Thibault Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 It seems to me that in the end, it all boils down to the fact of whether or not one trusts the UK Government and its agencies with all this surveillance data and DNA records and whatever else they may collect in the name of protecting us from crime and terrorism.Call me cynical, but I do not. Dodgy dossiers spring to mind here.A previous poster was correct - once civil liberties have been given away or let go by default, it is extremely unlikely that we'll get them back.Another point to consider. Once we have biometric ID cards, we will be required to use them......everywhere. Organisations will find it convenient to ask for them for a whole manner of things. Using things like ID cards will leave a trail and "someone" will be able to track exactly where we have been and what we have been doing. The same goes for road pricing - that will give data on all our journeys. We already have something similar with mobile phone records. These existing records are at present "bitty" and in different places. However technology will enable all of these bits of data to be put together and stored.Soon there will be no such thing as privacy. Some/many will say it doesn't matter -" I've nothing to hide." However, to me, it is the principle which is important. Do I want the UK Government and its agencies to be able to track all my day-to-day activities etc and potentially provide this information to as yet unknown other organisations here or abroad?No I do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timc17 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Dick,I only pointed out a consequence of increased surveillance. I followed this by saying i welcome catching more criminals and advocate stricter punishments.Please can you explain how the BBC were able to obtain the names and addresses of convicted child killers/molesters out on probation for a recent Panorama. You don't think someone in the Probation Service leaked the information do you?Living in France i'm not a UK taxpayer so don't really care about increases in taxation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I personally think we would all be much more concerned if 'the authorities' French or British were not watching us all closely. Todays world is a very dangerous one, far worse than the cold war years. Crime is out of control due to widespread drug and alcohol abuse. British prisons are full up, violent crime especially towards women is increasing. A large section of the worlds population want to impose sharia law on the rest of us. I read the other day that your average heroin addict needs to commit £300,000 worth of crime a year to fuel an individual habit. Civil liberties are just that in my view, liberties for a civilised society, not the one we have to inhabit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Well said, Logan. A voice of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timc17 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Until people are educated to think that taking drugs and binge drinking is not cool and trendy then the situation will only get worse regardless of how many CCTV cameras are installed on Britain's streets. Instead of spending billions on CCTV , a DNA database and ID cards why not use the money to prevent crime rather than just record it and jail the offenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Thibault wrote."It seems to me that in the end, it all boils down to the fact of whether or not one trusts the UK Government and its agencies with all this surveillance data and DNA records and whatever else they may collect in the name of protecting us from crime and terrorism."I agree with that and, I'm sorry to say, that I don't trust the government. If it costs £300,000 per annum to fund a heroin addiction and if our society is less civilized than it was, then we should be tackling those problems. I can't see that me having a microchip passport will help; particularly when that passport can be copied with a £174 piece of equipment. Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote user="Dick Smith"]Unreasoned and unreasonable fear with no evidence to support it.[/quote]An overblown fear of terrorists who may not exist for example? Everytime I hear about this group or that planning to get their mits onnuclear weapons or chemical munitions I find myself wondering why onearth they would bother. It makes their lives too complicated. Farsimpler and just as effective in spreading fear and confusion would becarrying out low-tech suicide bombings on half a dozen McDonalds andsuburban train stations at rush hour, as we see with depressingregularity in Israel, Iraq and elsewhere. When the tube bombingshappened last year, I thought it was the begining of just this sort ofcampaign, but it has all gone rather quiet. It could be the good offices of MI5 preventing "them" from carrying outthe attacks, but although there are periodic arrests very few seem toever come to trial: notable exception this last week when Mr Barot gotlife for conspiracy, but even he had not got his elegant and complexplans off the ground, and some of them sound like the work of acomplete fantisist rather than a serious, competent terrorist. But ifthere were hoards of people out therewilling to martyr themselves I'd expect to see activity of Israelisort,not complex plots. Even the 9/11 killings were carried out usingbasically very simple plans with relatively few components.That groups like al-Qaeda exist and that they wish to do harm is not inany doubt. However, I cannot help feeling that the level of threat isbeing talked up by some interested parties to further other aims. MI5is going to double in size over the next five years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Sam Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote user="Dick Smith"]Salty - yes you are spied on every day (or to be less hysterical, your calls are auto-monitored for key words which would then trigger recording and an alarm) but not by your own country. That would be illegal. So the USA does ours and we do theirs.[/quote]Take a look at the Intelligence Services Act 1994 , there is plenty of scope to intercept on a 'need to know basis' quite within the scope of the law.The use of 'Big Brother' technology can and does prove beneficial not only in the tracking of criminal elements, etc, but also in the tracking of missing persons. If you hold and use a credit / debit card, a mobile phone, a peage transponder, a passport, a vehicle with built in tracking device, or simply drive a vehicle with registration plates, you can be tracked 24/7 - quite legally should the need arise ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 You could always give your doofer to a neighbour to throw "them" off your scent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Sam Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote user="Cassis"]You could always give your doofer to a neighbour to throw "them" off your scent.[/quote]Good idea Cassis, but there again perhaps not! The cost of the neighbour using my doofer would still be coming out of my bank account! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Exactly - so they'll think you're out and about when really you're under the bed counting your untraceable cash - meanwhile your neighbour reimburses you in cash as well - works for me, Interpol think I'm in Monaco! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Sam Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Untraceable cash!!! That's a joke - my good lady makes damn sure I don't have any untraceable cash as despite my best efforts she always manages to trace my hidden hordes. [:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I think wives are the greatest threat to privacy. I was trying to salt ([:$]) away money for a surprise Xmas present for Jude and she found where I had been hiding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Sam Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote user="Cassis"]I think wives are the greatest threat to privacy. [/quote]I'm with you on that one[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote user="Salty Sam"] [quote user="Cassis"]I think wives are the greatest threat to privacy. [/quote]I'm with you on that one[:D][/quote]They do actually say that one of the greatest risks of being reported to the tax man (should one not be being 100% truthful) is during a divorce and by your now ex partner.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 You both had the same partner? Wierd. (sic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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