Russethouse Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 For those of you who do not get UK News, you may like to know that Norman Kember, the hostage who has been held in Iraq, has been freed. More details at the BBC news website.I know it has nothing to do with France, but it is nice to have GOOD news for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 He's a very lucky man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Thats good to hear especially for his friends and family waiting in hope. He could have so easily been butchered by those animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Fantastic news - Our thoughts are with all the family, who must be so relieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shropshirelass Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Well it's a crying shame that he didn't have the courtesy to personally say a public thank you to the brave soldiers who risked life and limb to save him. In my opinion they should have left him there to suffer the consequences of his misguided actions. If he had an ounce of common sense he would have known that he risked kidnap and that ultimately it would result in some poor soldiers having to go and rescue him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Why a public thank you? Why is that necessary?In my opinion they should have left him there to suffer the consequences of his misguided actions. I think having his head hacked off would have been a very harsh punishment for 'lack of common sense' or being 'misguided'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 He said he didn't want a military operation to rescue him, so he wouldn't say thank you, would he? Just more evidence that he is a headstrong old man, not a reason not to rescue him. Agree with Tresco about decapitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 He might not have wanted a military rescue, but he got rescued none the less. Obviously, I don't know but I would imagine that the rescue was not without its risks to all involved.A big thank you is the least he can offer. I sincerely hope that any future charitable efforts by Mr Kember just involve rattling a collection tin outside woolies. I am glad he is back safe and he should thank his lucky stars that he did not end up the same way as many others; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I don't disagree with you, but given that he was pigheaded enough to go there against all advice and the wishes of his wife in the first place, expecting thanks from him is probably a waste of time. And he 'wanted to make a difference'. Well, he's certainly managed to do that - I imagine there were some casualties down the line as a result of his actions, and it cost a million quid to get him out. Perhaps the MOD should invoice him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vickybear Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Norman Kember has made a statement part of which is on TV now“I do not agree that lasting peace is achieved by armed force, but I pay tribute to their courage and thank those who played a part in my rescue” So there you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I think his missus may have had a word in his ear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Let's not forget that the American, Tom Fox, lost his life in this episode.Kember has been very fortunate indeed to be rescued.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Not big on pacifists Dick?Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Not at all down on them, Chris, not at all. There is a time for that, and Gandhi is a personal hero. In these circumstances, however, the guy put himself in harm's way to no good purpose and it all went predictably pear-shaped for him. In order for pacifism to be useful in these circumstances the other side had to be persuadable, and clearly they weren't. Either they were fanatics or criminals, and the general track record for meaningful dialogue with either group isn't encouraging. So he should have realised that if he was taken hostage (and I think his ego got in the way at this point) a military/security operation or the hostage takers having a change of heart and giving up were the only possibilities for his freedom. So that's the SAS then. So his pacifism is a complete sham, a posture, whether or not he realised it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I think that's pretty much my perspective as well Dick, mind you the terms pear-shaped and Iraq seems to cover a multitude of situations, but I digress..Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 [quote user="Dicksmith"]Not at all down on them, Chris, not at all. There is a time for that, and Gandhi is a personal hero. In these circumstances, however, the guy put himself in harm's way to no good purpose and it all went predictably pear-shaped for him. In order for pacifism to be useful in these circumstances the other side had to be persuadable, and clearly they weren't. Either they were fanatics or criminals, and the general track record for meaningful dialogue with either group isn't encouraging. So he should have realised that if he was taken hostage (and I think his ego got in the way at this point) a military/security operation or the hostage takers having a change of heart and giving up were the only possibilities for his freedom. So that's the SAS then. So his pacifism is a complete sham, a posture, whether or not he realised it.[/quote]The military should have kept to his wish of no rescue. But still he was rescued by the kindness of others and THAT deserves a BIG unapologetic Thank You on his part. Maybe his 'christian teachings' will make him see that. If our enlightened, elected grandees of this country took so much pain and effort to repatriate him, they should spend the same amount of energy to repatriate ALL of our soldiers. I ask myself time after time : WHO sent these (at best) misguided 'Mr Kember-type people' out there just the same as WHO did send these poor soldiers out there to fight for something which is neither for 'Queen' nor 'Country' but for the greed of a few.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 [quote user="Dicksmith"]He said he didn't want a military operation to rescue him, so he wouldn't say thank you, would he? Just more evidence that he is a headstrong old man, not a reason not to rescue him. Agree with Tresco about decapitation.[/quote]I prefer "stupid, selfish old fool" to "headstrong old man" . A great many people believe that the British military should not be in Iraq anyway - but never mind, the Britsih taxpayers pick up the bill for the rescue and he will have a great story to sell, won't he ? Where is it that charity begins ?Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 I wonder if the guys with him felt the same? Can you imagine them being rescued and him being left ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Absolutely spot on, Dick.The man is (almost) a nuisance and does nothing to put the terrible situation in Iraq right.Alfa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 There's an interesting leader piece in the Sunday Telegraph today about Mr K and his apparent unwillingness to share information about his kidnappers with the security services:here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmy Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Nust be true then, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davies Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I don't doubt that Norman Kember is genuine but if does refuse to co-operate, it's his choice but the authorities can hardly beblamed if they are then a bit sceptical, after all, not every kidnapping is what it appears,The Telegraph again, here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I read today that a Scottish woman with some connection to the group that Kember belonged to is planning to go to Iraq in the summer, and has already stated that she does not want a military rescue if she is kidnapped. Its a pity that the Iraq ' government' can't keep these people out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Sorry, Simmy, I don't understand your post in reply to mine. What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 DickThe surprise is that you read the Telegraph. I had guessed that you were more of an Independent / Observer man. Still - great that you have the power to surprise. I think that Simmy does not believe that because something is in a Telegraph leader column, that does not make it true.I agree with the editoral that by helping in a debrief of what he knew of his captors and their methods Kember could provide intellegence that might help free other captives and potential captives. His refusal and his reluctant and ungracious thanks confer no credit on him. Saddam, when he invaded Kuwait grabbed various westerners to be human shields for important installations. I know one of the Americans - who made himself so obnoxious to his captiors (and fellow human shields) - that Saddam's troops released him as soon as they could.The Telegraph, last week, related that the SAS nabbed one of the leaders of Kember's kidnappers. They arranged a deal whereby the other captors were allowed to leave the house where Kember and the Canadians were held, on the understanding that they would be left unharmed.One wonders what they thought as they left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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