How do les Anglais Make You Wince?

[hastobe]

I still remember my visit to a welsh dentist 40 years on.  I was

just four years old and we were on a caravan holiday in Wales. My face

had swelled up and hurt like mad.  (Found out later I had an

abcess).  I was taken to a local dentist and they removed my tooth

- but throughout the whole procedure they spoke welsh.  I can

still remember being absolutely terrified - I had nightmares about it

for ages afterwards.  People in white coats saying things I

couldn't understand....and hurting me.

Looking back now it was just thoughtless and selfish behaviour on the part of the staff.   Basically just ignorance.

But when I was taking my professional exams I've seen fellow students

(foreign language graduates) switch to French or German when other (non

language) students walked into the room.  Again just damn rude.

Hastobe

[Just Katie]

St Amour, thank you for your remarks towards myself and Twinkle.  With the Welsh language thing, I would find it rude for any nationality to speak a language their 'guests' do not understand.  As I said earlier, the North Waleans fiercly guard their culture (we are more integrated in the south).  Believe me, they are far harsher to the South Waleans than to the English.  But what the heck, we are a small island and I really would not take it to heart.

Incidentally, I was queuing (sp?) in Woolworth last summer and there was an English family behind me. The children complained about the length of time it was taking.  The father said "well children, you ARE in Wales and have to wait for them to clean the chalk from the slate".  He said this in a loud and rather plummy English voice about six inches from my ear.

So there we go there are rude people everywhere.  But my fellow forum users, you all know that anyway.

[Dick Smith]

It isn't confined to the Welsh, as people have said, they just have a reputation for doing it and people notice. Other people, such as doctors and nurses (and teachers), also use language to form an exclusive group which keeps away outsiders, but they do it by using a professional register (the use of what is really just technical jargon) rather than a different language. People do it with regional speech, kids do it with slang, the list goes on. Sadly normal.

[Just Katie]

OMG I have just realised that I do it too.  My accent as I have said before is like CZJ.  However if I want to talk about someone who is not local, we talk in a Llanelli accent.  I think and English person has more chance of understanding manderin.

[Russethouse]

Lots of things have their own language, I can understand quite a bit of French when I am discussing pottery because I know what to expect, even at auctions I am not totally lost because I am familiar with the routine and terms.

The family history 'language ' seems straightforward but I noticed that my neighbours , novice gardeners, looked totally confused when I mentioned ericacious(shame I can't spell it !) compost and ph after their first purchases were azaleas............

[Davies]

I worked for some time in a Japanese organisation and the use of the Japanese language was like a security measure.

They will make the right nods of approval if you start to learn the language but the moment they think you are able

to pick up on a conversation, the shutters go up, it's almost as it they fear their screen of secrecy has been broken.

 

 I have a favourite Welsh moment but to be honest, it could have happened anywhere;

Me; (entering the village shop) "Do you happen to know the tractor driver who was just in here?"

Shopkeeper and customers: (shaking heads in unison) "No"

Me; "Oh pity, he dropped his wallet before driving off and I'd like to get it back to him"

Shopkeeper; (without even a pause) "Oh, that'll be Mr (whoever) up at the farm, I'll telephone him"

[Just Katie]

That sounds like rural life to me.

[JohnM]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]It isn't confined to the Welsh, as people have said, they just have a reputation for doing it and people notice. Other people, such as doctors and nurses (and teachers), also use language to form an exclusive group which keeps away outsiders, but they do it by using a professional register (the use of what is really just technical jargon) rather than a different language. People do it with regional speech, kids do it with slang, the list goes on. Sadly normal.
[/quote]

That's very true. I started my working life as a dispensing optician and on my first day my father told me that I was entering a profession that used complicated words just to confuse the "patient". I vowed that I wasn't going to and tried to always explain things in language the patient would undestand. I'm not sure that I always succeeded though!  actually, I know I didn't. When nice people asked what hard contact lenses were made of, I said "Optical grade perspex" when people who needed taking down a peg or two asked, I said "Polymethylmethacrylate" (Grief, that's sad, I've not used that words for 21 years and still remember it... but probably not the spelling!).

P.S I put "patient" in quotes because in 1976 you were still patients, we were not under pressure to sell you a gold fashion frame if you didn't need it! Not the same in '85 when I gave it up.

 

[Coco]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]
And Coco - what do you know, or think you know about my accent and how it grates (or doesn't) on other people? How rude can you be without speaking Welsh?
[/quote]

I don't think I did say I knew anything about your accent Dick, I said that possibly you had the kind of accent that other people had suggested earlier on in the thread "grated", ie being a middle class SE accent.  You have spent most of your life in the Carshalton area haven't you?  So therefore it is fair to guess that you may have a SE accent.  I did say nothing personal, so please don't take offence quite so easily [:P]

[Coco]

Actually, leaving the Welsh alone for a bit and going back to the subject of this thread - but also about people speaking in a language others can't understand, I frequently squirm when we have both English and French staying at our B&B and they meet up over breakfast.  Or rather they DON'T.  The French tend to be up first and we pass the usual pleasantries before they get stuck in to breakfast.  Then the Brits appear and it is as if the French are invisible; the Britis say good morning to us, ignore the French, continue to either tell us about their meal in the local restaurant last night, ask if we've heard the weather report, tell us where they're going today, but never so much as an acknowledgement to the French guests, even though they have nodded and smiled and said Bonjour.  OK, so they chose an English-speaking B&B because they can't speak French but nonetheless, they are in FRANCE and the least they could do, just to be civil is to nod back and say bonjour, even if that is as far as the conversation goes.  To totally blank the other people at the same breakfast table is just soooo rude [:@]

[Bassman]

[quote user="St Amour"]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]
And Coco - what do you know, or think you know about my accent and how it grates (or doesn't) on other people? How rude can you be without speaking Welsh?
[/quote]

I don't think I did say I knew anything about your accent Dick, I said that possibly you had the kind of accent that other people had suggested earlier on in the thread "grated", ie being a middle class SE accent.  You have spent most of your life in the Carshalton area haven't you?  So therefore it is fair to guess that you may have a SE accent.  I did say nothing personal, so please don't take offence quite so easily [:P]

[/quote]

 

Nah a mate of mine that lives in Carshalton is a teacher and he doesn't talk plummy [;-)] mind you he's Swiss [:D] I live near Weybridge have done for 29 years and I don't have a middle class SE accent cos' I come from the NE originally[:-))] TBH I don't know where the people with gratey middle class SE accents actually come from these days .... probably the Cotswolds [;-)] .Not that you can or should really judge people by their accents anyway[;-)]

 

 We ended up sat on the next table to some in the ferry restaurant the other week ( oh their faces when the manager? showed me to the table and said " your usual table sir" [:D]) they were being loud and annoying and the French guy that sat with us kept pulling faces and said " what awful people" mind they were sitting at his usual table LOL

 

Actually it's strange how we always seem to get the same table on the Bretagne [8-)] about four times in a row now[:)]

[Dick Smith]

Coco - I love the idea that I shouldn't take offence if you stereotype me in to the worst kind of Englishman abroad! So you make a very rude statement about me, and it is my fault if I get offended? You are incredible.

 

Might I suggest that instead of lecturing me on how I should ignore your rudeness you think about what you write?

[tmto]

I fail to see why it's rude for Welsh people to speak Welsh in Wales, regardless of whose presence they are in.

[SaligoBay]

I think it's the intention that's the problem, tmto.

If it's done to exclude, it's rude.

[Gluestick]

Well, off topic here, I'm afraid, but since much of this thread has been devoted to debate about rude Welsh people, I shall take poetic license![;-)]

Whenever I was abroad, I used to learn a few essential words in the language, as I feel it does help to smooth the way: as does asking hotel staff to assist you with pronounciation.

Many years ago in Southern Spain, I was still learning Spanish and tried to use it as often as possible, mainly with much help and understanding from the locals.

One elderly man (A Northern Spaniard, probably a Basque I suspect) ran the local Tabac, newsagents etc. Now, I knew that he spoke perfect English: when he wanted to. he could be charming to British ladies (typical Spaniard![kiss]), but enjoyed selective bouts of non comprende Senor!

 So, I set him up! My chum and I wandered into the shop one day, after he had been particularly rude the previous afternoon, when I had wished him, Buenos tardes, Senor!

As we waited to be served, I turned to my chum and said, "Don't worry about him, the  senile old Spanish git, apart from being deaf and stupid, he can't speak a word of English!"

After this he changed, considerably![:P]

Not my normal level of etiquette, I must say.......................

 

[Coco]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]

Coco - I love the idea that I shouldn't take offence if you stereotype me in to the worst kind of Englishman abroad! So you make a very rude statement about me, and it is my fault if I get offended? You are incredible.

Might I suggest that instead of lecturing me on how I should ignore your rudeness you think about what you write?

[/quote]

Oh Dick do grow up.  What I said was:

"I believe Dick that you come from Carshalton (SE England) so maybe you have the kind of accent (nothing personal here) that some people have said grates on other Brits abroad. "

Please note the use of the word MAYBE and the fact that I have said that the SE accent is something that some OTHER PEOPLE on this thread have said grates on other Brits abroad.  I said nothing about that making you the worst type of Englishman abroad (a little sensitive today are we?) I too come from the SE so perhaps my accent grates on people but I can live with that, we can't all like or be liked by everyone.  But if you do want to take it so personally then go ahead, that's your problem, not mine.  I did not stereotype you, I was not being rude, I just said that MAYBE that is what caused the Welsh to speak in Welsh.

Oh and Dick  - I love the idea that I shouldn't be rude to you but we can have a whole thread slagging off the Welsh for speaking in their native tongue.

[Dick Smith]

Coco - why are you so rude? Why do you think manners don't apply to you? This is not my thread, I made one post about the Welsh and another on the use of language to exclude and, probably, a couple of silly remarks, and then you steam in out of the blue and say that, because of where you believe I now live, I probably have an offensive accent, and then when I object you pooh-pooh me, and then you tell me to grow up. Pretty rich.

I think the words you were choking over were 'sorry if I offended you'. Not that I ever expect to see them from you.

[Coco]

Oh Dickey lighten up!!   I said right at the beginning that no offence was meant and it isn't but you really do seem to want to make a big deal out of it.  Please, just let it drop[:P][:P] 

[Dick Smith]

OK - you make insulting posts and then you decide that anyone offended 'didn't see the joke' and then you decide when the conversation stops.

You are priceless.

[Coco]

Yawn, yawn, yawn, that SE accent is beginning to grate Dickie, there was no joke to get, just no offence intended ..................Bye, bye [kiss]

[Dick Smith]

Oh you charmer, you. I hope that other people reading this see you for what you are.

[Debra]

I'm just trying to figure out if St Amour is Coco and if so when did this happen or are there two cocos or what??  Phew - I must be on a slow day!

[Catalpa]

A short time ago in a thread far far away...

 

...I am sure DickSmith confided his dreams of being a moderator? [:-))]

[Dick Smith]

How, Catalpa, is this of my making? And what, if anything, has it got to do with anything else?

[Coco]

Hi Debra

Yes I'm Coco.  I think it was when some new software was loaded a while ago that I got logged out, forgot my old password for logging in and had also changed my email so admin couldn't send me a reminder of my password so I had to take on a new username and one of my favourite wines seemed quite appropriate [:-))]