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Dismal quality of real estate listings - agents, lift your game!


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Looking at various immobliers web sites, mostly those either specifically aimed at the UK buyer (or those English speaking) or at least that have acknowledged our existence as a potential market (the 'We speak English' sign or flag on the web site), I am amazed at the poor quality of the listings. I'm looking from Australia and it's far from a simple matter of popping over the channel for a long weekend to look at a potential purchase.

Why, given the pretty hefty fees agents make, or even if only(!) to actually sell the properties, don't they put more effort into making the listings informative (decent photo's, floor plans, even a description!). When I compare them to Australian real estate listings they are, quite frankly, pathetic. It's like they don't really want to sell them.

The average one has a few poor quality, badly lit, distorted in proportion, poorly angled shots, most likely from the agents phone, or even the sellers. They rarely give much more than a cursory idea of what's there. Even one of the big players, whose magazine had an article about 'their star photographer' this month, is guilty of this. Most listings have rubbish photo's.

So my plea to agents (or sellers) is - come on! Put some effort into it. Lots of photo's, decent quality. Sellers, clean up! Get your household stuff out of the pictures. The only things visible should be to give an idea of how to use the space, or to give scale. The 360 degree setups are very good. A proper dimensioned floor plan is a must, with a North arrow (so we can tell where the sun will be).

Here they use drones, videos, even professional photographers & lighting in the big markets, photo boards outside the house, all kinds of tricks, but the seller pays up front for it, however it does make sales. I've read this is not allowed in France (tres ridiculous, no?). Surely the minimum standard can be lifted so that, if you're looking to sell to those outside your phone code area, those buyers have some information to filter through the thousands of places available?
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Twas ever thus. And when you get here, there are rarely any agents boards outside properties. Oh, and the agents generally won't even tell you the exact location of a property on their books because they're too afraid they might lose their commission by a buyer popping round to see the seller and cutting them out of the deal.

They're catering predominantly to a local market. I'm not sure a French agent would, in their wildest dreams, ever consider the likelihood of a buyer coming from so far afield that they'd want to actually know enough information to make a visit worthwhile.

The nearest most get to acknowledging foreign buyers is having a 2 tier price system, where their "English speaking" listings are priced higher.
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I think you will find that in 'real France' or 'mainstream France' Betty (LOL) the houses are advertised well. Well, they are not so bad.

It is only when you get into the backwaters that things get a bit iffy.

A year or so back I was looking at a house on 'Le Bon Coin' and they had taken a photo of the bedroom. What they did not realise when taking the photo of the bedroom was that on the wall in the background was the sellers favourite porn photos. LOL. I kid you not. Everything was there to be seen. All nicely sellotaped to the wall.

Anyway yes,...hmmmm... there are good estate agents in France.

Usually the houses presented badly are ones that you really don't want to buy. Or, they have to be visited to really get an idea.
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Years ago when we were looking, I recall photos of a kitchen with half the doors to the units left partly open, and a selection of carrier bags and dirty tea towels hanging from the handles, and a photo of a coffee table. Nothing else, just the coffee table, with photos of the family. Bizarre.

And even the external shots of beautiful-looking houses won't tell you there's a wind farm or power plant 100 metres away. Especially if the actual location is such a closely guarded secret.

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When we sold last year the immo insisted on taking his own photos

and wouldn't use any I had taken. Not impressed, but he did sell the

place, at a large loss to us [:'(] The description was minimal as

compaired to here in England. But then again what do you expect when

they have cut their slice right down to around 6% [:-))] In fact ours took a hit on his cut and only made about 15,000€ the sale!

As

for the photos on some of the sites? Just what does the corner of a

dark garage tell you or a view out of a dirty window that you can't see

through. They seem to do as little as they can for as much as they can

get, but ours did smile, and speak English.

The best advice that I can give you wfpTamar is to find out approximately where you want to buy and then to come over and rent a place on a long rental. That way you can see what you a re doing and also find out what the place is like and if you really want to live there? That is what we did in 2004. We took out a rental n a house for 2 years. We found the place we wanted within 5 months and got everything on the move. We then gave 3 months notice and that is/was the normal time it takes to actually complete on a house and had a seemless move from rented to owned.

We are doing exactly the same now we have moved back and we hope to complete and move out of our rented place to our new, to us, home at the end of next month at the latest?

Good luck with your move and leave the Devil behind, there's enough of them already on the roads in France [6]

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I am quite positive that there are honest helpful people on this forum who are selling their houses, just ask. Am sure they would supply you with all the details you are looking for in such a way that you could buy with confidence without even the need to visit France ;)
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We used Guy Hoquet when we sold and they were OK and the photos were fine. Also we negociated their fee before we did anything else. They weren't happy about that but did it never the less. Saved rather a lot of money for the buyers.

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idun wrote : Also we negociated their fee before we did anything else.

The estate agent we bought through cut his fee from 18.6K€ to 10K€ .. he offered this to ease negotiations. Just as well he did as his previous fee, plus the notaire/state fees, would have totalled 40K€ .. which is 'lost' money and one of the myriad of reasons I believe that French people stay put more than is found in some other countries.
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Yes, exactly that is a very good reason why people do not usually move much.

Must say that I'm glad that you said notaire/state fees.

Of anyone in this little lot, taxes, notaire and estate agent, it is probably the notaire who pockets the least, as the taxes are a LOT.

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We went through https://laresidence.co.uk

We said the area we were interested in, the price and the properties that we took a liking to from her site. LR made appointments for us with 4 agents - 1 french, 3 english over 3 days as there was some distance between them ie St Hilaire, Notre Dame de Touche, Lassay Les Chateaux and Domfront. We bought the last house that we visited. The agent didn't show us the particulars I found them whilst browsing through his folder which he'd placed on the table and when I asked about it I got 'oh yes that's a minute's walk from here'. We made an offer that the english owners didn't accept so the agent reduced his fee from 16% to get the sale finalised.
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16 % !!!!! You are having a laugh.

Buy direct from the owner. Quick calculation...that is 0 % agency fees.

I would never outside of a major city buy through an estate agent.

I WOULD ALSO NEVER....EVER.... engage with the services of a BRIT property non expert in France. Stay clear !!!

Especially those who claim to own the houses. If you know what I mean.
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[quote user="woolybanana"]Hang on, have I misunderstood, Mrs KG, the agent’s fee was 16%? If true, that is outrageous![/quote]

That's what he told us. If he was fibbing I don't know but we were told at the time (2003) that agents fees could be anywhere between 8% and 16% and I guess he would have had to pay some commission to LR.
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We chose the bestest of times to try and sell......... just as the crash happened!

So in the end we left the house in France and moved back to the UK anyway and as we were not there and it was 1k miles between our homes, left it with Guy Hoquet who sold it.

Just calculated and they took just under 4% commision. As I said, I

negociated. Also the house was in good nick and I daresay that they

reduced the commission as they knew they could sell it fairly quickly as

opposed to some houses which would take an age.

So, ALBF, at some point one has to be practical. Ours was a french built home, in a french village, we really were the only brits there and it was bought by a french couple.

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Norman wrote

Is this thread suggesting that if French agents were more like Anglophone ones they would sell more houses?

I wonder how they have managed so far without that thought...

Clearly either not that well, as they appear to need to charge colossal commissions in order to cover their overhead, or very well as they're selling loads of houses and still managing to persuade buyers and sellers that their input is worth anything up to 16% of the selling price.

I think the original post was suggesting ( I know, perish the thought that the French could get anything wrong ) that it's actually not difficult to understand basic marketing skills.

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[quote user="suein56"]idun wrote : Also we negociated their fee before we did anything else.

The estate agent we bought through cut his fee from 18.6K€ to 10K€ .. he offered this to ease negotiations. Just as well he did as his previous fee, plus the notaire/state fees, would have totalled 40K€ .. which is 'lost' money and one of the myriad of reasons I believe that French people stay put more than is found in some other countries.[/quote]

A chicken or the egg type of situation perhaps. In your opinion high fees restrict sales but I think that as the French, along with many other European countries, do not follow Britain’s model of having frequent sales along with a housing ladder there is much less business. That along with lower prices means that commissions need to be higher to allow agents to make a living wage.
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BinB wrote : .. but I think that as the French, along with many other European countries, do not follow Britain’s model of having frequent sales along with a housing ladder there is much less business. That along with lower prices means that commissions need to be higher to allow agents to make a living wage.

The estate agent in question has gone from strength to strength since we bought six years ago .. also he has cut his fees from 6% to 5% I learnt recently.

Ours is not at all a cheap area .. and it's continuously growing popularity means that the estate agents here earn rather more than a living wage ☺.

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[quote user="suein56"]BinB wrote : .. but I think that as the French, along with many other European countries, do not follow Britain’s model of having frequent sales along with a housing ladder there is much less business. That along with lower prices means that commissions need to be higher to allow agents to make a living wage.

The estate agent in question has gone from strength to strength since we bought six years ago .. also he has cut his fees from 6% to 5% I learnt recently.

Ours is not at all a cheap area .. and it's continuously growing popularity means that the estate agents here earn rather more than a living wage ☺.[/quote]

I’m not quite sure what you are saying. Most British residents would consider 5% commission to be huge.
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So, if there is a limited market for the business of estate agency in France then perhaps "survival of the fittest" or "the market will adjust itself" are also apt phrases.

As an aside, I also know of an estate agent who cut their fee to ensure a sale. Seems more of a marketing tactic to me - set them high and you can be brought down if things are not moving.

As a further aside and revisiting the presentation of properties issue. - sure a "professional" standard should be the norm from estate agents.

However I do find it bizarre how the majority of people go for super- fitted rooms, inviting fires, the smell of candles and freshly painted minimalist rooms. OK not having that may suggest a certain amount of neglect but why cannot people see through that and then fit out to their taste.

The adage "location, location, location" is definitely true rather than "paint, paint, paint" NB made last adage up!

NB estate agency fees vary but average about 2% in UK so BnB spot on. Also as stated higher fees in France may be necessary if there is smaller turnover. So yes, chicken and egg.

.
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If the seller wont be moved on the price as in our case then there is room for movement on the part of the agent if he's quoting extortionate fees especially if he wants to offload a property quickly as he did in our case. (English agent in the village selling for english who had bought the property from him!) Mrs KG

ps anyone remember Mark Blackford?
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Finally! I found a site that take their job seriously. Not sure if it's correct forum etiquette to link to agents ads, but this is an example of how properties should be advertised - Good clear, properly proportioned photo's and enough of them. Giving a bit of an idea of what the views from windows and terraces is like. 3D walkaround (hooray). Description could be a tad more elaborate. What I'd also really like is more search criteria (garage, terrace, pool) as well as the usual land and building sizes.

Had to chuckle at this Chrome translation '......an independent dependency of 25m....'.

https://cimm.com/bien/vente-maison-de-village-saint-bauzille-de-putois-34190-82403
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BIB wrote "I’m not quite sure what you are saying. Most British residents would consider 5% commission to be huge. "

I've just lifted this from Agence de la Tour

Description

Maison de ville a vendre-Lassay les Chateaux

Nous vous proposons a l'achat une charmante maison de ville sur 3 niveaux ,située dans un cité plein d'histoire.Cette maison vous offre un pièce de vie de 31m²,une cuisine,trois chambres un grenier et un cave .Vous profiterez en plus d' un petit cour orienté sud ouest. Classe énergie: D. Son prix est de 79750euros dont 4750euros ttc d'honoraires d'agence (6,33% -soit 75000euros hors honoraires) à la charge de l'acquéreur.Pour plus de renseignements n'hésitez pas à contacter l'agence La Licorne Immobilier de Bais au 02.43.01.08.88en précisant la référence de l'annonce: B12643LB3 dont 6.33 % honoraires TTC à la charge de l'acquéreur.

Référence annonce : B12643LB3

Le prix indiqué comprend les honoraires à la charge de l'acheteur : 6,33% TTC du prix du bien hors honoraires

Prix hors honoraires : 75 000 €
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My best french friend is just about a horder. She lived in a very small house, they lived in that, inspite of owning four ajoining bigger houses and theirs was full of stuff.

She then had one of the ajoining houses done up completely and I saw it before they moved in. It was lovely, airy, just what I thought she needed. AND then she took all the 'stuff' with her and got even more 'stuff',  and as there was more room, it feels even more cluttered than the last place, inspite of it being a LOT bigger.

I would defy anyone at all to see these are spacious rooms or the kitchen's big work surfaces, as there are just tiddly bits to work on at the moment. Even the HUGE dining table, since the family has grown, is mainly covered in stuff.

So yes, let people see the space, they don't need the distractions of other people's mess, they need to see where their things would go, or what they could do with a property.

Frankly lots of my french friends have rather cluttered homes, with HUGE furniture........some with that weird thing of curtains on kitchen cupboards, or instead of wardrobe doors .......... never  'got' that.

There is nothing wrong with a blank canvas.

It will be hard for the OP to judge.

Anyway, I agree, get to France and rent. A purchase is one thing, getting it really wrong with all the expense is quite another thing.

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