Drinking culture

[Miki]

Well I find it incredible that here we are discussng this and this

lunchtime while sitting at a little bar while Tina did what she is

pretty good at, the 90 minute crawl around the supermarket., I spotted the local rag and there blazonned across the front page was the word Delinquence dans nos communes.

I went and bought it and it was stating that the Maires of all

comunes with over 1000 inhabitants were to be a part of a report on how

their communes were suffering from "acts of delinquency".

It will be a storm in a teacup for the moment but sadly, one day it may

well will need more than the Maires to sort it all out, fingers crossed

we might see a reversal, as unbelievably, we have had in the historic

past !

[DZ]

That's an attitude that we should all have, Dick.  But people are generally scared because more and more often these days it ends really badly (take, for instance, the 19-year-old student stabbed to death on the train earlier this week when trying to intervene in a domestic dispute).  Carrying knives has become a proper epidemic in the UK, it seems.  And you ARE a brave man.

Anna

[Dick Smith]

No, not brave at all. Stupid, possibly. But I've had to deal with a lot of fights at school, and most are pretty harmless. And you never close in until you are sure. I wouldn't get involved unless I had room to manouevre.

[Pip]

 In other words, the main public service TV broadcaster, BBC, is in thrall to big business.  (Gluestick)

But they still turn out some gems too  [;-)][:D]

[Just Katie]

Dick is not brave for doing what he did.  Or stupid.  Just human.  Not many about now.  Having the gift of the gab and a gentle art of persuasion in these situations help. 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="KathyC"]When you get to a certain age, you often look around you and it all seems to be going to the dogs. T'was ever thus; you can read similar comments made about society, going back to the ancient Greeks. I think part of the appeal of moving abroad when you're older is that you become less conscious of it happening, partly because of the language but also because you didn't know the country that well before. Older French people will be aware of things going downhill, but for an incomer, at least it's not the world that you know and love that is collapsing before your eyes. (NB.Must remember to watch Grumpy Old Men/Women tonight.)[/quote]

Obviously we must all accept that with increasing age, Rose Coloured Glasses Syndrome comes into play, Kathy. No, Summers in our schooldays were not in reality cloudless blues skies and warmth from sunrise until sunset. Personally, I believe that this is a part of our value-set. We all try and apply the archaic value-set we have become used to, to comtemporaneous events, which is always an error.

However, I track the decline in social behaviour simply by things like the way kids behave and respond to their parents, how they besport themselves in mixed age company, how they behave in the street, how they stand and walk and so on.

My time as a county council co-opted school governor (large secondary) was a sobering experience, a few years ago.

In particular I track the events in my local town's "Club" area every Friday and Saturday night. Club in this sense seems to mean beating one another over the head with heavy blunt objects when drunk!

It is a few years ago since I stayed in Ventnor (about 14), but driving around the whole island, it was definitely in its own timewarp then: circa mid 1950s.

My most striking recent experience was in Iceland on business, a few years ago. The comparison was immense. My colleague and I drove to Heathrow in her car and when we returned, she went somewhere else and I came back by train. In fact I wrote a comparison for a local paper on that subject. The massive social, economic, structure and cultural differences between Iceland and the UK: and in particular, my train journey through London (the economic centre of the World: if you believe the PR guff, which I don't!) and home.

Many thanks for your kind comments, davieszak.

Pip: I agree, of course. However sadly, to me, the dross, these days far outweighs the odd good stuff.

Personally, I feel that BBC TV went to the dogs during and after the era of Janet Street Porter and her focus on "Yoof" TV. As a public service broadcaster, BBC has a duty to promote two things: integrity in factual news reporting (and that in itself is a laugh, post the Andrew Gilligan affair, as BBC is now a sort of apologist and PR organ for Blair and his cronies, simply because the slavering wimps at the top didn't have the guts to face up to government and put their sinecures on the line!) and quality in culture. To me quality in culture is not following the arguments of Melvin Bragg and trying to promote rap as culture, yes it's street culture, perhaps, but then so is graffiti!

Perhaps Lord Bragg can practice as he preaches and encourage graffiti artists to "decorate" his house.

I believe that institutions such as the BBC ought to be trying to raise people's vision and potential achievements by example and inspiration, rather than pandering to the lowest common denominator, or if you like, dumbing down. Glorifying the scattological exploits of Tracy Eman doesn't hack it for me, I'm afraid.

 

[Miki]

[quote] Having the gift of the gab and a gentle art of persuasion in these situations help [/quote]

Didn't do me any harm !!

Mind you, the old tonic stay prests and chrome lamps on the scooter were a bit of a persuader at times [;-)]

[DZ]

[quote user="KatieKopyKat"]Dick is not brave for doing what he did.  Or stupid.  Just human.  Not many about now.  Having the gift of the gab and a gentle art of persuasion in these situations help. [/quote]

KKK, I couldn't agree more.  I am raising a glass to Dick's humanity then (it's only an aperitif before dinner, not start of a Friday binge, I hasten to add)!

Gluestick: I am very keen to know about the situation in Iceland.  Have you got a link to the article you wrote?  Do you think it is so different because the country is very remote?  Or perhaps all Scandinavian societies are like that?

[Pip]

I agree with you in part Gluestick but, as you know, I'm pretty biased for personal reasons.  I have to fight that particular corner !

[Hoddy]

"Would that be Le Divan D a g o, with the waiter with the nicely waxed tash ?"

Careful what you say Cat 46 - I think I may be in love with him.

Hoddy

 

[Gluestick]

Thanks, Pip: and yes I know.

Davieszak:

Iceland is a very interesting place for a number of reasons. Only a few years ago, its GDP comprised circa 90% fishing. Now it is less than 10% and reducing all the time.

Education right up to doctoral level is completely free: thus it is no surprise that they are a very highly educated race. Healthcare is first rate and totally free, too.

Like many Scandanavian and Nordic countries, they did have a problem with drinking, particularly in the dark months of the Winter. This was addressed by a process of public education. Drink driving is now very rare and their laws are completely intolerant of it. The drink-drive limit is zero. Wine costs circa £7-9 per glass in hotels and bars.

Most people speak excellent English: and many other European languages too.

The standard of living is on par with Switzerland. They have no natural energy resources, other than geothermal, which has been very well applied. Weird when I first showered, however! I thought that the drains were dodgy: which would have been strange, as it was a very new and very splendid hotel. It was in fact the hydrogen sulphide in the hot water. They pipe the water directly up from the geysers.

All gas and petrol, derv and aircraft fuel has to be imported. They have no wood, as they chopped up the trees years ago for building and fuel, thus they import costs are pretty high.

The place is spotlessly clean; no litter and no graffiti. Reykjavik airport was very busy and a wonderful place, in terms of design and cleanlyness; as were the loos.

These days, the economy focuses on high technology, finance and banking, amongst others. Interestingly, they are very keen to encourage inwards migration from suitably qualified younger people.

Have PMd you re article.

 

 

[Dave]

Cat46...yes, that's the one. We were sitting oustide there one evening last summer and a young lad stepped into the slip road (looking a bit unsteady) to wave farewell to some girls, at that moment a car turned into the slip road and tooted him, we thought "oh dear" but the young guy just turned and waved happily and stepped back onto the pavement...miracle. but as has been said things are obviously changing, seem to be seeing more of the uniform baseball and baggies 'uniform' around town so 'the times, they are a changing'[:)]

[Richard-R]

The young drink,fall downa and vomit. It's alaways been the same. All a part of growing up. Same with trying drugs. Take a chill pill old folk. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID.

[Rosebud]

The place is spotlessly clean; no litter and no graffiti. Reykjavik airport was very busy and a wonderful place, in terms of design and cleanlyness; as were the loos.

 

Same can be said of our adopted home, which is Switzerland.  Having lived in the UK, Germany, Switzerland and now France, we have ultimately chosen Switzerland as the place we wish for our children to grow up.

I remember one of my first walks in Switzerland, along the Lake of Lucerne.  I approached a groups of young teenagers, all dressed in black, smoking, music playing.  Having just moved from Berlin I was nervous of this croud of youngsters.  As I approached I saw them all drinking Fanta and Sprite, and smiling and greeting me as I passed.  It was so refreshing!!

Tha'ts not to say they don't have their own problems though.  The decline is pretty universal.

 

Rosebud [:)]  ( who likes the odd pint of Guiness or bottle of decent red [;-)])

 

 

[KathyC]

[quote user="Richard-R"]The young drink,fall downa and vomit. It's alaways been the same. All a part of growing up. Same with trying drugs. Take a chill pill old folk. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID.[/quote]

No it hasn't. Young people have generally experimented with alcohol (and drugs) and have sometimes been the worst for it. They have not always seen getting plastered as the most fun thing they can do; certainly not on a regular basis . They have not always done it at such a young age, so frequently or so aggressively. It might surprise you to learn that for many of us, being able to get drunk but not show it was a source of pride. (It was also a necessity, our parents would have killed us if they had known.)

[Gluestick]

Absolutely right, Kathy.

Drinking moderately for my group was a part of social intercourse; not an objective in itself.

Sure, we all once or twice became hammered when young, but 99.999% learned various lessons from this.

I personally believe now, that underlying personality traits, where in reality people are basically unstable, emotionally and mentally, emerge once they have, as the Irish put it so well,"Drink taken."

Of course, there were violent people when I was young: but they were very much a microscopic minority: and avoided by most. As were the places they haunted. "Nice" people didn't go there.

The worrying reality today, in the UK, is how so many otherwise respectable town centres have been turned into civilian no-go zones after certain hours and days: and how mindless violence and social disorder has become almost accepted as the norm.

 

 

[Miki]

[quote user="Richard-R"]The young drink,fall downa and vomit. It's

alaways been the same. All a part of growing up. Same with trying

drugs. Take a chill pill old folk. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID.[/quote]

I sure did and so did  many of my friends, girls and boys.  I

went to many nice places, as well as dodgy places, drove down the

seaside for scuffles, we took drugs and when we were too drunk we puked

in private, if we had the time to get there !

We carried no guns and knives (one rather big difference) although

knives were about, they were not common. When we went to town to drink,

we did but I don't remember the whole town centre throwing up !! No,

evolution barely ever means something for the better and this is no

different. As I said, I hope and there is no reason it won't, turn for

the better in the future.

[Dave]

[quote user="Richard-R"]The young drink,fall downa and vomit. It's alaways been the same. All a part of growing up. Same with trying drugs. Take a chill pill old folk. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID.[/quote]

Yeah...did all that, the difference was I was 15/16 at the time not mid/late 20's, by the time I was 17 I was in the Army not banging a gong here), still can manage to get drunk and fall down but I don't look for the nearest person to beat senseless, "get a life" I have had a life, and still do, I know young people reaching their 30's who have never been futher than their local pub/club or Southend Costa...[:D]

[DZ]

Interesting article in today's "Guardian" : "Street cred, money and fear - the forces driving knife culture".  Not about drinking, I know, but interesting nevertheless.

www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article

 

[Dick Smith]

Should be

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1789624,00.html

[Gluestick]

When I was 16, flick knives were banned: no shop could sell them and anyone caught carrying one was immediately liable for a prison sentence.

Since that time (so long ago), various acts have been passed endeavouring to dis-persaude people from carrying concealed weapons.

Once again, however, the core problem is that police and jurisprudence have not bothered to implement extant law; now that the problem has escalated, authority realises they have do actually do something: sadly I fear, as many UK streets have now become anarchic, solving this problem is nigh on impossible.

Imprison offenders: where? What about the costs? What about the liberal bleeding hearts and the do-gooders? What about the Human Rights Act? And so on....................ad infinitum.

 

 

[Renaud]

I am new to this thread and just would like to say that anything I would like to have said, has been said by Gluestick. (I liked Cathy's contribution too).

My father was brought up by his French mother. Children were always permitted to have small amounts of alchol and grew-up to drink in a moderate way. He extended some of the same tolerance to me, so I hope that I too grew to be a moderate drinker - my daughters however are both tetotalers becauce "they don't to be like me"...