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Re: Why Did You Relocate to France?


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There's always been "Bull" in the UK about the UK, TU: it's mainly spread by politicans, their so-called Spin Doctors and media sources with particular political agendas and axes to grind![Www]

Anyone can write a book: the problem, currently, is finding an agent and then a publisher: unless you are Wayne Roony of course, then suddenly overnight, you are magically transformed from monosyllabic grunts into a new wave Shakespeare. Ummmm...........

Well, in this case, why not start a new thread entitled "Urban Myths About France" or similar?

Of course, to an extent, I must agree, that with all fresh fields, Rose Coloured Specs Syndrome comes into play, however (the big however![:D]), I am presently in the happy situation of researching the fact and facets about France which would impact on me, if and when I decide to relocate.

Having spent nearly 30 professional years, in which analysis of political economics, micro and macro economies, fiscal realities, overseas business investment et al, have been significant in earning my daily bread, I believe that I enjoy something of a head start. I am most kindly aided in my researches, by some good French friends and in particular, an English friend who has lived and worked in France for many years and is now retired, but is still very much politically active, is intellectually a polymath and a writer, too.

I have to agree, also, that quite obviously, France (as with all G7 states, incidentally) has problems with fiscal balance. One main causal factor is accepted as ever-increasing longevity creating increasing fiscal drain on healthcare and social security costs. Short of operating a closet policy of fiscal euthanasia (as is happening in the UK with geriatric medicine), all modern industrialised states face identical problems: which are set to worsen as people live longer.

I would posit, however, that the rate of decline of quality and standards in the French health system will be far slower than the NHS. One only has to compare, for example, the present patient to Qualified staff ratios.

Go on! Take the bull (sorry freudian slip?[;-)]) by the horns. Debunk these urban myths!

 

 

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Why would anyone chose to relocate to France?

I would like to argue that one of the reasons should be that one is a

Francophile, otherwise (if you allow me the analogy) the body will

eventually reject the transplanted organ or vice-versa.

I think foreigners who've moved to France and are not, at the start

francophiles, are eventually bound to become alienated and whingers.

This is, of course, also true of Frenchmen moving to America, England,

etc. You must already know and love the local culture, warts and all,

if you are to build a reasonably successful new life.

That includes speaking the language, and more, sharing at least some

cultural references in your hobbies; e.g. if you're into comics as I

am, and you have fond memories of the Beano and 2000 AD, it would

behoove you to have read some Tintin, Asterix, Lanfeust or Titeuf.

I confess to being surprised by foreigners who move to a country with

little or no knowledge of the local language and the culture and expect

to live undisturbed.

(This may be nuanced for nationalities with large migrant communities

already present in the host country, such as Chinese, Hispanics in

America, Turks in Germany, etc. though even then, I think speaking the

language makes things immeasurably easier.)

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Gluestick - if the archives went back far enough I think you would find

that TeamedUp has been trying to debunk urban myths  for about 6

years. The newbies don't like it but many eventually find that she was

right. She also gives good practical advice. Personally I never wore

rose coloured spectacles but they are becoming slightly rosier the

longer I am here, and I will be sorry to leave. But you can't have it

all, we are getting older and I miss the family. Pat.

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Thanks for that Patf.

I did carry out a quick search: unfortunately, as you say, the archives stop at 2003.

Therefore perhaps a dedicated thread acting as the collected wisdom of TU, debunking Urban Myths, would be a good idea.

I'm sure that many others would join in, too.

 

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

Believe me the french health service is not what it was and as the black hole grows it can but get worse, there simply isn't the money to improve at the moment.

[/quote]

Typical - run the system into the ground and then bu***r off leaving the rest of us to bail it out. [:D]

John

not

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Very simply, we came here to live for a place in the countryside with land, a better growing climate and better summers. I will admit that at that time I had certain illusions about French culture, they went a long time ago when I saw through the pantomime, I'm largely with TU on these myths, although some people seem to convince themselves that these myths are real. There's a lot about the UK that's good or excellent, perhaps far more than in France.

Chris

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Typical - run the system into the ground and then bu***r off leaving the rest of us to bail it out. 

John

not

 

 

[:D] I am pleased to say that we really haven't used the french health service that much. And will have paid more in than we have got out, in fact we have probably paid more in to most things, than we have got out. I have no problem with that, we are and always have been better off than a lot of other folks.

When we leave though, if it will cheer you, we will still have to pay into the french health service and will have no usual rights what so ever. When we are back in France we will have to use our EHIC strictly for emergency treatment, just like any other holiday maker and yet the Secu will be taking money each and every month.

 

 

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And of course, when you return to the UK, unless you have taken French citizenship, you will have to pay for your health treatment if you have been out of the country for more than six months................. in theory.[:)]
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And of course, when you return to the UK, unless you have taken French citizenship, you will have to pay for your health treatment if you have been out of the country for more than six months................. in theory

 

A couple of things here:-

As french residents, nothing to do with citizenship, if we are holidaying in the UK we could be asked to pay for health care under certain circumstances, but we have never been asked to. And then our EHIC's would cover anyway for emergency treatment. We have had french issued E111's and subsequently EHIC's when holidaying in the UK for several years now.

Once we are resident in the UK, then we just register like everyone else and pay or don't pay like everyone else, ie prescription costs, dentists etc. We will only pay towards our UK healthcare costs if we earn in the UK and it  is likely that we will be employed, so we will be paying in two countries then and only having full rights in one of them.

 

I have phoned everyone, Ministry of Health and contacted Newcastle about this and the CPAM in France too. I know that we cannot avoid paying twice if we work in the UK.

 

 

Bit worried about your research though, something as basic as this seems to be information you gleaned from say the Daily Mail rather than the proper authorities. Please don't trust the telly or the media in general.

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Rarely read newspapers, TU and the Daily Wail (or Daily Wannabee Middle England Female) is the last thing I would wrap my dirty shoes in!

Statement came from Government: the claim was that migrants were costing the UK government far too much![:-))] and in future, despite how many years of payments in NIC, after six months absence, visiting/returning ExPats would have to pay!

Busy at present (Thermal Fuses: you don't want to know!) will try and track down statement and source when I have a mo.

 

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Still trying to source a definitive statement from various Government websites, TU.

Initiative commenced 2003: modified 2004 in principle. I will keep on searching when I have spare time.

It seems far from clear what actually can transpire when ExPats return after more than six months (and in some cases three months) time abroad. Can even be taken as necessary for >nine months fresh residence to qualify!

Make me wish I had decided on law instead!

http://www.paramedic.org.uk/news_archive/2004/01/News_Item.2004-01-06.0009/view

http://www.andalucia.com/news/cdsn/2003-08-20.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2004/01/06/expaty.xml

 

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As I said, I simply phoned the Ministry and Newcastle about this. I don't trust newspaper reports about something so important. And as I said, once one is resident somewhere else then ofcourse one should be in that system, so just visiting the UK would mean that one had no more entitlement than any other holiday maker. Moving back to become permanent residents  is quite different and one has to contact Newcastle and hand in the E form provided by in this case the french authorities and then one is in the UK system.

I am not saying that the laws may not change in the future but that is the way the system is now. I have checked in the past and actually checked a few weeks ago, both sides of the channel. I am ofcourse only talking about France/UK. I have never asked about such moves between other countries.

Healthcare apart, if anyone thinks that they can turn up broke in the UK after leaving for over six months, then they will find that they have no automatic entitlement to financial aid from the state. They would have to fight to get a bean.  And if they have property in another country it is unlikely that they will get anything at all.

 

EDIT  I have read such articles in the past  and then done some digging my self. And there has been a problem to address in   that people were leaving the UK and then just going back to the UK when it suited and 'using' the system willy nilly. And the NHS may be more or less free, but it is only 'free' for residents and these people are no longer. They would have holiday cover with the now EHIC. When moving back to become full time residents, if they do it properly there should be no problem at all and they should just be able to join the system without any problems. 

 

 

2nd edit

 

We have had to use the health service when holidaying in the UK for emergency things. We have always filled in forms to say that we were holidaying and have never been charged or had any problems that we were non UK residents.

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I think in practical terms it is unlikely that should TU need the doctor or hospital during the first months of her return, the topic wouldn't arise.

I recently had a mishap that involved an ambulance, hospital, several check ups, operation etc and although I was asked my address I was certainly not asked how long I had lived there. OK the ambulance picked me up from my home, but could have been a visitor, no one said 'Is this your house'?

BTW we are lucky in the area I live to have a very good out of GP hours service, but I do think NHS performance is patchy at best. OTOH we have had people post here that have not found the French health service quite so wonderful too.

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Income will be generated in France and the french authorities will have it no other way than we have to pay.

 

[:)] Believe me I have tried to find a way of not having to do this, as we would far rather pay up in the UK as we will be living there, but the french authorities are having none of it at all and have been quite firm about the fact that we lose all 'droits' in France too.

Tis a mad mad mad mad world!

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[quote user="Most Holy"]Why would anyone chose to relocate to France?

I would like to argue that one of the reasons should be that one is a Francophile, otherwise (if you allow me the analogy) the body will eventually reject the transplanted organ or vice-versa.

I think foreigners who've moved to France and are not, at the start francophiles, are eventually bound to become alienated and whingers. This is, of course, also true of Frenchmen moving to America, England, etc. You must already know and love the local culture, warts and all, if you are to build a reasonably successful new life.

That includes speaking the language, and more, sharing at least some cultural references in your hobbies; e.g. if you're into comics as I am, and you have fond memories of the Beano and 2000 AD, it would behoove you to have read some Tintin, Asterix, Lanfeust or Titeuf.

I confess to being surprised by foreigners who move to a country with little or no knowledge of the local language and the culture and expect to live undisturbed.

(This may be nuanced for nationalities with large migrant communities already present in the host country, such as Chinese, Hispanics in America, Turks in Germany, etc. though even then, I think speaking the language makes things immeasurably easier.)


[/quote]

Well this to me says it in a nutshell.  We had always wanted to live in France, I spoke reasonable French and my husband spoke holiay French. 

I wouldn't have considered moving here if we couldn't speak  at least some French

I wouldn't have considered moving here if we didn't know the country reasonably well

I certainly wouldn't have considered moving here if all I knew of France was from "A Place in the Sun"  but believe me, having run a B&B for the last 4 years with many, many hoiuse-hunters staying I have been absolutely flabbargasted at the amount who are on a first visit to France, who have not a word of French and who think that they will be able to survive without an income because they are selling a house in the UK for say £200,000 and buying one here for £100,000.  Having come here 4 years ago with quite a nice little "cushion" I know that even running a business which is "almost" completely supporting us NOW, that cushion rapidly deflated during the first couple of years.

If you don't have at least a little knowledge of the country you are moving to (and a love for it other than just having spent a couple of "sunny" fortnights there by the pool) then you are rapidly going to become disllusioned by it.  Nowhere is perfect but to me the UK (where we lived) is less perfect than the part of France that we now live in.  I still miss things (mostly pubs and curry houses) but still the pros outweigh the cons.

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We came for an adventure - to do something different whilst we still could.  We were not running away - had a perfectly nice life in the UK - but wanted to give something else a try.  Chose France because I spoke French and we knew the area.

Would I do it again?  Probably not if I knew what I know now - so in fact I'm glad we didn't know.  I do not regret having come and even the things which I don't like are interesting.  I don't think any amount of preparation can let you know how things really are.  We didn't have the internet at home in UK so didn't have too much of other folks experiences but we did try to find out as much as we could nad make realistic financial plans.

FOR

We renovated our house quickly and within budget (we had a good well planned budget).  If we sold we till be able to purchase elsewhere including UK.

We have been accepted and welcomed locally and lots of participation in village life. 

Got the B & B up and running successfully, enjoy doing it and we live in beautiful house we could not otherwise afford

My husband has learnt to speak French and has a full time job re-training for another skill.  This has given us both us a big confidence boost.  Previously he had been in the same trade all his working life so being able to make a change - and in a foreign language - makes us feel we can move on again if we want too.

We are making our living albeit not a great one and don't have any debts.

AGAINST

The mind numbing difficulty or French administration.  Blocking of all entrepreneurial spirit.  Life often seems like one up hill battle against a sea of paperwork.  Seems like most of the time the odds are stacked against anyone who wants to work.

Miss my friends terribly - as I didn't live near a major airport in UK is not easy or cheap for people to visit often.  Everyone here is very friendly, but the cultural differences make having real friendships difficult.  I'm afraid I don't count elderly French peasant saying 'Bonjour' every day as a friend as lots of my English acquaintances seem to do.  Nice chap and all that, but we have little in common.  People are nice to me and I do try to understand the culture but that is not very relaxing.  Strangely I don't miss my family as much even though I'm fond of them,  as I didn't live near them in the UK so was used to only telephone contact and sporadic visits.

Miss diversity of culture of UK.  Foreign restaurants - even the village I lived in in Cornwall had a Chinese takeaway!

Lack of activities/eduactional opportunities for working folk.  No evening classes - most activities organised for pensioners or schoolchildren.

Don't actually like struggling for money.  In the UK we were not wealthy but managed OK (although we did of course have mortgage, car loan etc which we don't have here) BUT we could always earn a bit of extra money legally if we wanted too.  Here, it seems how ever hard you work it makes little difference and legal extra part-time work is simply not available.  I don't want to work on the black - not because I'm so honest, but I'm too cowardly[:(] - but I understand why people do

CONCLUSION

Glad we did it - but like St Amour am amazed at the number of people who launch themselves across the Channel without thought or resources.  We will probably not stay here forever, but the move will mostly have been of interesting and positive experiences and we will not have lost out too drastically financially if we decide to return to UK or move on elsewhere.  One thing which people might find interesting is that I don't always feel that speaking the language fluently helps me.  The reason for this is that I DO understand what people say and frankly understanding the messy politics of the country, realising how poor a lot of my French friends are and knowing how miserable a lot of people are is not always good and certainly doesn't help towards happiness.  I've noticed that the French speakers on this site seem to often have a  different perspective to the others and certainly find that a lot of the other English folk I meet live in an unreal world, not realising how things are.  Do they really believe - as one person said recently - that it is 'quaint' that people in rural areas in live poverty without proper sanitary arrnagments.  Can't see anything 'quaint' about that myself - just sad for me.

Maggi

 

 

 

 

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I knew that we would have cover from the day we officially move back. French authorities will issue are E form and will send that in to the health service in the UK.

 

Re holiday makers, the EHIC's will work in the UK too and anyone holding one should have the same emergency cover as a resident and in certain circumstances continuing treatment, diabetics come to mind. So as long as anyone moving to France gets into the french system and asks for an EHIC then they will be covered.

 

Who this 'pay up rule' could well affect are the 'can't be bothereds', 'not us, surelys', 'I'm british, I 've paid in for years' brigades. If they end up in a mess because they haven't done things properly then what can I say, they will have to pay up and it will be their own fault and no one else's.

This is nothing I have ever worried about as we have always been in the french system and always had the necessary E forms now EHIC's when we go back.

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