a few hours - again perfecly legally - on cheque emploi service would probably still qualify.  There is no way that anyone - however honest - can make voluntary contributions.

Like most people I have come across other Brits working on the black - but for the most part they are not claiming benefit, in fact they do not seem to exist legally at all, and use E111 for health care or return to UK.  Equally dishonest but not the same thing.  Occasionally I too have a rant about this - usually when we have received another bill or some administrative office has managed to mislay another bit of paperwork.

We work and pay into the system here.  The system is bizarre and we just have to accept that as we have decided to live here.  My husband's work contract specifically forbids him to work 'legally' elsewhere, but rest assured that his French friends have pointed out plenty of opportunities for him to do extra work on the black (he doesn't and they think that is strange).  When I wonder aloud if it wouldn't be a better idea for people to be encouraged to have any secondary employment in a legal fashion they all regard me as if I am mad.

The piece in the Depeche reminded me very much of the tabloid reaction to immigrants in UK - I hardly think the number of copies of the News sold has any bearing on the number of people fiddling the system!   Of course it is irritating that some people don't pay their dues, but I don't think the situation is worse in France.  Interestingly, in England I seem to remember that most people seemed to think it was OK to pay cash for building jobs and I don't recall their neighbours getting worked up about it.  There will always be abuses of any system and I don't think that the nationality of the person abusing makes it any more or less right. 

Maggi

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't agree more with Miki.  Those of us who lived in France

before CMU started, and it has not been around that long, will remember

it was touted as being the solution for those who had really very low

income to have access to the health care system, and as such, a very

good thing.  It is a pity it seems to have been hijacked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally know of two people who claim this and as of yesterday, over a few beers after the rugby (Quillan beat Limoux 30 -7 for anyone interested) another one.

All these people are drawing pensions either private or civil service. They mainly claim that they do not declare their income in France because they have been ‘advised’ not to do so by accountants (I would love to know who these 'accountants' are) and fellow Brits because they will have to pay tax and social charges (I shall call the latter NI for simplicity). They feel that because they have worked to get their pensions they don’t feel it right to then have to pay tax and NI to the French government because they have never worked here and they were told they would pay a lot more, especially in NI contributions.

Now to be honest I declare all my income in France and have moved all my savings here and am currently in the process of closing my UK bank account and destroying my UK credit cards. The reason for this is because after listening to utter rubbish spoken by fellow Brits thinking they know best I am actually better off here in France than in the UK.

I personally came to France to change my life style and for better health care as I have a long term illness. Morally I can’t take out if I put nothing in so I pay and don’t mind paying. My combination of tax and NI, as I said, is less than what I pay in the UK although I don’t get such big interest on my saving. So all in all I think I am financially in the same position, taking all three in to account, than I was in the UK.

I, like many others in the UK, was getting a bit fed up with people coming to ‘my country’ allegedly getting free accommodation and bundles of money from the state not to mention free health care. I, like many others in my old area wondered how they got away with this when they drove around in brand new 7 series BMW cars on foreign plates.

Now I, like possibly the French and their current attitude to the English, tended to think that all these immigrants were the same, lazy and scammers of the UK system to which, believe me, I have paid a fortune, probably more than most (but not as much as some), and they were taking what I saw as my money. When you read more about these UK immigrants you find that, for example, some are doctors and surgeons and they came to the UK as ‘work’ immigrants thinking that they would get a job in the NHS. Unfortunately it turns out that many of their qualifications are not valid yet determined to work they end up with jobs like porters in hospitals.

So who’s fault is this, the UK government for not making information on qualifications and their worth in the UK more available in the countries from which these people come, or is it the people themselves who are just not doing their homework? Could not this be, in some cases, the same in France with respect to people emigrating here from the UK and other EU countries?

Of course there are cheats and scammers and some will be English, it’s a fact of life. Some English still have their head in the sand attitude of ‘no a Brit would not dream of doing such a thing’ well dream on they do and some are here. I tend to think of these Brits in the same way as I did the immigrants in the UK. Why should I work hard and pay my tax’s and NI when these people ( who in some cases are openly boasting about what they are doing to other Brits almost calling us that do pay stupid) pay for these people who are clearly cheating the French system. What is even worse in my mind is that France has a high level of unemployment compared to the UK and there are far more French in dire straights than ever before who could do with more money.

Yes we are European and members of the EU and there are EU laws that say we have the right to move and live in any country within the EU that we like but surely it’s also a moral issue of knowing what is really right and what it really wrong and for me it’s wrong and something I would not dream of doing. To me people who use the EU law as an excuse are in my mind devoid of any morality with respect to this matter.

La Bouffon’s point was interesting although in my personal and limited experience of French people in the UK indicates that they go there to work as there is little prospect of them working and earning good money in France although by the law of averages some must be claiming off the UK state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="le bouffon"]One of the things missing here is what do the french claim in the UK?there seem to be quite of  them in the UK,although I doubt that the french media will mention that.[/quote]

I'm told that there are about 120,000 French nationals living in London. They and the Spanish, Portuguese, Germans, Poles, Rumanians and other EU nationals and all those others who have right of abode in an EU country because of Europe's colonial past have been supported by UK tax and national insurance payers for years. They have had the right to access medical services for as long as they have been EU members under reciprocal arrangement agreements. Quid pro quo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cerise said "What many fail to notice is that people living here on their savings - and they have every right to do that if they have worked hard in the past - do not have a choice.  It is a legal requirement to be in the health system and unless you have sufficient 'earnings' - not savings - you have to have CMU." 

Thank you Cerise, this is the point  that Miki and others appear to be missing, you do not claim CMU.  You pay what you are told to pay.  If your financial situation, honestly declared to the French authorities is such that it is does not reach the pay threshold for CMU you do not have to pay anything, it is not a scam, it is not dishonest or immoral,  it is simply complying with the law of the land that we live in.  Claiming RMI is a completely different matter as it is a deliberate act to claim it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might not be dishonest but it is immoral because it wasn't set up to help wealthy expats and if you can live off savings you sound pretty wealthy to me!

I wonder if this had not been readily available to those ex pats who have taken advantage of it, and if you had been required to pay for and take out your own full medical cover, how many would have found the cost too prohibitive to make the move to France? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As posted on Yahoo France:

Dordogne: environ 150 ressortissants européens bénéficiaient frauduleusement du RMI

PERIGUEUX (AP) -

Environ 150 ressortissants européens bénéficiaient frauduleusement du

revenu minimum d'insertion (RMI) en Dordogne, a-t-on appris samedi

auprès du Conseil général. Le préjudice atteindrait les 660.000 euros.

Les

fraudeurs présumés, dont 40% de Britanniques, ont été identifiés à

l'issue de contrôles après le transfert de la gestion du RMI aux

départements l'an dernier, a expliqué à l'Associated Press Arnaud

Sorge, directeur de cabinet du président du Conseil général de la

Dordogne.

Cent-cinquante

bénéficiaires européens ont donc été radiés et "il est possible qu'il y

ait une ou deux poursuites dans des cas vraiment exagérés", a-t-il

ajouté.

Arnaud

Sorge a rappelé que les ressortissants européens n'ayant "pas les

moyens de subsister et d'avoir une assurance-maladie en France"

n'avaient "pas à venir et à bénéficier des prestations sociales". En

revanche, en cas de perte d'emploi ou de divorce, par exemple, sur le territoire français, ils ont les "mêmes droits que les résidants français", a-t-il souligné.

"Il

peut y avoir des gens qui l'ont reçu de manière justifiée pendant un

temps et dont la situation s'est modifiée". Dans les cas où les

bénéficiaires ont peu de moyens, le département n'engagera pas de

poursuites, a-t-il affirmé.

Le

directeur de cabinet du président du Conseil général a toutefois

précisé que cette situation n'était "pas quelque chose d'exceptionnel".

"Ça existe dans tous les départements". AP

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Translation:

The Dordogne:  approximately 150 European nationals profited fraudulently from RMI

PERIGUEUX (AP) - Approximately 150 European nationals profited fraudulently from the minimum income of insertion (RMI) in the Dordogne, one learned Saturday near the general Council.  The damage would reach the 660.000 euros. 

The supposed defrauders, including 40% of British, were identified at the end of controls after the transfer of the management of the RMI to the departments last year, explained to Associated Press Arnaud Sorge, principal private secretary of the president of the Conseil  Général de la Dordogne.  150 European recipients were thus erased and "it is possible that there are one or two continuations in really exaggerated cases", it added.

Arnaud Sorge pointed out that the European nationals "not having the means of remaining and to have a health insurance in France" did not have "to come and benefit from the social security benefits".  On the other hand, in the event of divorce or job loss, for example, on the French territory, they have the "same rights as the French residents", it underlined.

"There can be people who received it in a way justified during a time and whose situation changed".  He confirmed that whenever the recipients have few means, the department will not start proceedings, 

The principal private secretary of the president of the general Council however specified that this situation was not "not something exceptional".  "That situation exists in all the departments".  AP

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to yesterday's Dépêche, 7000 claimants were investigated, 212 were found to claim fraudulently and 150 of these are European nationals (other than French) and the majority of these are British.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And sometimes some things just do not feel right.

Let me tell you all something when I first heard that an E106 could be used by people  just moving  here and would be treat like french residents who were employed I was absolutely amazed and didn't think that it could be true. I even looked it up.

If the system in France had never looked after its own poor in a fashion that I found humain and acceptable then how could foreigners just come in and be covered just like that. Especially as the french were only just getting around to some sort of aid for some disadvantaged french people.

I did find out that this E cover was being billed to the UK and then it seemed OK. And it sounded fine to me that people were being charged after their E cover had run out. It never occurred to me that anyone would be here with so little income that they would not be eligible to pay towards their health care. Or that the improvements to french health care cover for french people in dire straights would suddenly 'catch' these brits with insufficient income, even though they had funds. And if they hadn't the funds why were they here anyway.

I sit in front of this screen and  I see what is written about 'europe' as this cosy, everything the same, all treat the same little village and I wonder very naievely as to how anyone could think that.  After all I have heard all the speeches by french politicians saying that they are good europeans.........whereas they say or imply that the UK is not. And I do know that what ever these politicians say, first and uppermost in their plans and their minds is, La France d'abord.

I have had 25 years of listening to things about peoples fears of immigration and the system being used. And most of those years prior to the CMU and RMI. All those years of hearing the french point of view about how the world is perceived and how things are done. And some of these things have revolted me as they seemed cruel and injust, hence as I have said in the past, I rejoiced when the RMI came in and was absolutely delighted when the CMU came in. And I realised that the health system was in a financial mess, but still, health treatment for all just seems fundamentally right to me and I was still happy with the new system.

 

Maybe I have been in France too long. Like every last french person I know, I don't like people coming in and not paying their way. And if the CMU was not done properly so that people don't have to pay their way, then it should be amended. So I will kick up when I see that people haven't got to pay their way, banging on about it, like I used to bang onto french friends about there not being a safety net in France, because that is what I do when things in this world do not seem right.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...