The seventh largest French City is?

[Russethouse]

[quote user="hastobe"]But in this situation I think the French have it right.  In the UK anyone can call themselves an accountant - qualified, part-qualified - or can't even switch on a calculator.  I'm not suggesting that your relatives haven't any qualifications - but the lax approach of the UK means that  people often employ someone they think is properly qualified and experienced when in fact they have something rather less than that - in this case a book-keeper or an accounting technician rather than a fully qualified accountant. 

I have picked up a lot of very costly messes from less than qualified accountants - and at the end of the day its not me that pays - its the client who had the inadequate advice.

As an aside - I often wonder if this is why we get all the Brit wanabee carpenters, plumbers trying to set up in France  -  on the basis that because the UK has a lax approach - it's OK to do likewise in France.

Kathie


[/quote]

It it always pays to check

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6386069.stm

[Tresco]

[quote user="Russethouse"]It it always pays to check

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6386069.stm

[/quote]

Good Grief. I don't know whether to laugh or cry[:D][:'(]

[Pangur]

[quote user="RumziGal"]

Yes, but the point is that they're earning good money at 20, without any impressive school-leaving qualifications or anything like that.      

[/quote]

The UK must be the only EU country where it is considered acceptable for children to leave school with the equivalent of GCSEs.  One of the key reasons I and any nonBrit I know who lived in London fled as soon as we started families and had gained enough experience to hawk our CVs elsewhere.  The only people I know who want to stay in the UK are those earning buckets of money in the city.  It doesn't come across as a country that values education - if you can get a job, why bother learning to count. Most other countries try to keep their children in education a bit longer.    And yes, UK teenagers starting salaries might be impressive, but most will be penalised later in life for not having any qualifcations, finding it harder to get rises and promotions.  Plus they only have a very basic education behind them - personally, I think education is more about more than getting a paycheck.  Those pieces of paper are important - and especially so if there is a down-turn in economics.

As for the French in London (not the UK, living and working in London is not the same as living and working anywhere else in the UK), - is this not  one of the whole points of the EU, an opening of borders? There are young people from all over the world working in London, it's an amazing city with few equivalents and it is a city of immigrants and migrants.  We live in a world where migration is easy - there are lots of young Brits itching to go to Australia and French wanting to go to New York or London.  It's not an indictment on any country, it's just a wish for change and excitement.  

[KathyC]

[quote user="RumziGal"]

[quote user="hastobe"][I'm assuming from what you have said they are AAT qualified - so an accounting technician rather than an accountant - there is a big difference.   (By contrast - as a graduate and experienced ACA in a large practice - the charge out rate is up to £400 per hour - but that takes a hell of a lot of graft to achieve)

Kathie
[/quote]

Yes, but the point is that they're earning good money at 20, without any impressive school-leaving qualifications or anything like that.   There is a set of possibilities open to youngsters in the UK that isn't available to their peers (or above) in France.   Or at least, not without going to the UK...... that's all.  

    

[/quote]

For someone who is forever pulling off people's rose tinted specs about France, RG, you sure know how to wear them in the UK! The fact that you know someone who's been lucky doesn't make this typical of the young people in the UK, most of whom are poorly educated and working in minimum wage jobs - certainly away from the affluent south east. There's always someone who knows someone who has broken the mould and succeeded against all odds, whether in France or the UK.

[Pierre ZFP]

edit - this comment is re the forensic 'expert'

 

Ahhh, bless, I haven't heard anyone being called a "Walter Mitty-type character" for years.  I thought that went out of journalism with 'Phew what a scorcher'

 

[Cerise]

Sorry Pangur but that's rubbish.  Many people still want to be in the UK.  OK I live in France, but not one of my many friends and relatives envy me enough to want to be here instead of there.  As someone else said, dare to criticise France and the UK bashers will rise up and bite you.  Maybe you know a whole load of people who think the grass is greener, but if they all really want to leave the UK why don't they?  Perhaps because the idea is more attractive than the reality if they need to work.  Of course young people like to move around but the English youngsters I know mostly talk about gap years and then coming back to work.  The French kids I know mostly say, sadly, that if they want decent jobs they will have to leave - it is not because they particularly want to go.

My brother left school at 16 with only CSEs (oh the shame he couldn't even do GCEs in his secondary school[:'(]) started work in a bank, worked hard and today is a regional manager of said bank.  I don't think he feels hard done by and penalised (I'd ask him, but he's just left on a super cruise for his 25 wedding anniversary).  On the contrary I think he feels happy that he was brought up in a country where even though he came from a not particularly well off family and left school early he was still able to rise on his merits.  Try leaving school here with only the brevet and you will be stuck for the rest of your days.  Even if you decide at 25 that you should have worked harder you cannot easily return to education or take yourself to evening classes to get some qualifications as you can in UK.

One of our friends, who has a house in both countries, has recently gained his doctorate in astrophysics - aged 58.  He left school at 15 worked his way up to owning his own factory and decided to to the degree and then doctorate just because he was interested not because he needed to for his job.  His English friends applaud him, his French friends ask what use it will be. 

I too think education and qualifications are important, but I also think it is important that you should be able to do well if you don't necessarily do things in the 'right' order.

 

[Pangur]

Cerise, my post is based on my experience, and those of my friends, of living in the UK as an immigrants and I would like like to make clear I am not pretending to speak for any British people.  The great majority of my non British friends have left London and returned to their own country or to another.  And because they have qualifications and experience they are finding work in other countries - yes, including France. 

Regarding education, to me, it is a serious failing that the UK system allows - and expects - so many to leave at Brevet / GCSE level in this day and age.  The state should be giving its citizens a decent education in the first place and not expecting people to go back to school to catch up later.  Fair play to those who succeed based on this minimum qualification.

[Teamedup]

A few things off my mind. By nature I am an apprentice not a student. Me staying on at school would have been just plain daft and so I did some training for a job, and got a job in accounts. I always worked in accounts, saying someone works in accounts is in no way implying that they are an accountant. I was very good with figures, strangely some qualified accountants weren't good with figures. 

I like being trained 'with' the work, I learn best like that.I always worked with figures and money, larger and larger sums of money as the years went by. Was I good at my job, yes and well paid. Having an A level in math would not have helped me in my chosen work. Calculus is not a great help with simple arithmatic, which is basically what most of my work was about.

Don't think I am against education, but tarring all kids and saying that they  have to stay on and learn until they are 18 is a bad thing.  I am very much for choice, further education or the apprenticeship system, I know I am not the only one who learns far quicker by this method. AND for kids like me there was nightschool to learn other things if we wanted and I did go to nightschool.

[Missy]

[quote user="Sprogster"]As most French in the UK probably live in the greater London area and most expatriates don't bother to register with their embassy, the figure of 300,000 is probably therefore a gross under estimation if 270,000 have bothered to register with the French embassy in London! (The French Embassy would base their figures on French nationals who have registered with them as resident in the UK.)[/quote]

 

Well.... Moi[:$] lives in God's Country... and I am registered at the Consulat Général in London.... When I first arrived in UK (not quite when the dinosaurs roamed but nearly enough![Www]) I had to have a work permit on which was writ in bold letters that 'the bearer of this permit must report to the nearest police station on changing his/her address...etc...' which I duly complied to. When I moved from Banbury to St Albans, I went to register at the police station and with utter amazement on my part, the policeman there did not know what he was supposed to do with me wanting to obey the law of the land..... He called a colleague and neither had come accross that task before but they did in the end register my name on some piece of paper and I wouldn't be surprised that it got lost in the pile of paper which was on the desk at the time.....

So when faced with this kind of reception, I am not surprised that many faringers, from wherever in the world! they may come into the UK, never do bother to register.

As to Sarko coming over to find a few extra votes... he has yet to woe me on his charabanc.... I much prefer being allowed to vote in UK that I can have some kind of say on where my duly paid taxes to Mr Brown's coffers! are spent....  [:)]

when is Father Christmas coming again? do remind me...[;-)]

[hastobe]

Interestingly, there was a report on the 'Today' programme on Radio 4 this morning which highlighted how few Europeans working in the UK were actually registered as being here.  The report was from Poland and focussed on Eastern Europeans living in the UK - but the principle is the same.  Apparently there are estimated to be a million non UK residents (predominantly East Europeans) working on building sites - but only 2000 or so are registered...

Seems to support the comments above - that the numbers of French registered to work in the UK is probably underestimated.

Kathie

[Jeanneclaire]

I have not had anything to do with the above conversation, but to answer your question, I heard an MP give the figure of 300,000, read the same a week or two back in the Telegraph, I believe, and last but not least heard Sarkosy when he was in London say that now there were 300,000 people in England which made it the seventh largest French Town. Sorry to put my two penn'orth in, just thought I would answer your question.

jeanneclaire

[Ford Anglia]

[quote user="Teamedup"][quote user="Ford Anglia"]

Local paper in Southern Haute Vienne last week carried a story that in the Limousin, only 22% of the people between the ages of 16 and 30, and born there, actually live in the Limousin.

 

[/quote]

 

Now why would that be then?

[/quote]

Is that a rhetorical question? If not, do you know the Limousin? I'd imagine the reason is that there are few jobs, few large centres to attract jobs, relatively poor public transport, few inhabitants, etc.

 

[RumziGal]

[quote user="KathyC"]For someone who is forever pulling off people's rose tinted specs about France, RG, you sure know how to wear them in the UK! The fact that you know someone who's been lucky .[/quote]

No, it's not "someone who's been lucky", it's lots of people who have opportunities.   Just like all those young French people find in London, non?

I have no interest in pulling off anyone's specs.   That's a very strange thing to say.   Some countries are better for some things than others, that's all.    You may deride the UK, but it has provided plenty Brits with the opportunity to live the rich colonial life in France.  

French retirees with money, meanwhile, are bailing out to Marrakech.  [:)]

 

 

 

[Bugsy]

[quote user="RumziGal"]

You may deride the UK, but it has provided plenty Brits with the opportunity to live the rich colonial life in France.  

[/quote]

Where is my punkawalla................................................[:D]

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="RumziGal"]

You may deride the UK, but it has provided plenty Brits with the opportunity to live the rich colonial life in France.  

[/quote]

Where is my punkawalla................................................[:D]

[/quote]

He's probably gone to the cinema, since that's what French people do on a rainy Sunday like today.  Otherwise, as long as you're not employing him au noir, Bugbear, and he has the appropriate decennial insurance and a pretty SIRET number, that's okay!    

[Russethouse]

All I can say is that unless my daughter actually gets together with another would be home owner, property ownership looks a long way off - and she has got what I consider a fairly good, responsible job.

Only yesterday we were talking about two lots of her friends, one was helped with the purchase of her flat by her parents and they still help her out, the other a young married couple have seen their mortgage increase so the wife has just got a second job (been there, done that)

The lack of opportunity for young people to get on and stay on the housing ladder is a major concern. As the mortgage rates go up, repossessions have increased.

And before anyone says there is a recession coming - I have been told about said recession all the time I have been on this board - the market cools, then goes on, cools, then goes on. Prices simply have not tumbled in the way they did before, people seem to either decide to stay put or extend.

[Teamedup]

I think that what always amazes me these days is the expection that an individual should own their own place and be young to do it. When I was young, it was the aim of a couple, who would have thought that two youngish people could get together and both own their own places.

What happened? I missed this change over of expectations.

I have no idea as to what expectation young people either on their own or a couple have in France with regards to buying. It seems to be me that renting is something that a lot of people accept doing.

[Poppy]

[quote user="Teamedup"]

I think that what always amazes me these days is the expection that an individual should own their own place and be young to do it. When I was young, it was the aim of a couple, who would have thought that two youngish people could get together and both own their own places.

What happened? I missed this change over of expectations.

I have no idea as to what expectation young people either on their own or a couple have in France with regards to buying. It seems to be me that renting is something that a lot of people accept doing.

[/quote]

I have thought for a while (unusual for me) that young people in the UK no longer think about saving the world but only about getting on the property ladder. Gone are the days when students protested about the atom bomb etc etc. It seems nowadays they only think about trying to earn sufficient to buy a property. Probably fueled by their parents constantly saying how much the house is worth now and I only paid ???

[Russethouse]

Or the price of renting ?

I know people who have rented for 10 years at an average of £800 per month - do the math. Thats a lot of money to pay out and having nothing to show for it.

[powerdesal]

I must admit that we had been married 18 years before we bought our first house, maybe the cost of 3 children had an impact in that  [:)]

[Evianers]

If it is the same article we read, then the answer is The Financial Times [last weekend].