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Just a general rant :-p


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[quote user="Iceni"] If a buyer pulls out on completion date the seller has the 10% deposit to fall back on plus other legal remedies to enforce the sale (IIRC specific performance). John[/quote]

But that's the point, isn't it, that in the UK deposits are not non-returnable?

Wouldn't have minded one bit if I could have had a 10% deposit and kept it!

As that happened four times in total before the fifth and genuine buyer came along, just work out for yourself that I could have had 40% of the value of the house and still have been the owner! 

Indeed, I wouldn't have needed to sell at all:  just retire to France on the proceeds!

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[quote user="Swissie"]Quillan- could you explain how paying half in a brown envelope can be legal and above board, please? thanks.
[/quote]

I guess, Swiss, that it's always been one law for the nobs and another for the plebs.

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[quote user="Simon"]

[quote user="Iceni"]Simon When one has access to snippets from The Sun and Daily Mail one does not need to meet each and every one to form an unreasonable opinion. Stereotypes rule. John[/quote]

Just getting back up off the floor laughing.  Someone who form their opinions based on what they read in the Sun and Daily Mail, really says more about them!

[/quote] Probably does, simon. Luckily yours is not one of the 2 opinions that matter to me. John
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Don't forget, however, that the best threads are hijacked ones because it gets people interested and posting and, you never know, you often learn all sorts of things that you might not have otherwise![:D]

May I join Swissie in wishing you Bonne Chance though it sounds to me as though you are one hell of a lucky person!

Why do I say that?  Well, because with looking at just the one house you have struck the jackpot!  Me, I have been looking for months and visited dozens, made offers on a few and still no result....

So, Well Done, You!

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PROPERTY TAX EVASION.

 

In this completely hypothetical scenario,  [;-)]

 

The seller advertises his property for say 100,000 Euros.

The buyer offers less and a discount from the asking price of 23% is agreed.

Half of the actual price is declared to the Notaire, in this case 38500 Euros.

The rest is paid to the vendor in a brown paper envelope for "furniture".

The Notarie fees are based on this figure of 38500 Euros.

This happens with two more  property sales.

I think even the most laid back notaire will spot a pattern emerging here. ( a house which had an asking price of 100,000 Euros sold for 38500)

He ( the notarie) has lost money in his fees and the tax man has lost revenue.

It is the notaires duty to report this if he has suspicions of wrong doing, as failure to do so could implicate him also in this fraud, from which he has not benefited, but has lost financially.

Fraud on ones own is one thing, to conspire with another is far more serious, and so if found out, are the penalties.

 

Who also has lost out, well the agents who had spent time listing these properties, to see them sold for a fraction of their true value may be unhappy.

The vendor who, desperate to sell, had no choice but to go along with a deal which was fully in the financial interest of the buyer, may not be too happy when they think about it. ( sold their main asset at a knock down price to a speculator, with cash who was trying to make even more by making them participate in their plan to defraud , or they would not buy)

I could go on, but you get the picture. [:-))]

 
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Mr Quillan, Why you seem to think that you have to justify your private dealings to me is beyond my comprehension, so good luck to you and yours in all your financial practises and chicanery. I just find it a little strange that you would want to reveal your private life so readily on a public forum in a way that is open to being misconstrued. [:D]
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[quote user="ebaynut"]
PROPERTY TAX EVASION.

 

In this completely hypothetical scenario,  [;-)]

 

The seller advertises his property for say 100,000 Euros.

The buyer offers less and a discount from the asking price of 23% is agreed.

Half of the actual price is declared to the Notaire, in this case 38500 Euros.

The rest is paid to the vendor in a brown paper envelope for "furniture".

The Notarie fees are based on this figure of 38500 Euros.

This happens with two more  property sales.

I think even the most laid back notaire will spot a pattern emerging here. ( a house which had an asking price of 100,000 Euros sold for 38500)

He ( the notarie) has lost money in his fees and the tax man has lost revenue.

It is the notaires duty to report this if he has suspicions of wrong doing, as failure to do so could implicate him also in this fraud, from which he has not benefited, but has lost financially.

Fraud on ones own is one thing, to conspire with another is far more serious, and so if found out, are the penalties.

 

Who also has lost out, well the agents who had spent time listing these properties, to see them sold for a fraction of their true value may be unhappy.

The vendor who, desperate to sell, had no choice but to go along with a deal which was fully in the financial interest of the buyer, may not be too happy when they think about it. ( sold their main asset at a knock down price to a speculator, with cash who was trying to make even more by making them participate in their plan to defraud , or they would not buy)

I could go on, but you get the picture. [:-))]

 
[/quote]

No, never EbayNut - nobody could ever be THAT dishonest, surely!

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[quote user="Mattyj198"]Can I say "hijacked post?"     :-p
[/quote]

Yes. Unfortunatelñy many posts on here end up being reduced to a driveling interchange of private jokes between a handful of regular suscribers who feel they own the forum and seem to have nothing better to do.

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What, raining in the Jura?  Surely not!!!

A bit of drivelling interchange perhaps but raining?

Edit:  if the title of the thread says a general rant, then surely everyone can join in and can rant about anything they wish, non?[8-|]

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[quote user="Swissie"][quote user="ebaynut"]

PROPERTY TAX EVASION.

 

In this completely hypothetical scenario,  [;-)]

 

The seller advertises his property for say 100,000 Euros.

The buyer offers less and a discount from the asking price of 23% is agreed.

Half of the actual price is declared to the Notaire, in this case 38500 Euros.

The rest is paid to the vendor in a brown paper envelope for "furniture".

The Notarie fees are based on this figure of 38500 Euros.

This happens with two more  property sales.

I think even the most laid back notaire will spot a pattern emerging here. ( a house which had an asking price of 100,000 Euros sold for 38500)

He ( the notarie) has lost money in his fees and the tax man has lost revenue.

It is the notaires duty to report this if he has suspicions of wrong doing, as failure to do so could implicate him also in this fraud, from which he has not benefited, but has lost financially.

Fraud on ones own is one thing, to conspire with another is far more serious, and so if found out, are the penalties.

 

Who also has lost out, well the agents who had spent time listing these properties, to see them sold for a fraction of their true value may be unhappy.

The vendor who, desperate to sell, had no choice but to go along with a deal which was fully in the financial interest of the buyer, may not be too happy when they think about it. ( sold their main asset at a knock down price to a speculator, with cash who was trying to make even more by making them participate in their plan to defraud , or they would not buy)

I could go on, but you get the picture. [:-))]

 

[/quote]

No, never EbayNut - nobody could ever be THAT dishonest, surely!


[/quote]

Of course that would be dishonest. The thing is though many Brits and French have false ideas of how much their house is worth in France and the system allows them to put it on the market for however much they want, even if the agent advices against it. In truth with a market that is still dropping in some areas, they are never going to get the inflated price they are asking. Notaires have a pretty good idea of what real prices are as they see the figures when the the contracts cross their desks, if they are really paying attention that is (how many people never get a reply to questions they ask a Notaire when they buy a house which indicates that half the time they never read emails or answer letters). With regards to agencies, anyone can offer to buy a property, at any price, that they know is for sale, however if that property is registered and under contract to sell with an agent they should not do a deal direct with the seller as they will more likely still have to pay the agency fees if discovered and the seller accepting such an offer is in breach of contract with the agent.

Everybody has a choice in life, life is full of choices, anyone can walk away from anything if they want, nobody is forced in to anything. What in fact you really find, on both sides, is greed, the biggest moral driving force in the world, one to get the lowest price possible, the other to get the highest whilst paying as little as possible so hence if such a sale went through both would get what they want. As to receiving half the agreed payment in cash, if the seller feels they are doing something illegal then they should reject it or tell the notaire they have received the money so he/she in turn can inform the tax authorities or other parties involved.

Again this is all hypothetical.

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I have no problem understanding that owners often have an inflated idea of what their house is worth. In our case, our and all 3 agents estimates were correct when we put our house on the market in Sept. 08. However, after being taken for a BIG ride by the first viewer - we had to revise value in the Spring of 09 - for very obvious reasons. With hindsight, I would have followed my instinct about the guy, instead of listening to his solicitor and our agent. Hindsight and all that - done and dusted- cost us a lot of stress and money, and but mainly for me that we arrived to late to be there for my parents. No regrets. We took 23% off and got on our way and are very happy.

The bit I do not understand is the 50% in a brown envelope. You say it is up to the seller to decide whether this is wrong and tax evasion - are you absolutely sure that the buyer is not also responsible in law? I would be interested if anybody could clarify this. We are considering buying a flat in France- but my husband would never ever consider doing anything like this unless he WAS ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that it is legal and above board.

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