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Post election violence


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Am I the only one who takes the view that when Segolene Royale predicted violence if Sarkozy was elected, it was bound to happen? Was she naive or acting intentially? Let's hope that it dies out tonight.

What do you think?
Steve

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She was trying to frighten the electors into voting Sarkozy. In our little village there was a kind of whispering campaign going on that there would be all sorts of trouble if the Socialist candidate was not chosen. Didn't work though, they voted 75% Sarko. She was playing with fire.
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That would have definately turned me off her, if I had been able to vote.

I thought Sarko's speech was very good yesterday when he acknowledged her and her voters. He seemed to want to unite France and she seemed ,even after the event ,to be divisive.

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What post election violence?  There was probably a bigger fight outside the Emirates stadium after the Chelsea Arsenal match than in Paris. Must have been all of 50 people involved I wonder how much Sky paid them to turn up or is that too cynical.  There are no reports in any of the SW France papers of any "riots" anywhere.  Did anyone on here actually see any riots, apart from in Leeds when they got relegated[:P]

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The number of rioters or indeed the number of riots is irrelevant.

The mere fact that Royal alluded to the certainty of riots should Sarkosy be elected was pretty low from a person with presidential ambitions.

[quote] Le Monde:

367 voitures ont été brûlées en France métropolitaine au cours de la

nuit et 270 personnes ont été interpellées, a fait savoir lundi la

direction générale de la police nationale (DGPN). Sur l'ensemble des

véhicules incendiés, "172 l'ont été en Ile-de-France, parmi lesquels moins d'une dizaine à Paris", selon un bilan arrêté lundi à 6 heures. Police et gendarmerie ont interpellé "270 personnes, dont 136 en province, 46 à Paris et 88 dans le reste de l'Ile-de-France". Concernant les voitures brûlées, "on est à peine au-dessus de la nuit du 14 juillet 2006 et en-deçà d'une nuit de Saint-Sylvestre", a relevé la DGPN (Direction Générale de la Police Nationale).[/quote]

Le Figaro

Libération

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I watched the election results on TF1 - followed by a reasonable political debate by Fillon, Juppe, Holland and Lang et al..

Later switched over to Sky News - a complete load of rubbish.  They seemed to have no idea about what was actually going on and spent most of the programme trying to find someone to talk up Sarkozy's election provoking riots on the streets.  Even whilst the cops were bashing the protesters less than two miles away, they still didn't have a clue.  Very poor reporting.

 

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[quote user="Clair"]The number of rioters or indeed the number of riots is irrelevant.

The mere fact that Royal alluded to the certainty of riots should Sarkosy be elected was pretty low from a person with presidential ambitions.

[/quote]

i agree, a serious mistake imo - maybe a sign of desperation on her part?

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[quote user="Sunday Driver"]Later switched over to Sky News - a complete load of rubbish.  They seemed to have no idea about what was actually going on and spent most of the programme trying to find someone to talk up Sarkozy's election provoking riots on the streets.  Even whilst the cops were bashing the protesters less than two miles away, they still didn't have a clue.  Very poor reporting.[/quote]

My opinion too... and the Sky reporter in Paris (spot the Eiffel Tower in the background!) was struggling to pronounce Sarkosy's name...

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Well, I also hold nearly every single person I talked to about the elections responsible too.  They all suggested that it would be a hot time in France (although not on TV, I admit).  I don't know where you all live, or what world you inhabit, but nearly every politically knowledgable person is or will be expecting some kind of "chaud" after the election of Sarkozy, either when policies begin to be revealed or at some other time.  Remember that the riots a couple of years ago happened soon after two kids ran away from the cops and were unwise enough to hide in a power station in their own neighbourhood and then got electrocuted.  Riots can start for any or no reason.  As they do in Britain.  But after the fact, many people can figure out why.   There are often reasons, underlying reasons that have little to do with the trigger event.

So let me ask you why you think poor, young, often not-white, French men riot?       

Right, now that you have thought about it, do you really think it has anything to do with a vague prediction by a presidential candidate?  You think maybe Sarko didn't think it might happen.  Surely you can see there are other deeper reasons.  And if any of you think there are not going to be demos, strikes and violence in France over the next year, then I really would like to know what little hameau in the middle of nowhere you live in.  There is a serious social conflict going on in France now, and the Great Concilotor is not our Nick.  You do surely remember the violence when Thatcher tried to put through her "reforms".  It really is to be expected.

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[quote user="TreizeVents"]Well, I also hold nearly every single person I talked to about the elections responsible too.  They all suggested that it would be a hot time in France (although not on TV, I admit).  I don't know where you all live, or what world you inhabit, but nearly every politically knowledgable person is or will be expecting some kind of "chaud" after the election of Sarkozy, either when policies begin to be revealed or at some other time. [/quote]

(My bold)

I agree with TV.

Royal was very unwise to repeat these predictions a day ahead of the elections, but she was pretty much the last person to say there would be a reaction of this kind.  Such predictions have appeared in every kind of media for the last few weeks.

She shouldn't have said it, it was a very bad lapse, in terms of her last minute campaigning, but she didn't cause or invite the disturbances and violence.

I have never really seen a candidate so badly advised...the alternative being that she is a loose cannon, and personally I don't think she could have done so well if she was that.

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I would certainly not agree with that.  I am not sure that elections choose "the best person".  I am not sure that Sarkozy didn't make as many gaffes.  Its not clear why she got defeated and why he won, although the outcome is not in doubt.  I suspect its simply because the French were not ready for a woman as big chief.  All we can say is that it is over.  Sarkozy will shortly be president and we shall see what he gets up to. 

I remember when Sego first started being a candidate.  I thought to myself that they are reporting every single thing she does slightly differently as a "mistake", as something which shows lack of presidential character.  I couldn't really figure it out.  Sarkozy who fiddled his property deals, who had much to do with inciting the youth with his off colour use of words while being filmed, whose wife doesn't even like him that much ... He seemed like he had teflon clothes.  Although many people suggest that he had the media in his pocket. 

He probably was the better candidate.  He has been rehearsing for the role longer.  So you coud say the better candidate won, but not necessarily the better person.  As for France, we shall all be around for a few years and find out what, if anything, changes.  And who it benefits.  Count on Sarko's pal Bouygues doing well out of it though.

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I would have thought that Royale and others of her supporters who mentioned the likelihood of violence were also coming pretty close to incitement which used to be a crime didn't it?
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[quote user="Ron Avery"]What post election violence?  There was probably a bigger fight outside the Emirates stadium after the Chelsea Arsenal match than in Paris. Must have been all of 50 people involved I wonder how much Sky paid them to turn up or is that too cynical.  There are no reports in any of the SW France papers of any "riots" anywhere.  Did anyone on here actually see any riots, apart from in Leeds when they got relegated[:P]
[/quote]

Yep, been there, avoided arrest.

Just got back from Paris.  I was working out near La Defence from Sunday.  Finished work late on Sunday so didn't go into town. All seemed to be OK, good party atmosphere until Sarkosy clinched it, then down by Bastille there were very bad scenes with many involved, fires, fights, baton charges the lot - all shown on TV so I don't understand the above comment.  Monday eve, hopped on the RER with the intention of going to centre of town.  Got as far as Les Halles and we were advised best not to go to Concorde or Bastille as it looked like trouble again.  Went to check it out (of course) but many, many people gathering and as they say, the crowd was ugly.  LOTS of police in riot gear and batons drawn.  Decided not to go any further and sure enough, more fighting in the streets shown on TV.  Sky didn't pay for that I think.

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As far as anyone can tell, there would not have been those violent manifs if Sego had been elected.  What does that actually mean?  I mean when you think about it hard.  You could say it means that the rioters, who will forever be known as "anarchists" or "extremeist leftists" during the Sarkozy years, are just waiting for an excuse to fight.  Maybe.  But maybe there is something else a little less superficial.  Maybe Sarkozy is well hated and well feared, for every good reasons, unless you are rich.  However, the easiest thing to do is to demonise the violence, show that they are scum, and bust them.  I wonder if that is really the smartest way to do it, even if that is the Sarkozy, law and order way.  There are only a few of them now.  And lots of them were white.   Later?

Do any of you have thoughts other than they are violent scum and should be busted?  Although maybe that is all there is to it.

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Presumably it was one person, one vote.  Presumably everyone who wished to vote, voted.  I assume that no corruption was involved in either of the rounds.  In a democratic political system, doesn't one have to accept the verdict of the ballot box?  If you feel the  "wrong" candidate was elected in a free, fair and democratic election, surely the response is to organise and work towards voting that candidate out at the next election, rather than violent demonstrations, burning cars and burning schools etc. 

After all, isn't that the way democracy is supposed to work [:)]

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