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Impending Fuel Crisis in France?


JJ
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I don't think they have red diesel here Ernie, well the farmers don't anyway. A few weeks back I was talking to my oil man about farm supplies being dyed in the UK and he said the farmers get the same fuel as we do and pay for it just like us but they can claim back a large proportion of the tax as I believe can the fishermen.

 Blocking the ports and oil refineries is just ridiculous, all that is going to do is push the price higher, mind you, I cannot see people panic buying,  it has reached 1.40€ a litre here in the supermarkets, the local garages are far higher, but petrol does not seem to have risen pro rata or am I imagining that the price gap between diesel and petrol is narrowing?

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Well my heating oil is most definately red [;-)]

I can't argue with what you say Ron but if the farmers and fishermen don't use red too then what it the point of it. The only thing I can see is that it's to deter saps like me cheating by putting in our cars, can you think of any other reason ?

Pay and claim back hey, sounds suspiciously like a pointless process with no obvious puropse but to keep another handful of foncieres in a job [blink] [:)]

 

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Nt imagination Ron nor a price gap either.

Diesel now costs the same as SP95 here, I reckon if you give it a couple of weeks there will be a price gap again but a negative one!

Bio-ethanol is currently 80cts a litre, A French friend came round today whose Renault Laguna has been using it for the last 3 months so I grilled him on the subject, cost of conversion was €400 by a local trader, he reckons that it uses about 15% more fuel than on petrol and said he has already amortised the cost after doing more than 10K Km.

I havnt had a chance to check his amortisation figures but even paying €1.44 a litre my Skoda diesel is more economical to run as I get between 55 and 65mpg dependant on whether I am towing a fully (over)laden trailer, the writing is on the wall though for diesels I believe, tomorrow I am going to check the GPL price as it is more widely available than bio-ethanol.

I also recieved a very ill concieved chain letter type E-mail suggesting that all drivers stop buying fuel from Elf, Total and I think Shell and switch to supermarkets, just who do they think supplies the supermarkets? That said we do need a French equivalent to that Welsh farmer, I wonder if he is still under surveillance?

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[quote user="ErnieY"]

Well my heating oil is most definately red [;-)]

I can't argue with what you say Ron but if the farmers and fishermen don't use red too then what it the point of it. The only thing I can see is that it's to deter saps like me cheating by putting in our cars, can you think of any other reason ?

Pay and claim back hey, sounds suspiciously like a pointless process with no obvious puropse but to keep another handful of fonciere's in a job [blink] [:)]

[/quote]

Maybe its your rusty tank Ernie!!  There are different grades of fuel and heating oil, one might be reddish, but its not dyed so that it can be checked.  Farmers use the same diesel as the rest of us.

The purpose is that only registered farmers can claim back the tax paid, far more efficient I would suggest than having hundreds of HMRC staff checking lorries and vans for red diesel[blink].

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Plastic tanks tend not to rust Ron [;-)]

AFAIK auto diesel and most heating oils (kerosene etc) are virtually colourless so why this stuff is red then I have no idea. [8-)]

Anyone ?

Do HMRC still check private vehicles for red diesel ?

I suppose they do and although I can remember occassionally seeing roadside checks going on I don't think I've seen one in the last 10 or 15 years. With the current popularity of diesel cars I'd have thought that checks would be more frequent not less.

 

 

 

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Well if it not dyed Ron, why do my deliveries come with a note to say that I must keep the receipt for 3 years and present it on demand to the Douanes and that the fuel must not be used in a motor vehicle (cannot remember the precise definition).  Paraffin and Diesel are naturally colourless to yellowy - in no way do hydrocarbons have any form of red colour.  So de facto, red fuel = dye/colourant added
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Can I take it from this thread that when I am back in France in a few weeks time, there is no longer any point in arriving with an ampty tank to save myself a few bob by buying French diesel?

With the awful exchange rate, it sounds as though diesel is about the same price either side of the water.

This week in Norwich, it is selling at £1.19 at Asda and Tesco, £1.22 at Shell and £1.26 at BP. (And I believe it is considerably dearer than that in the London/south coast areas)

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So you get red central heating fuel in France then Ernie? Who supplies that then?

The fuel supplied to farms in the UK used to be red, but all our fuel for the heating here is yellow as Andy describes because it seems it is dyed with Solvent Yellow 124 which like red diesel can be detected.

I have never seen any notes with fuel bills about keeping receipts for customs perhaps its a local thing?  They have certainly had a crack down on using red diesel in the UK Ernie, particularly in East Anglia and the Midlands if reports on local TV news stations are to be believed. 

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My heating oil comes from the local supplier in the village. I don't ask him for red or anything special, I just order a delivery and it turns up. He's the same supplier the previous owners used to use so obviously knows what fuel to bring.

Like you Ron I haven't seen any such notes or warnings but then I don't study the receipts that closely, I'm in too much of a state of shock at the price [:-))]

East Anglia was my old stomping ground but as I say, I haven't seen a roadside check for years, lorry checks yes, quite frequently, but that's the DoT doing safety checks, but checks on private cars, no.

Frankly I wouldn't fancy putting domestic heating fuel in my car anyway, red or otherwise. It doesn't contain the lubricants the injection system needs so could only be used as a dilution anyway. For the amount of diesel we actually get through on a day to day basis I'd rather not risk it.

Mel: it is marginal now but can still be cheaper in France if you buy wisely i.e. get off the motorway and pay with cash, a French debit card or a UK card which imposes no charges. Finding convenient supermarket petrol on a motorway trip is a very useful function of many SatNavs. Sometimes the detour is no more than a couple of km so well worth while. In UK there is (was) a book called "Just off the motorway" which showed you the whole motorway network and what was available near to each junction, petrol, supermarkets, pubs, restaurants etc. and I wonder if such a useful publication exists in France ?

 

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We have regular checks by the douannes here on all the roads regarding cheap diesel.Even my OH in his big van was asked where he bought his diesel and then they tested it to confirm. Red diesel does exist here I can tell you or the equivalent cheap stuff for the farmers and fishermen.
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[quote user="Mel"]

Can I take it from this thread that when I am back in France in a few weeks time, there is no longer any point in arriving with an ampty tank to save myself a few bob by buying French diesel?

With the awful exchange rate, it sounds as though diesel is about the same price either side of the water.

This week in Norwich, it is selling at £1.19 at Asda and Tesco, £1.22 at Shell and £1.26 at BP. (And I believe it is considerably dearer than that in the London/south coast areas)

[/quote]

Still marginally cheaper even at E1.40 (approx GBP1.12)

Just of interest, cost of a gallon of diesel has risen here by 36% in one week. Its now c. E0.76 per litre. Its 3 x the price of petrol.

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Supplies beginning to run out here in Brittany with the blockade at the refineries, everyone is panic buying and my neighbour who grows many acres of veg is stocking up on the red diesel for his tractors.
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[quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Mel"][/quote]


Just of interest, cost of a gallon of diesel has risen here by 36% in one week. Its now c. E0.76 per litre. Its 3 x the price of petrol.
[/quote]

You are just trying, and succeeding to upset us all now[:D]

I remember when I travelled through Venezuela in 2004 that petrol cost the Bolivar equivalent a few cents of a US dollar per gallon, once a month it was free all weekend and loads of people travelled accross the borders to fill up but also spending money in the local economy at the same time. In fact inflation was so high that everyone wanted US dollars so if you had them you could double or treble the official exchange rate and buy gas even cheaper.

The most popular cars over there were big "yank-tank" gas guzzlers of the 70's and 80's.

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Yes  definatly Red fuel here in the south too. The same garage that delivers the stuff by the tanker has a pump on his forcourt which says something to the tune of " not for domestic vehicles "  I know it is red as I have wached vans pull up and fill clear plastic jerry cans with the stuff....I assume it is used for generators and garfem mowers.
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In the UK at least there are other invisible markers in the Red diesel.  I knew the customs man on the Road Fuel Testing Unit many years ago.  His 'patch' was roughly the southern half of England.  He showed me how you could take a bucket of Red, pour it through charcoal and get White out.  The testing kit he had easily picked out the other markers though. Not that I think it would do your engine much good after that.  As a routine check he had a plastic bottle and a tube which he used to dip truck tanks for a quick look at the ports etc.  He used to do diesel cars (Mercs and Land Rovers were favourite) at County Fairs and around boating marinas too, anywhere that there was easy access to Red.  Some people can't resist the temptation all though I can understand it especially when the chances of being caught are so remote. Wouldn't do it myself as apart from being just wrong I  know I would be caught first time and I prefer to sleep without worrying about such things.

Diesel has shot up to €1.26 in the Grand Duchy but no queues of French vehicles at the filling stations (yet)

BTW, did you know that Luxembourg has the 3 largest filling stations in the whole of Europe?  Thousands of trucks divert quite a long way to fill their tanks here, its becoming a bit of a problem causing the motorways to be backed up with trucks waiting to fill up, bit like Operation Stack I suppose.

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[quote user="powerdesal"]Maybe its time for this.......

http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/case_studies/homebrew_biodiesel.pdf


[/quote]Nice idea but I doubt you'll find a chippie these days with a problem getting rid of their old fat, let alone pay you to take it away [blink]

Actually, if you think it through, bio-diesel has to be the way forward.

  • Demand for oil = higher prices = demand for alternative.
  • Land and crops diverted to the production of bio-fuel = less food.
  • Less food = higher demand = higher prices.
  • Higher prices = more dying from hunger = less people.
  • Less people = less demand.
  • Less demand = lower prices
  • The circle is complete.

The obvious answer then is for us all to go out and buy the biggest gas guzzling obscenity we can find to accelerate the process [:-))]

As frivolous as the above is I read somewhere that the population of the world is about 1/3 higher than resources can viably support so perhaps it's not as frivolous as it seems [:(]

IMO a great many of worlds woes are down to the fact that we tamper with the laws of nature and of natural selection and do so at our peril.

Standing by for the flaming !

 

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[quote user="Ron Avery"]

So you get red central heating fuel in France then Ernie? Who supplies that then?

[/quote]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

My heating oil comes from the local supplier in

the village. I don't ask him for red or anything special, I just order

a delivery and it turns up. He's the same supplier the previous owners

used to use so obviously knows what fuel to bring.

[/quote]

Our 'fioul' is also red, delivered from Auchan (fioul ordinaire) for the last five years.  I know it's red because there is a glass 'filter' thingy in between the oil tank and the boiler and I can clearly see it's red.

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