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Tax Foncieres Increase


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Could anyone please tell me if they have had a sizeable increase in their Tax Foncieres this year.

Our average bill used to be around 450 euros, we have added 4 rooms to our house (we always had these, but have had them renovated) the ground area is probably an extra 470 sq ft added to the original size. It has risen to 1100 euros, I can not understand how it has gone up so much.   I take it that this is the (BASE) that is shown on the Tax Foncieres form!

[8-)]

 

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If you think the increase is unjustified, you can ask how the property has been rated compared to the previous year. The contact details are shown at the top of the bill.

You say you have added 4 rooms, but then you say that the rooms have always been there...

Had they been classified as habitable before?

Have you changed any of them them to bathrooms?

Have you installed central heating?

Do you now have a separate kitchen which might have been part of the main room before?

I completed a H1 form a couple of years ago and after receiving an increased bill, found out that the previous owner had never declared the central heating (installed 10 years previously)... When I completed the form, I declared it and it automatically brought my house into a higher band and the tax increased accordingly.
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As Clair has said its not only the size of the property that counts but also the quality.

Adding things such as bathrooms, WCs, central heating will all give a disproportionate increase in the rental value/ tax base. Having more than one bathroom will almost certainly increase the valuation significantly.

You say you have added / brought into service 470 sq feet. I don't know how much area you already had, but 470 is already a not insignificant space and if you have more than one bathroom and aren't totally off the beaten track 1100 euros could well be the going rate.

The good news is that your Habitation will have increased by a similar proportion.

 

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Thank you for the reply.

I will try to give a little more info.

Originally we had around 580 sq ft of floor space, which included One Bedroom - One Living Room - One Small Back Room - No Toilet.

We Renovated and added -  One Small Bedroom - One Bathroom with Toilet - One Kitchen - One Living Room - One Small Toilet & One Back Room.

We do not have central heating.

The building was already there, but the flloors had rotted away, so this used to be an old house, it was not habitable in the state it was in.

Do they not have an upper level for Tax Foncieres?

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Do they not have an upper level for Tax Foncieres?

Afraid Not.

Ours is €630 LESS than last year.

Can you see why its changed? Is it the rental value of the property or the rate applied by one of the many taxing authorities?

As for the rubbish, you can expect to receive a new bill from a separate refuse authority. Fortunately its unlikely to be for 630 Euros.

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Hi

We have also had a massively increased fonciere - proportionally higher than your own.    We have simply converted loft space of very small cottage to one bedroom and one bathroom.   Also took down a wall downstairs, thus in real terms we actually have the same number of rooms (apart from bathroom) as before.  

I also find it hard to believe that adding something as essential (in these times) as one bathroom where none existed previously should indeed justify such an increase, and next week intend to give the issuing authority a call, and just check if the bill really is correct.

Please don't tell me the habitation will go up also, as this is now starting to look very expensive ???   Why would both increase please, or am I being a bit thick here ?

 

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[quote user="BJSLIV"]

Do they not have an upper level for Tax Foncieres?

Afraid Not.

Ours is €630 LESS than last year.

Can you see why its changed? Is it the rental value of the property or the rate applied by one of the many taxing authorities?

As for the rubbish, you can expect to receive a new bill from a separate refuse authority. Fortunately its unlikely to be for 630 Euros.

[/quote]

Ah - I have compared them. The major difference is the rubbish (I await my new bill with interest! Nothing about any change has arrived in the post thus far, but "they" have a habit of witholding bad news 'til the last possible), but excluding this there is a drop of amout 4% across the board. Ratable value appears unchanged - who makes these things up!!??

Efficiency savings from the New Era of Sarkozy perhaps? [6]

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[quote user="londoneye"]I also find it hard to believe that adding something as essential (in these times) as one bathroom where none existed previously should indeed justify such an increase[/quote]

Each property is rated according to its potential "rentable" value (i.e. how must could it be rented for?) for their location.

The rates are based on a "comfort" scale which has not been updated since the 70s, when having 1 bathroom and 1 toilet was the norm and anything

beyond, a luxury...

There has been talk about a revision, but it's probably way down on the list of priorities...

As things stand, a property with no bathroom has very low rentable value, a property with 1 bathroom and 1 toilet is more rentable, and a property with more, even more so.

If you add central heating or more bedroom space or a pool, the property rentable value increases accordingly and so do the taxes foncières.

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Why would both increase please?

Because the taxes are applied to an assumed rental value of the property.

So if you were going to rent out your house , the taxes should, in theory, increase by the same proportion as your rent would increase as a result of your improvements.

You wouldn't expect much rent for a house in poor condition with no facilities, but now its modernised you would expect more. So you also pay more taxes.

You can see on the bills how your value compares with the rest of your commune. Our little one up , one down cottage was rated at 50% of the average, our new-build 3 bed detached, gets hit for double the village average.

 

 

 

 

/

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thansk BJSLIV - just checked.   If it is the column commune then apparently my small cottage with one bedroom and one bathroom is 263% better than the average, if, on the other hand, it is inter-communalite then my property is only 175% better.   They are having a laugh now frankly.    Every neighbour in my little village, with sole exception of myself, has central heating for a start, and at least one bathroom.

Time to make that phone call tomorrow !!!!!!!!!!!

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[quote user="londoneye"]

Every neighbour in my little village, with sole exception of myself, has central heating for a start, and at least one bathroom.

[/quote]Yes, but have they told the appropriate authorities?  We were having this discussion at dinner last night.  2 couples have added rooms, bathrooms and central heating to their houses (one English/Tunisian, the other French).  They thought that we were, quite frankly, bonkers to have told anybody that we were making similar changes.  ("If it's in an existing space within your house, who's going to know?...." - their words, not mine!)
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You are probably right.   When the form came, I felt obliged to fill it in honestly, as I suppose I do with all forms I guess.    Again, I suppose it highlights the point which is frequently made on this forum that the dishonesty of other people (whatever their nationality) does impact on those who are honest.     Hence, I believe the sentiment expressed by some of wanting to 'shop' those who are either not conducting their affairs in a legal way, or not being totally honest.      Not something I would easily bring myself to do, but you start to understand the temptation !

Anyway, as you advised before, I will give them a call just to make sure that it is not a genuine error, or misunderstanding about the sumptious nature of our spacious accommodation !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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It's no different to UK, you can do what you like until you either get found out or decide to to sell which is when the problems start and you begin to feel a little less clever [;-)]

If selling it is part of the Notaires job to ensure all due taxes have been paid so if you have undeclared improvements then you would have collude with your buyer to lie or, if they didn't want to play the game, pay up in retrospect.

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[quote user="cooperlola"]  2 couples have added rooms, bathrooms and central heating to their houses (one English/Tunisian, the other French).  They thought that we were, quite frankly, bonkers to have told anybody that we were making similar changes.  [/quote]

Which is why IMHO the 50% tax rebate on, say, the purchase of a wood burner is so cunning - if you want to save on your income tax then it is a roundabout way of informing the authorities of improvements and your tax fonc and tax d'hab might go up.

Sue

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But WHY should there even be a "roundabout way" of informing the authorities of improvements. If you move to someone else's country and live there, surely you have an obligation to observe their way of life and, more importantly, their tax laws?  You are a guest here after all, albeit a self-invited one. I don't think much of guests who abuse my hospitality.  I don't know about you................?

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when i had my extension built and filled H1 form out my taxes went up, when i told the neighbours about it they said i should have keep quiet,who was going to know, its a hamlet of 5 houses in the middle of nowhere,so apart from the post women theres not many visitors, but would the tax people have found out when the builder paid the tva on the money, do the builders have to give the address of the house they are working on
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[quote user="cooperlola"]2 couples have added rooms, bathrooms and central heating to their houses (one English/Tunisian, the other French).  They thought that we were, quite frankly, bonkers to have told anybody that we were making similar changes[/quote]

If staying in the same house for a generation or more, as many French have traditionally done, it's not hard to see why they would not bother volunteering changes. Outside of being grassed up who indeed is going to know [;-)]

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[quote user="spg"]

[quote user="cooperlola"]  2 couples have added rooms, bathrooms and central heating to their houses (one English/Tunisian, the other French).  They thought that we were, quite frankly, bonkers to have told anybody that we were making similar changes.  [/quote]

Which is why IMHO the 50% tax rebate on, say, the purchase of a wood burner is so cunning - if you want to save on your income tax then it is a roundabout way of informing the authorities of improvements and your tax fonc and tax d'hab might go up.

Sue

[/quote]Quite.  As you see, Sweet 17, I was not just talking about immigrants here.  Ultimately the honest, wherever they were born, subsidise the dishonest.  That's what annoys me.  But I still can't bring myself to "shop" anybody, even though at times I am sorely tempted.  Grrr.
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I know what you mean about "shopping" people.  It feels too much  like sneakiness.  But it does irritate when you could see they always seem to be having the most and nicest holidays, shopping all the damn time and driving around in expensive vehicles - all the things for which I would have to carefully work out the cost to be sure they were affordable

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[quote user="sweet 17"]I know what you mean about "shopping" people.  It feels too much  like sneakiness.  [/quote]

But, perhaps, we should 'shop' such people; if we do not then we are condoning the (illegal) actions of these people by default and they will feel free to continue. 

IIRC Teamed Up used to say that, in her opinion, French people, in general, did not have such loyalties and would inform on neighbours, wrongdoers etc without compunction, or fear of retribution. Perhaps that's where we are going wrong...

Sue

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