Re: For the Record

[ali-cat]

When I first joined this forum I asked about the cost of living & received one particiular reply, as follows:-

 "I am somewhat more than bemused, you want to move to France and dont know how much things are cost of living etc. Go on tell you do not speak french eithier,some folks on here will hold your hand and tell you what you want to hear,others will tell you as it is,there is no sub. for doing your own leg work."

Having just read the mods PM to Miki it reminded me of this reply - as it was condecending, made me feel like something to be wiped of a shoe & very nearly led to me never logging on again.  I received quite a few PM's later that day from members telling me to ignore the post as the writer was know to offend & thrived on trying to upset people.  I didn't expect to see the same sort of condecending language coming form a Mod.

The writer of the post I received  - Le Bouffon.

[Debra]

3 according to Gay in this thread and 'the number' according to the message to Miki - and I don't think the person he was debating with made 3 complaints so were there really 3?  Who knows......

[Tag]

( Did old Bouffie really write that message? Look at the language!)

[Debra]

quote ali@ards (for some reason quote block not working)

"I didn't expect to see the same sort of condecending language coming form a Mod.

The writer of the post I received  - Le Bouffon."

Actually I did wonder if the message sent to Miki was actually meant for Le Bouffon as it sounds more like him/his behaviour that is being described.  A mistake perhaps?  Perhaps the new moderator used a standard Le B warning email as a template for his email to Miki? 

[vervialle]

Well at least we all know now, there is nothing we can do,I would just like to end my posts on the matter by thanking Miki for all his helpful comments and on the lighter side the times I laughed out loud on a dull wet miserable evening when you have just returned from France to the rat race of work,I will miss his banter with Dick.Enough said!!!!!! PS from a personal point of view I do not aggree with the ban and think its the forums loss.

[Deimos]

If you cannot see what has been going on here over the last couple of months then I suspect you make been skipping posts or maybe using those famed “rose tinted spectacles”. I think for many the background and reasons are petty clear. IMHO Miki knew where he was going yet continued, he was warned by his friends where we was going but he continued.

I had always understood that the forum was run by Archant, using Archant resources and paid for them, etc.. I understood that moderators were appointed by Archant to manage the board based on the Code of Conduct and using their judgement. I was not aware that the forum membership was supposed to have any say in the appointment of Moderators. I thought the moderators were answerable to Archant, not participants to feel it should be otherwise. Similarly I was not aware of any requirement that their full personal details be published. Some are demanding to know who they are – Why. So we say Mod XXX is called John. What difference does that make ? Ok, John Smith (does that help more ?) Ok his address and phone number are xxxxx – what happens now ? Or could it be that we are seeing a continuation of the “lets have a pop at the moderators about anything and everything”.

Just because something has been going on for a long time does not make it right and does not mean that it should be ignored. Comments like “its just his way” might be difficult to justify. Without suggesting anything about anybody on the forum (past or present), should one say “its just their way” about football hooligans ? What about graffiti (I’m sure people can think of other examples) ?

And where is all this getting us ? What is it achieving ? If you were Archant would you continue paying out for all this ?

By the way, anybody heard of a country called France ?

Ian

[ali-cat]

[quote user="Tag"]( Did old Bouffie really write that message? Look at the language!)[/quote]

Yup!  Cut & pasted it from the original post.  Thanks to all those who sent me PM's about it.  It really upset me at the time - I hit the red stuff just after reading it & started shouting at the cats!!  Poor wee things didn't deserve it.  [:@]

[Dick Smith]

You are hardly an unbiased commentator on this, Ian.

You have also been on the receiving end on another forum - in fact I think that you, like me, are banned from there, and I don't think you did anything to deserve a ban either.

This forum used to be well moderated, and then, as someone else said, the 'officer' of the mods left for personal reasons. Since then the feeling that the mods are a disciplined group has grown, and the new mod seems to think that he is the new officer! Recipe for disaster all round.

So it isn't having a pop, it is 'look at the rubbish we are putting up with'. Do you want to see the text of my 'warning'? It was just as disgraceful as Miki's, especially as Forum Admin then told me that it was badly written and didn't mean what it said, but meant something else which I was really being warned about! James must be tearing his hair out.

[Tag]

Lets see if anyone can rewrite the Mod's note to Miki to make it more acceptable. In, lets say, not more than 100 words. The kind of task I might give my more advanced students. I'll offer my own contribution later in the day when I have finished correcting their invective against "Intelligent Design".

[Deby]

Do you know I have flicked through some of the comments here and zoned out a bit,  I really have no idea of what is going on. One thing I do know is (without getting into the who said what to whom scenario) is Le Bouffon or any of the other antagonistic posters (not inc Miki) are having a field day with this, they have succeeded in upsetting the forum and causing strife and conflict.  Can you not see this?

By banning Miki, you have made him a martyr!  The moderators have lost the plot and allowed personal feelings and power to get out of hand.  For goodness state, re-instate Miki and close the issues  down, anything else can be dealt with privately and move on.  Simple solution really.  Othewrise as i stated earlier, the trolls have won.

Deby

[Tag]

What? Please explain Dick or I'll attack that monkey!

[Dick Smith]

Tag - I hope you are only correcting their language!

Sorry, posts crossed over - explain what?

[KathyC]

If I'd been written to in that tone of voice, then I would have told them where to stuff their forum!

I've always found Miki's posts to be either informative or amusing: sometimes both (quite an achievement). If he doesn't come back it will be the forum's loss and many of us may migrate as well. This would be a shame as I have always felt this to be one of the more robust and interesting fora around.

Altogether now:

"Hey Miki, you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind. Hey Miki, hey Miki"

[Tag]

Yo Dick,

"De Lawd called me n George W to get them back on de path of righteousness!"

Your reply to Ian contains many references to past incidents which makes it difficult for an outsider to cue in.

 

[Debra]

As Deby said, Miki should just be reinstated so we can all move on and get the forum back to normal.  KathyC - my sentiments exactly. 

[Dick Smith]

Sorry, but to make it make more sense Ian would have to be more forthright, or I would be betraying a confidence. It is an interesting story with at least two sides.

[Deimos]

[Dick commented]: “You are hardly an unbiased commentator on this, Ian.”

Very true. I have been called all sorts of nasty names, had my posts leapt on, been accused of all sort of things that I have not done but I’ve shut-up, ignored it as to argue back would have continued the discord in the forum. I’ve had a massive post written about me trying to show how inconsistent I am in what I write. And now seems that the person I’m reading about cannot be the person who called me a “winger”, “pillock”, etc. who tells me I’m a “well knowm complainer” (seems this accuser requires no evidence as everybody else seems to be demanding now “the tables are turned”) – yet I’ve ignored the lot and now I’m told “butter would not melt in his mouth”.

But then maybe its “just his way”.

Ian

(This is probably an unwise post but things have got totally out of hand).

[Dick Smith]

One of the common features here is that people have been told that there have been complaints against them by moderators.

This is a problem with at least two dimensions.

Moderators now (but not in the past) will not say who complained or what the nature of the complaint was. Therefore if I wanted to 'stalk' Miki I could just complain about him every time he posted. These complaints are supposed to be followed up, but from my own experience I know that this only happens in some cases. This leads to a suspicion of prejudice on the part of moderators.

There are then inconsistencies in the number of complaints referred to. I will expand on this if Ian agrees. In my own case complaints were allegedly made, but the number was in question. The nature was in question (I have referred to it elsewhere). It also seems that in warning me the mods were responding to a threat from a certain person to come back yet again. I believe that similar shenanigins have happened in Miki's case. He was certainly under the impression (from moderators) that a number of complaints had been made by the same person, who assures me that this is not true, although a single, probably justified, complaint was made.

So what this comes back to is the question mark over the quality of moderating that we are enduring at the moment. I have been advised not to post the text of Quillan's message to me, but I can assure you it makes Miki's message look like a birthday card. I have no argument with some of the moderators other than they allow these other things to continue.

I think that a good moderator could have defused the situation between Ian and Miki, and could have very easily have solved the problem which led to the very long and combative thread.

Now, this is why it is important. You may or may not like Miki (or me, or Twinkle, or Zeb100 or a number of other posters who tend to cause reactions in others) but you have the freedom to argue with us, ignore us or report us. But a good moderator will not immediately react by regarding all complaints, serious or less serious, as hanging offences. Moderators are there to moderate - to arbitrate and conciliate in the background. That takes a bit if tact and thought.

How do we get to be a moderator? I volunteered, and I was laughed out of court. Why? Because I once said that moderators were a bit sad, and of course, ours often are. But it seems Eslier volunteered and was taken on. Does anyone think I would have sent such an insulting and condescending message? Would any of you reading this? Would Ian, as an aggrieved party? I think not. That needs some consideration.

I agree, in Quillan's words to me, that I neither own the forum nor moderate it. But I think we all have a right to comment on how well those who do moderate it carry out the task.

[opas]

Just for the record. Le Bouffons name keeps popping up here, he has had nothing to do with this forum for at least 3 weeks, sinse HE was banned , he hasn`t got access to a decent radio never mind a PC.

[Dick Smith]

So you didn't make the complaint against me for using his tag line? If that is so, it is very interesting...

[Debra]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]How do we get to be a moderator? I volunteered, and I was laughed out of court. Why? Because I once said that moderators were a bit sad, and of course, ours often are. But it seems Eslier volunteered and was taken on. Does anyone think I would have sent such an insulting and condescending message? Would any of you reading this? Would Ian, as an aggrieved party? I think not. That needs some consideration.[/quote]Actually  I think you'd make a very good and fair moderator, Dick, but I think you'd also find it frustrating as you wouldn't be able to be so free with your "spell checker" posts!  It wouldn't be in the right spirit and it would be very unfair for a moderator to pick people up on spelling and grammar!!  (Is this what's coming next??)  I find it odd that you were refused as I for one would have found you a natural choice for the position.

[Tag]

Why did you take away his radio? Is he doing a period of penance walled up in a hermit's cave? Any other punishments inflicted such as withdrawal of food, conjugal rights etc? All just because he got banned from the LF forum?

[Dick Smith]

Look - I don't correct spellings except one person! Except sometimes when they are funny. I make spelling mistakes too, you know. I made one in 2002.

To be serious - some people can't spell - possibly due to duslexia (I left that in on purpose) - and I have every sympathy for them. One of my best school chums was a terrible dyslexic, you have to read everything he writes out loud whilst doing a Michael Caine impersonation to make any sense of it. I understand that. I work with a lot of dyslexic kids, and a lot of kids who just can't be bothered to do it properly. There's a big difference!

What gets me is people who write i for I or who make no attempt to punctuate. I am old and grumpy enough to see that as simply being discourteous to the reader.

BTW - in the case of a certain person most of the mis-spellings were put in for effect, hence the corrections.

[opas]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]So you didn't make the complaint against me for using his tag line? If that is so, it is very interesting...
[/quote]

When did I say that?

And you have never complained about any of my posts either, have you?

Oh and if you are refering to LB and mis spelling for effect........wrong, he cannot spell to save his life and neither is he au fait with a keyboard.

[Tag]

It is surprising you were not offered a moderatorship, Dick. You seem to be educated, articulate, willing to debate yet not entirely unreasonable. Also the only poster who has gone from adult to child to monkey in a kind of reverse Darwinism (or is it?). You also seem willing to dedicate the time instead of planting onions in Normandy.

On the other hand, how about Miki and Opas becoming mods? "Set a thief ..." and all that?