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How do les Anglais Make You Wince?


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[quote user="wen"]

A ridiculously PC explanation if ever I saw one.

[/quote]

What are you referring to, wen.

By the way, no thanks to the Irish joke. I take it you're not Irish? Is the concept of being able too laugh at yourself, but it not feeling quite the same when someone else is laughing at you one you can 'get'?

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[quote user="Tresco"]

I take it you're agreeing with wen, gluey fella, rather than benedicte?

I thought PC gone mad was things like not being able to call black coffee, black coffee, not about people getting seriously narked by sweeping statements about whole groups (nations or races) of people.

[/quote]

No, not agreeing with anyone on this thread, Tres: far too smart![:D] Despite the fact that I started it and it has gone way off track.[:P]

One of the things I really love about people, is the ability to laugh at themselves.

I used to travel to Southern Ireland and Dublin particularly quite a lot, in the late 70s and early 80s and one night when I was staying in an hotel in Dublin, I read a local biz mag (as you do) before sleeping.

I found a wonderful Irish joke.

Q.How many men does it take to fit a lightbulb in Dublin? A. two. One to hold the bulb and one to twist the man holding the bulb.

Q. How many men does it take to fit a lightbulb in new York City? A. Fifty. One to fit the bulb, one to carry his toolbag: 24 to decide the best way to do the job. And 24 to decide whether the job is esential in the firstplace.

Q. How many men does it take to fit a lightbulb in California? A. Fifty. One to fit the bulb; and 49 to share the experience, Baby!

Says it all for me.

 

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OOOps![:$][:$] Iget it now, Tres: Benedicte's post was captured before mine: I meant my agreement to Wen's comment, re racism defined, not the other way around! Sorry. Brain (what brain?) on strike at present!).

What I meant, Tres, was about calling Irish jokes racist and being able to laugh at yourself!

Personally, as I have said before, the whole PC thing leaves me cold. My local unitary authority (posh expression for council: makes no difference, they're still bloody useless!) has now printed all their internal contact list with every women as "Ms".

I used to be involved in certain intiatives with the council and used to delight in taking the P***, by asking married women, "When did you divorce your husband then? I thought you were happy?"

I read in a newspaper (well, a bundle os sheets of paper, containg endless pages of celebdom and football, really) yesterday, one story about a recent widow and they called her "Ms" URRGGHH![:@]

 

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

...used to delight in taking the P***, by asking married women, "When did you divorce your husband then? I thought you were happy?"

...one story about a recent widow and they called her "Ms" URRGGHH![:@]

[/quote]

Nope, don't get it. How does a woman's choice of title provide a source of delighted amusement? Why does being known as Ms indicate divorce? [8-)][8-)] Still, I bet they really really laughed.

And perhaps the widow gave her title as Ms. Do you definitely know that she didn't chose that?  

 

Now I need a <raised eyebrows> smiley.

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I can call myself a kipper: but if I happen to be lamb chop, well surely that would promote some derision at my expense?

The title "Ms" was invented by American women who were divorced, not widowed and no longer wished to return to "Miss" nor wanted to accorded the title of "Mrs".

Ergo: if married women called themselves "Ms" or more correctly, allowed, themselves to be called "Ms", by the PC idiots, it is as logical as me calling myself Mrs!

To me, it just shows how a trend is fast picked up by media clowns who can't write correctly: and before you know it, it's all over the place, destroying the language.

Why does this matter? I receive large numbers of business letters, where the signer's sex and marital or other status is not known. So when I telephone and naturally ask for Mr X, to be told that there is no Mr X, then it is confusing: to myself and the callee.

OK, so women find the assumption of many years that a signature title with no description (i.e. Mrs of Miss) must be Mister, sexist. OK, then put ALL titles at the end of business letters then. Simple really.

But why call Mrs's Ms's: might as well call my cat a dog!

 

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Gluestick, that is rubbish regarding divorcées.   I know other men who think Ms means hairy-legged lesbian but there are ignorant people everywhere.  Women who call themselves "Ms" are doing is as it is none of your business whether or not we are married.  That is it.  It is not destroying language, language evolves.  I don't see too many Esq written on envelopes any more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms. for the orgins of Ms - it does NOT indicate divorce and I suggest you learn more about it before you start slagging people off.

A woman does not necessarily want to be defined by whether or not she is married, particularly in the public sphere. You're not, so why should I be.  That is my choice, and I really don't see why it is such a big deal for you to respect my choice and to mock women like me.  It's not a "media trend", it is something that many of us feel strongly about. 

 

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>>>Personally, as I have said before, the whole PC thing leaves me cold. My local unitary authority (posh expression for council: makes no difference, they're still bloody useless!) has now printed all their internal contact list with every women as "Ms".<<<

That is stupid IMHO - surely what they should have done was print the whole list using both the men and womens first name and surname.

How does anyones marital status effect their ability to do the job ?

I'll duck now while you all tell me...........[:-))]

 

 

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

...surely what they should have done was print the whole list using both the men and womens first name and surname.

[/quote]

I was about to say "exactly, Gay" but then it occurred to me that in a multi-cultural society, the sex of a person is not always obvious from the name. Even ordinary British names - Lesley (f) / Leslie (m) and Frances (f) and Francis (m) have become muddled in the last 50 years so I suppose, though I instinctively agreed with you, it is helpful to be able to ask (with some confidence [6]) for Mr or Ms X.

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

I can call myself a kipper...  

[/quote]

Please do... [:-))]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Ergo: if married women called themselves "MS" or more correctly, allowed, themselves to be called "MS", by the PC idiots, it is as logical as me calling myself Mrs!

[/quote]

[I] But wait, am I confused? Has this turned into a Bill Gates discussion while I was away... [Www]

 

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[quote user="Gluestick"] I receive large numbers of business letters, where the signer's sex and marital or other status is not known. So when I telephone and naturally ask for Mr X, to be told that there is no Mr X, then it is confusing: to myself and the callee.

OK, so women find the assumption of many years that a signature title with no description (i.e. Mrs of Miss) must be Mister, sexist. OK, then put ALL titles at the end of business letters then. Simple really.

But why call Mrs's Ms's: might as well call my cat a dog! [/quote]

I've been a Ms since I was 18.

When I don't know the gender of the person I am telephoning for, I wouldn't 'naturally ask for Mr' so and so. There are several different ways I could phrase the question so as not to confuse or irritate the person I am speaking to. 

Mr denotes male, Ms denotes female, whereas Mrs denotes married female and Miss unmarried female.

What business is it of anybodys whether a woman is married or not?

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To further the debate: I was going to sight the example: you presumably wouldn't ask a nun to be a marriage councellor - but when I thought about it  I realised I was wrong, to start with some orders take widows and I suspect some  priests give advise on marriage and other matters of which they have no direct experience.. (this isn't a criticism of priests either)

Are there any jobs that still have to be done by one sex or the other, leaving aside issues of physical strength.?

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Are women firefighters expected to climb ladders and retrieve people from bedroom windows?  I would feel enormously cheated it this happened to me.  [Www].  Seriously,  I have heard that their exercise regime is more gentle than that of their male colleagues.  If this is the case they should sack the lot of them.
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Firemen rescuing you from ladders? What are you on 3K?

These days they either send a Fire Service Care Assistant round to complete a form as your house burns,  to "prove" how the fire service is doing under Teflon Tony, or a Traumatic Stress Counsellor, to shout up advice on how to deal with the pain!

Please forgive my sick humour: I have nothing but true admiration for firefighters and believe that like so much in Britain, they are mainly unrecognised, under-paid and taken for granted.

One of the ladies who used to work for me was married to a firefighter, who was retired early as he was injured in a church set alight by vandals.[:@]  He used to wax lyrical about the sex thing. His local station spent tens of thousands building female facilities, yet couldn't spend on equipment upgrades.............

A young lad I knew wanted to join the service: the firefighter, when asked for his advice, asked if the would be applicant was an ethnic minority female lesbian with one leg? When told no, he said, well he stands no chance then! How low can morale sink when  you are risking your life?

 

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