who else is leaving France?

[BJSLIV]

 I expect many people who come from rural Wales would be able to say the same thing.

I've often wondered what a survey of the geographical origins, within the UK, of  Brits moving to France would reveal. I've always suspected that it would reveal some kind of exaggerated "White Flight", IE the movement of the more prosperous away from the larger conurbations.

I don't think the inhabitants of rural Wales, Shropshire, Herefordshire or similar places would top the list of those heading for France.

[Blanche Neige]

"Southern England is just one great dormitory suburb of London; it just happens to have some bits that haven't been built on!"

 

Some lovely bits ( LOL very big bits even [8-|]) where I live[:)]

[hastobe]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

I don't think the inhabitants of rural Wales, Shropshire, Herefordshire or similar places would top the list of those heading for France.

[/quote]

I guess the fact we come from the Peak District explains why we are keeping a foot in the UK then... [Www]

Kathie

[Catalpa]

Okay, more precisely I meant southern / south-western England... [:D]

[quote user="hastobe"]

I guess the fact we come from the Peak District explains why we are keeping a foot in the UK then...

[/quote]

That'll be the webbed one I assume... [:P]

[hastobe]

Now if I could just get this derned tape off.....

Kathie

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="KathyC"]

My experience of living in the country was south Shropshire in the 90s; apart from the incomers (like us) many people were very much as you describe in rural France - or at least almost so.

Excuse  me while I just spit out me piece of  straw!

 I taught at the college in Shrewsbury and there were certainly a few students who'd never been out of the county

I once went on a trip to chester zoo with the school, thats in cheshire init!

and the majority had never been to London. Where we lived was about 20 miles from a supermarket

You must ave lived near Tenby Wells, the only town in Shropshire not to ave a supermarket and proud of it.

 and there was nowhere, apart from one pub, that was nearer than a half hour's drive to go to in the evening. I expect many people who come from rural Wales would be able to say the same thing.

[/quote]

No seriously Kathy I agree with your post (not the shropshire thing [Www]) most people have no real idea about living in the country, I was born here and have lived here most of my life, and thrive on it every day, I'm to busy to get bored! I am a housewife and proud to say I have been for nearly 28 years, not much housework goes on though, I'm to busy riding, swimming, gardening, evening classes where I am learning French and salsa, I also help out at horse shows. Even I would probable get bored in deepest rural France! So when we bought our holiday home we deliberately looked for a property not to far from civilisation! we do not intend to live permenently in France but hope to spend more and more time there.

 So if France is boring I'll start up some Salsa lessons for everyone[:D]

Chippy

 

 

[Hoddy]

What "real" country dwellers in the UK or France think of "townies" is probably worth a thread of its own.

Hoddy

[Ac50]

we left just over a year ago and have been trying ever since to get back!  It made me laugh reading your post because we want to leave Canada for all the reasons you reckon your friends are leaving France for.  Not even the luxury of being in a (theoretically) English speaking country makes up for all we left behind in France.  Utter boredom in winter - huh - try living where it's -25 degs for weeks on end and you can't get the car out of the drive because the snow ploughs have made 5 ft drifts at the end of it. The most exciting thing to happen here is seeing how many kids get their tongues stuck to lamposts on their way home from school!!!  Cheapest bottle of wine is at least 10 euros, so you can't even afford to drown your sorrows!   As for intelligent, educated friends, well it is North america so we should have known better!!!  What motivated us to give up our life in France - ego.  My husband was headhunted, offered a salary double the one he was receiving in France and a position as vice president with his new company.  The reality is we are no better off as taxes etc are higher here, he now works at least 48 hours a week instead of 35, and is down to 3 weeks leave a year instead of 7 weeks in France.  Thankfully our youngest starts university in September so I can move back to our house in Normandy.  How can you be bored in France in winter?  Even if you don't drive you can get on the train, there is so much to see.  All those museums, churches, art galleries, cafes, markets, Now I'm really feeling homesick.  You don't say if they have gone back to UK?  Be interesting to know how feel after they move, if they are really any happier.

[Tresco]

Hi Val.

Your experience is a classic example of money/titles not meaning everything. I'm not saying money isn't useful. I'm glad I've got enough and it would be grim here without it.

My OH was headhunted not long before we came over here. I admit I tried to get him to take it. It was a phenomenal offer...we weren't supposed to be moving here for another three years.

With hindsight, I think it would have killed him, and whatever dissatisfactions I have about being here, now, I'm glad he spoke out and didn't listen to me.

Just that once, you understand.[:)]

It's not long now... you'll love it when you get back.

 

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Ac50"]How can you be bored in France in winter?  Even if you don't drive you can get on the train, there is so much to see.  All those museums, churches, art galleries, cafes, markets, .[/quote]

Okay, so that gets you through the first winter....... then what?  [:)]

[zeb]

[quote user="Ac50"]How can you be bored in France in winter? Even if you don't drive you can get on the train, there is so much to see. All those museums, churches, art galleries, cafes, markets, .[/quote]

Um - what train?

[zeb]

It's interesting that many of the posts are by people who don't live in France permanently. We do, we've been here for five years and are living and loving a completely different life to the one we had in the UK, gardening and building as opposed to professional careers - not quite in Kathy's socio economic bracket (so she probably would avoid us like the plague) but close.

Now I garden for A1 people and have my fill of them that way - LOL. Back to my point.

I can understand why folks move back, move on etc etc. We have lived in this house longer than we have lived anywhere. We are serial movers, so now have itchy feet and will have another adventure elsewhere.

But really, why should it matter to anyone else? Why do you all smugly think that you have got it right and everyone who wants a new challenge has got it wrong? Have we failed? Have we not done our research, got the wrong locality, watched too much Place in the Sun, got bored with winter or the great unwashed and uneducated around us, not got a high enough income, not learnt the language etc etc?

No, I don't think so, and, as you know nothing about anyone else's lives, nor should you.

[Bugsy]

These posts make me laugh. "Who is leaving", "What don't you like...." etc, etc. 

If you like France, stay, if you don't, well, close the door on your way out................................[:)]

[Deimos]

I tend to think that life is what you make of it. I have lived in both town/city and countryside (significantly more of my life in the countryside). The countryside is not boring. People who live in the countryside are not dull. As with all things, you meet people, get on well with some and not so well with others.

The main thing seems that is you buy your house in France, move in and sit there waiting for the everybody to welcome you into their social world you will have a dull life. You need to "get out there", get involved in things, do things and you will have a full life.

For many the move from France to the UK is made at the same time as stopping work (e.g. (early) retirement). When you do this you immediately stop having the "forced contact" with everybody at work every day. Whether in France or the UK, changing lifestyles on stopping work can be difficult for some, but its the lifestyle change and not the country. Language might have some impact but in my personal experience little. I speak poor French yet have a good social life here (though actually not with my neighbours - we get on and say hello but not really the same type of people as I am). If you make the effort and realise you have to "go to the world" and cannot wait for "the world to come to you".

I had not realised that a lot of the posts in this thread were from people who do not live in France permanently. I have not been in this situation myself but can see how it can be harder for holiday home owners to establish a decent social life when staying in their house only periodically.

Ian

[Beryl]

These posts do serve a purpose though.

This is something that I have no direct experience so I may be talking through my hat, but I am sure there have been lots of people that love France but have been driven back because they did not do their research properly. 

I wonder how many people have bought wrecks in the middle of France and thought 'we can turn these into gites' and yet can't get any guests because there is nothing there to attract any guests... you know, the places where even the French can't wait to get out of !

I am not joining the ' there's not much that is right in France camp [:P]' but if these kind of posts can make people really do their homework and make a SUCCESS of their lives in France, that has got to be emotionally and financially better for them.

 

[Tony F Dordogne]

J and I have been city dwellers all our lives and faced coming to rural France with some trepidation.  We live in a rural setting, we have a huge garden on a steep slope with terraces - probably 75 times larger than the one we had in East London - plus we 'own' a wood.

We both had university and academic lives, lots of intellectual stimulation, all the benefits of the cultural life of London.

Coming here was to make the change as complete as possible.  We have met people from all walks of life here from the UK and from France.  We have also met a large number of people from other European countries, all of whom have brought something new to our lives.  If we met people that we didn't like, we didn't and don't meet them again.  Since we've been here we've dealt with a flooded house, loosing 4 friends in a car crash in the village and sometimes indifferent health.  That has been balanced by the changes we have made and the people that we have met, looking across the valley to the village every morning no matter what the weather and thinking we did the right thing..

We still get intellectual stimulation through our work (which is always stimulating) and through some of our friends.  We've just had one of the best Xmas' and New Years we've every had.  The commune (small and close knit) have taken us in and made us feel very welcome, mainly because we want to be part of it - perversely, the effects of the road accident was marked in that change, so many people, French and otherwise, who we had never met offering help and support.

We came here knowing that winters could be grim, that we may be snowed in and that the Dordogne empties of the maison secondaire owners.  But, the people of all countries who are here year round look after each other, we have fetes throughout the year, we get together and chat, get together for more intellectual stimulation with some really deep and meaningful stuff and we never, ever get bored.

If nothing else in the winter, we are planning what we'll do in the garden the next year so we make sure that we don't get bored.

Bored - ok, it's not London but never bored.  Tired sometimes, have to be on top of the diaries to make sure we don't double book but that's about the worse of it.

[Teamedup]

I have never said that the paysan were boring. I know some wonderful people in France, I also know some horrors, now wouldn't you expect that everywhere.

But Deimos, how do you have good company every day in France? The bars in the village are a no no, just the alcaholics go there, there are the assoc, but are we that odd in this village that they only meet once or at maximum twice a week. These famous fetes, well two or three times a year.

That leaves me with a great wasteland, with 'high' moments of a chat in the village when buying bread or some such thing. My friends just don't expect me to be round all the time, once every couple of weeks is sufficient for them and they tell me and they mean it, that they will miss me terribly, one with a tear each time, and I feel like screaming and crying, well please let us get together more often......... but there is a status quo that I know I shouldn't break.

AND I am left bored. We cannot afford to drive or catch the train to things all the time, we have a station not too far away.  AND we have visited just about everything around here that we want to anyway. AC50 I will certainly be happier when I have moved back, I was happier when I was back for several months just over a year ago. I was just so occupied with things that I couldn't be occupied with in France.

[Panda]

Hi All

In my opinion success or failure can depend heavily on your relationship with your OH and your life before the move.  I worked very long hours and so saw very little of my son or husband when in the UK, now I see my son a great deal and my OH almost 24x7. 

This change can in itself make things very difficult, your relationship has to be very strong to take this kind of change and I count myself very lucky that, cliché as it is, my husband is a great friend with whom I share the exact same sense of humour. Our ability to laugh everyday at the most stupid things makes life here a joy, if this relationship was not great I would be very lonely as, although I have made some friends here they live a drive away and so we get together only monthly.

It's one reason why I find it hard to understand how couples can have one person working in the UK and commuting, I can't imagine the strain that must put on things in the other direction, long separations are just as hard to bear.  I can not see the point of doing this, if I had no work here, or in my case no work that could be done from home then we would all go back to the UK (or try somewhere else), otherwise any gain from moving would be lost.  I guess if you can't bear your OH 24x7 then working in the UK might be a break :o)!

When I was in the UK we lived in Gloucestershire and despite it's image the area does have many people who have never owned a house and have never been abroad, we lived in the countryside, about 8 miles to the nearest supermarket and there was no village pub so our life here isn't so different, the biggest change is that I get to see those who mean the most to me for a greater chunk of time everyday. I also get to see the rest of my family more, they turn up every holiday, can’t shake them off!

Life is not a rehearsal, as they say, so do what you want, stay if it suits go back if it doesn't, you never know how long you've got!

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Deimos"]I tend to think that life is what you make of it.[/quote]

In a philosophical sense, yes.   But if it's that easy, why doesn't everyone just stay where they are?   Why not "make the best" of the daily M25 experience?  [:)]   

[quote user="Deimos"]

The main thing seems that is you buy your house in France, move in and sit there waiting for the everybody to welcome you into their social world you will have a dull life. You need to "get out there", get involved in things, do things and you will have a full life.

[/quote]

Not entirely true.   There is a different set of social expectations going on.   As TU just said, there's not the spontaneous "dropping-in" culture, things are much more formal and organised. 

I was discussing the music thing with some (French) friends the other night.  They said it's much more "consommateur" here, music is something you pay to go and watch (or get paid to perform), it's not a conviviale thing that people just do for pleasure.   Except maybe in Brittany, bien sur!   [;-)]  

I still have friends I met at various evening classes in the UK 10 years ago.  I've done a billion "activités" in France, including musical ones, with a net result of zero to show for them.    You go, you do the activity, you come home.   End of story.

If you're a sociable, spontaneous, laid-back kind of drifty individual, the rigour and functionality of French life is kind of hard!  [:)]

 

 

 

[cooperlola]

Living in the countryside in France or the UK can be a bit of a shock to the system, it's true.  But Panda you have a good point.  We moved from rural UK to rural France, but I think the biggest difference for us was the fact that we don't work any more.  Even we, after over 30 years of marriage, were not at all sure how we'd fair, being together 24/7.  The key seems to be for us, the amount of stuff we both enjoy doing on our own. 

I think you need to be pretty self reliant and have plenty of things you enjoy doing and that don't rely on others too much.  In my case, riding (which brings a social life of its own), walking (ditto), and in the O/H's building a model railway; plus we have lots of motor racing to see, we can get away a bit more which we couldn't when we were working - only an option for those of us lucky enough to have reasonable pensions.  Then there's always something to do to the house too.  Life just isn't one long party and if that's what you need then rural France probably isn't for you.  But if you take pleasure in the rural life, and have plenty of things to keep you occupied it can be really great.  The question you need to ask yourself is, "Do you really love peace and quiet all the time, or just for a couple of weeks a year as a break from grafting?"  If not, you should probably avoid the country life, in France or Britain.

And if you are unhappy with the choice you've made, don't be afraid to admit it and move on.  It's not a crime to be wrong, only to carry on being unhappy when you have the power to change things.

[Lassie]

There  hasnt yet been a posting from anyone who has actually left for all the wise reasons that have been mentioned. Did they go back on the same rung of the property ladder they left?  Did they meet with 'I told you so' comments I wonder?

Out of interest I mooted the idea of going back to the UK with some people this weekend, a mix of holiday home owners and residents and they were all horrified.  It was exactly the same reaction we met when we said we were leaving the UK! It goads people because they think you must think your idea is somehow a criticism of their lifestyle. We never expected to stay here until we went into the maison de retraite so will await a recession in the UK for house prices to tumble and be grateful that we had the chance to live in a wonderful country with the scope to learn so much. For the fit, comfortably off , early retirees, its a great way to spend a few fun years, but I wouldnt advise anyone with young children to think of making their life here. Heigh ho, back to sanding the bathroom floor.

[cooperlola]

Good point Lassie.  I have friends who have just moved over here and they are quite candid about the fact that they'll probably move back to be nearer the kids if - sorry when - one of them shuffles off the old mortal coil, or they get too unfit to remain.  And you're right, you have to be pretty firm if this is your aim, and not worry too much about what others think.

[Cerise]

I find the 'going back' thing a bit strange.  If we leave here we definitely won't return to our last place of abode in the UK - in fact we may not go the UK at all.  If we go, we will 'move on' not 'go back'.  I think you would only go back if you had somewehere to go i.e. if you had never sold up and severed your links in the first place.

I never moved here with the intention of staying for the rest of my life and unless I reach 98 with one foot in the grave can't imagine ever saying 'this is forever'.  I'm really delighted that we moved to France.  It hasn't always been what I hoped or plain sailing.  Some things have exceeded my expectation others failed miserably.  But, most important, we did it.  For the moment we are here, but we are constantly discussing the next possible move.  I realise that makes many people uncomfortable and they feel there must be something wrong with your life if you feel like that.

Going back sounds sad to me - moving on sounds great.

[WJT]

This is a little off subject because it shows mainly the reason many are coming to France but also gives the same reason many French want to leave France.  It has all been said before about epats living in bubbles etc..but I still found it interesting. [:)] 

http://www.expatica.com/source/preview_content_story.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=13064

[hastobe]

As you said WJT - it sums up what has been said before - life in the snail lane of rural France suits the well heeled retired Brits.  The UK (or more accurately London) is for the young aspiring French. 

In response to zebs comment - my comment about socio economic groups was not a reference to income but rather the lack of common background, education life experience etc.  It's difficult to have an indepth intelligent debate with someone who believes that the best treatment for burns is to get a 'healer' who will 'draw out' the burn. 

Kathie