Warning for those who want to move to France....

[Blanche Neige]

so it's probably a case of "foreigners not being the same as us" [;-)]

[Tresco]

[quote user="Blanche Neige"]so it's probably a case of "foreigners not being the same as us" [;-)][/quote]

It would seem that way. [;-)]

[Chief]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]What he says sounds pretty sensible and non-controversial to me. Instead of dismissive one-liners, explain to us how he is wrong.
[/quote]

Bang on the money Dick.....

[ThomasD]

From my own, two years worth of experience I think one of the biggest dangers in this topic, either in this thread or in the many many others like it, is that far too many people generalise far too readily. What works for one person does not necessarily (in fact in all probability is perhaps more accurate) work for others. From my own circumstances (why/how I came to France, what has happend to my personal situation once here) by rights, according to some of the loudest voices on this forum, I should have gone bust ages ago and lost everything. I have not. I admit it has not been easy, but I am hanging in here and am giving it everything I have. Given my circumstances I am sure others may very well have fared better, and others worse, and that would be the same for me given other sets of circumstances.

The endless 'attempts' to find the perfect list of why some people do not make it in France, so that future people do not fall into the same trap, are futile. I do not believe there are two sets of personal circumstances that are ever going to be very similar. How each person fits in, or not, depends on a whole range of factors and issues, from personal attitudes, values and beliefs to social circumstances beyond their control. But that does not mean that others can not learn from individual experiences - whether of 'failures' or sucesses.

[ThomasD]

[quote user="Monika"]

Many French people have told me that superficial friendliness is typical of the South, and people will be all over you at first, but just out of nosiness (or curiosity, that sounds less harsh!).   Once they know what they want to know, you won't see them again.

[/quote]

Interestingly, my neighbour told me this about all the people in our commune in Seine Maritime (Normandy)... and ironically it was most applicable to her [:D][:D]

 

[MrCanary]

Yes, sorry Dick, perhaps my comment was a bit harsh.

It would be hard to sit in judgement of somebody who has been banned without knowing why...

[MrCanary]

Oh, and 'Hi' Chris - didn't see your post initially.

No, I am not hiding behind a pseudonym, I just prefer to do it that way. Whilst it is a matter of personal preference, the only time I feel it is important to use your correct name is when you are a moderator. Which is why, on the site to which we allude, I changed my name from GoodKnight to Mel when I made the mistake of becoming a mod.

It is interesting that on here, I left a few clues as to who I was and I honestly expected Dick Smith to be the first one to pick up on them. However, it was teamedup who sent me an e-mail having got there first! I have replied a few times to that e-mail, but keep getting them returned.

Incidentally Dick, contrary to what everybody was thinking at the time, I only ever banned one person and you can probably guess who that was...  

 

[Dick Smith]

I got it pretty soon...

One day you'll have to explain to us the inside story of that whole, sad tale, but unfortunately Forum Admin here has made a promise to Trevor that we won't be allowed to discuss it. Apparently there's some sort of closed shop of forum-runners which doesn't allow critical comment.[:-))]

[MrCanary]

I have to say that Trevor is a very nice guy with a big heart and a willingness to help anybody. I really mean that and although I no longer see him, I would not say anything bad about him. However, I think the forum was perhaps not a good idea... 

[Logan]

Smuger wrote:-

• else, that keeps you intellectually and physically challenged

• Thirdly, the French are not very interesting. In fact they are quite miserable. You will find loads of French ‘professional’ French folk who will lament the dearth of work-ethic, etc. amongst their compatriots – but who will be as incompetent and idle as your worst English slackers.

• You can wax lyrical about the French countryside, cassoulet, quaint local customs (eg. force feeding geese to make make foie gras) and dubious (but cheap) wine but after a couple of weeks you’ll be yearning for a Tesco and decent vegetables (cabbage and potatoes, mostly). And remember you can get as much as you want of the

• Consider seriously your own needs and requirements. If you regard moving to France as a way of resolving unsuccessful UK business, financial or personal relationships, you are doomed to failure. A failure in the UK (or anywhere else) definitely means a failure in France.

• Secondly, forget the oft quoted “you must learn French asap”.  Yes, it’s useful but it’s not the key to living in France. You’ll never get your French up enough to talk fluently and eloquently as you would (hopefully) in your own native language, unless you marry a French person or have a viable business in France. You will need a raison d’etre for living in France. Fishing, golf, wine-making, or something French countryside by going on holiday, rather than living there.

• It ain’t cheaper than the UK in the long run. Housing is cheap but cost of purchase, maintenance, insurance, heating oil, electricity, taxes habitation and foncieres is way high. And if you earn decent money they’ll take it away in tax.

• And finally take, with a pinch of salt, those stories of idyllic bucolia that the us Brits are so keen to promulgate. Sometimes folk can over-egg their puddings.

This list above written by Smuger is a good description of life in France. It's also a shorthand description of life anywhere else. France is just one more country which may or may not suit the individual. I often wonder why folks who move to France think that things will be very much different from the place they originated from. Life is pretty much the same anywhere unless you go to live in the Sahara or Bagdad. It is usually economics which influences us the most. As you age then healthcare and security come to the fore. I believe Europe is very samey and the gulf between life in France and life anywhere within Europe has a Nats breath of a difference.

[Bugsy]

..........................", the French are not very interesting. In fact they are quite miserable".

That sentence is the biggest load of b*****ks I think I've ever read. 

Some of the French are not very interesting, OK, some are even miserable, OK.

Many, many french people are very interesting and have a great sense of humour, can I suggest that it just takes the right approach to find it.

There seems to be an increasing number of individuals only too happy to slag off the natural inhabitants of this country with their 'blanket' statements.

Maybe they should have a really good look at themselves before blaming everything on others.

 

ayez un jour agréable

 

 

[Russethouse]

At the request of several forum users this thread has been pruned to keep it closer to the original topic

Most people who have had posts deleted will have been notified by email.

[cooperlola]

I agree, Mr Bugbear.  There's quite a lot of sense in the original post but that one is just a sweeping generalisation.  However, further down is the big giveaway.  Anybody who thinks that learning French is pointless is by implication going to find the French dull as a nation.  How can you carry on an interesting conversation with a vocabulary of 1000 words - of course they seem boring - the feeling is probably mutual.  The more French you learn, the more interesting conversations you will have with the French; the more interesting conversations you have, the more French you will learn.  I'm not working here or married to a French person but I regularly have long involved conversations with all sorts of people.  Just last week, I interviewed Hugues de Chauac and Yves Courage... I couldn't have done that 3 years ago but now I speak well enough to do it with ease.  But you have to work at it and suggesting that it is pointless is faintly ridiculous...

[Logan]

The subject of superficial friendliness has been described very well in some posts here. I believe that it's common in almost every culture in the world and not peculiar to France. Humans find it to easy to be superficial, anything else means commitment, effort and giving something of yourself. Most of us do not have the time or the inclination to move into that stage of a relationship. It creates to many difficulties. I suppose it comes down to our expectations. Or perhaps we seek too much from very little. It is a mistake to blame a country for such things. You will find it everywhere you go. As I have often written on this forum, fundamentally life is very much the same in any country or place. What changes is your own personal view of it.

[Babbles]

Logan, at last some sense is spoken

[KathyC]

And what's wrong with superficial friendliness anyway?  Most of the time I'd be happy with people being reasonably well mannered; anything else is a bonus. I don't go out of my way to be anything more than courteous to new neighbours in the UK: I certainly don't expect to be bestest friends with French neighbours when we move.

(But then I grew up in Surrey, where the highest praise was "they keep themselves TO themselves". Perhaps the experience has warped me.)

[cooperlola]

True Kathy, the best friendships are surely cultivated over a number of years, not overnight?

 

[ThomasD]

There are at least four posts that have survived pruning that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic ... and yet at least one (that I remember anyway) that was at least on topic has gone ... [8-)] ...  the mind boggles it really does ...

[Bob T]

I love it when one persons perception of what they believe to be facts can stir up such a debate. From my perspective none of it is what I have experienced. OK I have only been here 2 and a half years, but I love the people, they are very freindly, I can look at the fantastic countryside and see something new with the passing of every season. I find it much cheaper to live here and can fund my passion.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, mine is the opposite to the original post.

I don't really see why anyone would post something here that is different to what most of us came here for, was it to persude us to leave too? Sorry, but I am staying.

[Tresco]

[quote user="ThomasD"]

There are at least four posts that have survived pruning that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic ... and yet at least one (that I remember anyway) that was at least on topic has gone ... [8-)] ...  the mind boggles it really does ...

[/quote]

Thomas, I think pruning is quite tricky, and that the mods cut out later posts, but couldn't 'weed' out any that were intererspersed with on topic replies.

It's not a bad job, given the problems of thread splitting. Let's not be churlish, eh?

Edit; Especially since you, and I, have both just added off topic comments[;-)]

[Russethouse]

[quote user="ThomasD"]

There are at least four posts that have survived pruning that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic ... and yet at least one (that I remember anyway) that was at least on topic has gone ... [8-)] ...  the mind boggles it really does ...

[/quote]

No need to let your mind boggle Thomas D,[:)] This software has some short comings which mean that deleting individual posts from the midst of others is virtually impossible, each deleted post also takes the one under it. In practice this means deciding on a reasonable place and deleting everything under it - apart from anything else if you 'cherry pick' and actually change the order the 'sense' can be lost.

Sorry !

Back on topic now please..................

[ThomasD]

[quote user="Tresco"]

Edit; Especially since you, and I, have both just added off topic comments[;-)]

[/quote]

 ... entirely intentionaly on my part. Although I take your point, not sure I was being churlish. I was making a straight forward observation that I think the pruning of this thread has been more for expedience than relevance. In which case, why bother pruning?! And I did so all to aware I was off topic, as are the four posts to which I was referring to. [;-)]

[Deby]

Interesting thread!  Having been back in the UK 20months.  Do I miss France, of course I do? We also considered the move to Northern Ireland as opposed to the UK - what put us off was simply the weather.  NI has some fantastic facilities though and is definitely up and coming.  Belfast has had tons of money thrown (still being thrown) at it.  So good luck.

Essentially, we will return but it will be once the children are through their schooling, and I will be certainly one of those with a foot in both camps.  I have seen recently that those who seem to flourish in France are the reitrees.  I do think it is very difficult for those with young families seeking 'a better life'  I have met so many people in the UK wishing to leave in search of better things and failing to see the good in their own lives. This is what the original poster stated as the main reason to move to France, it is honestly the wrong footing. 

When we moved initially it was just to try it out out for a year or two and we ended up staying six years! Simply returing because our needs had changed.  People should question why they wish to re-locate to France.

Our children love France dearly and it is great when they can literally roam around and become scamps - not a computer in sight thankfully! Picking up on another thread, yes I do believe french children are better disciplined, but they do lack freedom of expression and thought. 

Deby

[Wendy]

You will love NI. I did. The people there are fantastic, friendly and olde-worlde couteous. But, you must be doing well to buy there though as house prices have gone through the roof.  I know as we have two properties there on rental.

I concur with most of what you have said.

It ain't cheap to live here. We cannot get local French to do the work we want done. I hate the sickly sweet sliced white bread here. The Baguettes go rock hard after a day.

But we are sticking it out.

For now.

I know what you mean. We went there just before Xmas last year and it was magical in Belfast.

I have always said that Northern Ireland is an undiscovered jewel. And I stick by that.

Good luck!.

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Deby"]

 yes I do believe french children are better disciplined, but they do lack freedom of expression and thought. 

[/quote]

I agree.  There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.  There is a price to pay for that model behaviour.