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Anyone outside of the EU has to have an ID card and anyone from a member state which joined after 28th November 2004. The rest of us don't need them anymore. If you drive you should have a photo licence and if you dont the old passport is a safe bet, just saves any grief. Technically as a Brit living in France you can walk the street with no ID what so ever.
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I had always understood that a UK photo license was not adequate ID in France (i.e. you needed a UK passport or CdS).

I don’t remember anybody actually telling me this, its just an impression I have. I don’t actually always carry my passport but do when I may need to e.g. write a cheque. The one time I did need two Ids (for a mobile phone SIM subscription, with no warning, I did use my UK drivers licence and boy is the official number written small and well hidden on it).

I would dearly love to stop carrying my passport as at this rate I’ll be needing a new one every few years (as it falls apart).

If somebody can tell me a UK photo drivers license is adequate ID I will be very grateful.

Ian
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[quote user="Teamedup"]

No ID whatsoever????????????

 

Don't think so, think we are all obliged to carry ID with us. We just don't have to have a titre de sejour anymore.

[/quote]

Now theres the rub because the law that was around before they got rid of the CDS did not appear to change yet the law changing the rules about having CDS does not propose an required alternative and the UK is not the only country that does not have an ID card. I think (I can here the human rights activists hairs bristling from here) that the only true logical solution is to have a compulsory EU ID card. Whoops there I have said it, I shall just wait for the backlash.

Tell you what though you could totally confuse the French police with this one.

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There is no law that says that french people have to have an ID card. They have to be able to prove their identity. The ID card is the easiest way (and now it's free) Of course, you can get into problems for things like applying for a driving license if they ask for a photocpy of an ID card. On the other hand, the list of ID's that they accept for you to vote is amazing.

I've used my passport as ID in france before, but I prefer not to. First I don't like wandering around with my passport and second, it confuses people when I write a french cheque and then use British ID. They don't know what numbers to copy on the back. If I hadn't got a French ID between times I would have applied for a new TdS when my last one ran out, even if it isn't obligatory.

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[quote user="Quillan"] I think (I can here the human rights activists hairs bristling from here) that the only true logical solution is to have a compulsory EU ID card. Whoops there I have said it, I shall just wait for the backlash.[/quote]

You won't upset me saying that.  I think ID cards are an excellent idea.  I think the only people that can justifiably complain about them are those with something to hide.

I've got a 5 year CDS and I shall be really upset when it expires.  I'm much happier carrying that around than my passport.  Can I get my CDS renewed when it expires even though it's no longer the law?

Love

Scarlett

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[Scarlett asked] Can I get my CDS renewed when it expires even though it's no longer the law?

Two years ago the answer was yes – in some areas. Apparently some departments were saying no and not issuing them. However the, I was told that you can get one, though I the few areas where they did not issue them you might have had a bit of an argument.

I can only quote what I was told then by a British consul – never got one myself.

Ian
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Scarlett, yes you can get it renewed, just apply and insist if they say no.

 

Quillan, there is no rub. Just because folks may not have to have a titre de sejour, doesn't mean to say that they must not carry ID with them. And ofcourse a passport is probably what is expected. No idea about photo driving licenses. My UK one is still green and definitely no photo.

 

I don't like ID cards. I reckon that such things are simply to embetent ordinary folks going about their everyday lives. I am sure that criminals will be able to get hold of false ID.

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I agree that ID cards are a stupid waste of money. What good will they do except give the police something to do asking to see them? Just one more thing to lose and so much hassle (and expense) to replace. The 7/7 bombers would all have had ID cards so how will it help terrorism? I'm wondering if when the UK gets them it will just apply to UK citizens. My husband is American. If it does only apply to UK citizens then the laughable situation will be that you'll have foreigners walking around ID-free completely legally and Brits in their own country having to prove their ID! Nobody has mentioned foreigners having to have ID cards. They say they will issue them with UK passports so it seems those with no UK passport will get away with it.

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This is how  it seems to me. bearing in mind, that I did consult my French lawyer friend, who just happens to be deeply involved in international Human Rights issues.

I don't have to mandatorily possess a French ID card when I finally move to France, full time.

I do have to be able to prove my identity. I can apply for a French ID card and not have to pay for it.

Since I must be able to prove my identity in France and the ID card carries a photograph, I think this is a good idea.

France is awash with form fillers and love forms! Indeed, the French state runs on paperwork: and has done for many years. Thus it should, in theory, be far easier to assure my actual identity during the ID application process.

In the UK, I will be compelled by law to register, own and carry an ID card.

I will have to pay for this "Privilege"!

With their record to date (irrespective of party in power) Government have an awful reputation of managing anything to do with computerised anything: particularly records! e.g. NATS; Social Security Cards; Home Office; Passports; Inland Revenue; NHS; CSA; keep on going!

Despite the claims for biometric integrity, with current levels of identity theft and the chaotic state of Government's databases, it will be quite simple for a person with a false identity, to apply and have their biometric data included with their false ID.

Government crow that the ID card will make Britain safer: this is arrant nonsense!

Current Government records are in a total mess!

DNA samples are retained from a wide range of persons, not later charged with any offence.

Britain is rapidly becoming awash with CCTV systems, capable of reading (e.g.) car index numbers.

Plans for motorway tolling, GSM 'phones and finally RFID (Chipping products instead of barcodes), will trace and track people going about their lawful business.

UK compulsory ID cards are yet a further erosion of Civil Liberties.

When someone's identity is stolen or their car index cloned, it is extremely difficult (and costly) to disprove alleged actions; as recent cses highlighted have shown.

I conclude that far more safeguards must be in place firstly, against Government abuses in the UK and the integrity of core data used to create and maintain any database populated with ID card details, must firstly be assured.

Just my twopennorth.

 

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As a member of HM Forces I have carried an ID card for some 29 years, it is part of me like, for some, their mobile or house keys - when I retire to our house in France it will have been 37 years.  There is a lot of useful debate about ID cards and their implementation.  Personally I consider that the only folk that should be concerned are those that are illegal immigrants, working illegally or trying to dodge the system in some way - the sooner that these practices are stopped the sooner our tax can be usefully employed.  When I see that another muslim cleric is claiming for multiple wives and up to 15 children on our system, then denigrating that system, my blood boils.  Being a bleeding heart liberal has its place but let us not forget that those that take advantage of the system are not cut from the same cloth.  Naturally I will now batten down the hatches for the inevitable diatribe.
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Gluestick wrote: "I can apply for a French ID card and not have to pay for it."

Just to be pedantic, only French nationals can apply for an ID card. Foreigners living in France may (and many have to) apply for titre de sejour, which although it is a legal form of ID within France, cannot be used in the ways that a French ID card is used, e.g. instead of a passport when travelling to some countries.

And some prefectures make a charge for issuing the titre de sejour, I believe I have heard 55€ mentioned.

I agree with Gluestick's other points, particularly that about the ID card not making things safer.

Politically I am a liberal but don't think my heart is bleeding? And I do not object to the fundamental principle of ID cards. In fact I would prefer it if France returned to the former system where every resident had to have either a national ID card or titre de sejour. The present system where non-French people seem to be able to abuse (sorry, take advantage of) various systems due to not having to apply for the card, and thus provide proof of their financial viability or otherwise, is not good, neither for the French nor for those of us British us who pay our way here. But we have the Brussels view of free movement and civil liberties to thank for that.

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Although I’m generally more “maintain our rights”, etc. and I’m against the UK ID card but I would not be against a compulsory EU ID card.

My objections to the UK scheme are not against having to carry an ID card, its just that the UK scheme is excessive, flawed, does not address all the things the government clams it will and has a large number of possible extensions that would turn the UK into a police state.

The UK scheme is flawed in that their biometric individual identification is “bleeding edge” and does not (yet) uniquely identify an individual. The technology requires further development and there is almost certainly not time to do this before the scheme is implemented. We have seen how much help the UK government gives people when they are incorrectly mis-identified (e.g. the British pensioner who was arrested for the CIA in South Africa a few years ago).

It is excessive in that it is a far more complex scheme that e.g. the French, the Spanish, etc. and the added complexity does not help anybody be identified. The excessive nature also adds to the flaws of the scheme. The security of the proposed scheme has already been broken by Dutch technologists. Of course these flaws will be fixed, but others will be found. Having so much information about you in one place in electronic form will not reduce identity theft but actually make it much easier (so experts seem to be saying). At the moment they need several bits of your ID to steal your ID – read your card and they would have everything they need.

It does not appear to address all the stated aims. This I have to base on what e.g. the police seem to be saying. The government say it is necessary to fight terrorism (as everything seems to be these days). However, the police seem to be saying that it will make little difference in this regard.

Police state: Once the scheme has been introduced and running for a few years it will not take much of a law change to link the ID database to other systems. Justification will be easy “reduction of fraud”, “cost savings”, “war on terror”, 101 other things. Such a law change may easily slip through unnoticed. However, it would then give the authorities unprecedented powers. Link it to e.g. Close Circuit TV cameras (with some face recognition software) and people are being tracked. Link it to e.g. road/bridge tolls or number plate identification speed cameras and you are tracking people further. Allow the credit card companies to validate transitions against it (to reduce fraud and identity theft) and you are tracking people’s location, spending habits, pretty well everything they are doing.

Personally I think a EU ID card would be a much better idea. It would have far greater application and usefulness. Quite a few people (obviously myself as well) do not completely trust the UK government. However, I would (maybe wrongly) have greater trust in there being adequate (or better) safeguards under an EU scheme.

And its already changed from being voluntary (as in Labour’s manifesto) to now being compulsory (2010 onwards). I thought Labour placed great importance on what it had said in its manifesto – but not when it does not suit Tony’s vision !!

(I’m not a security expert – obvious parts of the above are from what I’ve read in published information).

Ian

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[quote user="Chezstevens"]As a member of HM Forces I have carried an ID card for some 29 years, it is part of me like, for some, their mobile or house keys - when I retire to our house in France it will have been 37 years.  There is a lot of useful debate about ID cards and their implementation.  Personally I consider that the only folk that should be concerned are those that are illegal immigrants, working illegally or trying to dodge the system in some way - the sooner that these practices are stopped the sooner our tax can be usefully employed.  When I see that another muslim cleric is claiming for multiple wives and up to 15 children on our system, then denigrating that system, my blood boils.  Being a bleeding heart liberal has its place but let us not forget that those that take advantage of the system are not cut from the same cloth.  Naturally I will now batten down the hatches for the inevitable diatribe.[/quote]

Chez:

Can you please expand, in your own perspective, just how you believe that compulsory ID cards al la Teflon Tony model, will cut out the abuses and etc you list?

Have those much heralded Wonderkind, ASBOs really made much impact on bad behaviour?

Why not, for once, apply the raft of laws already in place?

Surely, the present Charles "Sticky Out Ears" Clark/Lothario Blunkett concept is, as before, just another political Knee Jerk "Solution", which fails to address the root problems?

I was always taught, that when problem solving, the first step is to gather all the data about the problem and understand it! Not just pay lipservice to it!

One cannot promote a solution until and unless one understands the problem: totally.

Factor in the clear reality that those creating these "Solutions" also fail to comprehend the problems associated with large, interactive data processing and record storage systems and what you actually have, is yet another potential multi-billion pound fiasco. Might be nice for such as EDS or Capita, but not much use for us on the receiving (and paying!) end!

I think that most people agree, that it is only those with something to hide, who could object strongly to carrying some form of instant ID: if we lived in a fair, balanced and well governed society, where checks and balances were both in place and effective. We don't: they're not!

 

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I think the Brits should have a referendum on the subject of ID card, well they havn't had one since Ted Heath (I think it was) was in power. I too like the idea of an EU card but I don't see anyhting wrong with the UK developing one as well. The only thing what worries me as an expat is how do I get one and how do I get it renewed and how much will it cost me. I say this with thought to the new passorts which I believe are also biometric when they come out and I can see us all having to go on a beano to gay Paris to get our eye's scanned and DNA taken or whatever now thats a 20hr drive there and back for me.

On a more serious note I didn't thing that the card in it's self actually held biometric data, well no more so than the new chip and pin cards. Rather like the new Carte Vitals (still haven't seen one yet) the data is on a seperate computer centrally and your card gives you access. I like the idea of having to enter a pin code as well. This would make it more difficult for people to forge. In truth at the end of the day whatever you do it will only reduce the problems, it will never fully cure them completely. Where there is a will there is a way so the 'high tech' criminals will no doupt find a way round the system.

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

Might be nice for such as EDS or Capita, but not much use for us on the receiving (and paying!) end!

[/quote]

Well if you believe the press and EDS are involved it will never work. One only has to look at the press a year ago to see how many local councils settled out of court to get ride of them (EDS). Thats general knowledge and printed in not just the national press but Computer Weekly and a few of it's sister papers as well. Dont know about Capita, I though they were running bus's now.but I might be wrong.

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Passport wise - the USA are now, from personal experience, taking an index finger scan and photo of head and shoulders plus reading the data strip on current passport.  I have been thru the States some 6 times in the last year and, after the initial pause for the scan, they are able to ensure that at least it is the same person - once the EEC catches up with reasonable biometric information then I am sure this will work even more effectively.

I have seen, but thankfully not used, several Brits working on the black do a midnight flit after the Gendarmes have visited.  Both times there were people left with large sums owed for kitchens and staircases - one charmer set fire to a locals' staircase with his cigarette!!  Decent biometric ID, perhaps in place of passports, will ensure that the culprits are caught.  Registry thru the local authorities, even the Maire, should not be difficult nowadays with the internet allowing the culprits to be pursued more efficiently - don't scoff or be negative I hope it is coming throughout Europe.

There appears to be a storm in the Dordogne area with people improperly claiming benefits - quelle surprise!!  And was it 40% of them Brits?  Within the EEC there are countless cases of the taxpayer footing the bill - medical tourism, housing etc.

If you are abiding the law then frankly you should embrace this new technology.

I will be visiting our house next week in a vehicle that is properly MOT'd, taxed and insured - how many Brits living in France that you, or your friends, know that aren't?   I pay my taxes - how many Brits work on the black? 

People that flout the rules are doing us all a disservice.  The new biometric systems will hopefully cut it down.

 

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[quote user="Chezstevens"]

Registry thru the local authorities, even the Maire, should not be difficult nowadays... I hope it is coming throughout Europe.

[/quote]

Sorry, but that's exactly what France had, through its carte de sejour, before Europe forced it to abandon the idea for those from other EU states. It wasn't biometric, and was easy enough to forge, but it seemed to do a reasonable job in weeding out or deterring many of the frauds and low life.

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EDS is Electronic Data Services, the software and data processing outfit started originally by Ross Perot, the billionaire Texan who ran for President some time ago.

Then sold out to General Motors: then sold to its managers. They have been involved (with others, such as Arthur Anderson Consulting, now Accenture) in a number of disastrous UK government IT systems.

 

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

EDS is Electronic Data Services, the software and data processing outfit started originally by Ross Perot, the billionaire Texan who ran for President some time ago.

Then sold out to General Motors: then sold to its managers. They have been involved (with others, such as Arthur Anderson Consulting, now Accenture) in a number of disastrous UK government IT systems.

 

[/quote]

This is one of their systems:

http://www.aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf

You need your sound turned on to understand the full horror of this recent US development.

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

This is how  it seems to me. bearing in mind, that I did consult my French lawyer friend, who just happens to be deeply involved in international Human Rights issues.

I don't have to mandatorily possess a French ID card when I finally move to France, full time.

I do have to be able to prove my identity. I can apply for a French ID card and not have to pay for it.

Since I must be able to prove my identity in France and the ID card carries a photograph, I think this is a good idea.

France is awash with form fillers and love forms! Indeed, the French state runs on paperwork: and has done for many years. Thus it should, in theory, be far easier to assure my actual identity during the ID application process.

In the UK, I will be compelled by law to register, own and carry an ID card.

I will have to pay for this "Privilege"!

With their record to date (irrespective of party in power) Government have an awful reputation of managing anything to do with computerised anything: particularly records! e.g. NATS; Social Security Cards; Home Office; Passports; Inland Revenue; NHS; CSA; keep on going!

Despite the claims for biometric integrity, with current levels of identity theft and the chaotic state of Government's databases, it will be quite simple for a person with a false identity, to apply and have their biometric data included with their false ID.

Government crow that the ID card will make Britain safer: this is arrant nonsense!

Current Government records are in a total mess!

DNA samples are retained from a wide range of persons, not later charged with any offence.

Britain is rapidly becoming awash with CCTV systems, capable of reading (e.g.) car index numbers.

Plans for motorway tolling, GSM 'phones and finally RFID (Chipping products instead of barcodes), will trace and track people going about their lawful business.

UK compulsory ID cards are yet a further erosion of Civil Liberties.

When someone's identity is stolen or their car index cloned, it is extremely difficult (and costly) to disprove alleged actions; as recent cses highlighted have shown.

I conclude that far more safeguards must be in place firstly, against Government abuses in the UK and the integrity of core data used to create and maintain any database populated with ID card details, must firstly be assured.

Just my twopennorth.

 

[/quote]

Don't know whether anyone remembers this thread.

However, bit of a furore in Old Blighty ce soir.

A whistle blower has blown the gaff on the government's waste of circva £5.5 billion of taxpayers' money on consultants on major IT projects; people, like well EDS![:P]

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