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Who is being unreasonable?


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That's almost exactly what I said BaF...

(EDIT:  or rather it was almost exactly what I said, before you edited your post)

... but that was before Ernie reminded us that, at the time if posting, the OP admitted to being very upset.  It could well be that the story was typed in haste, and so may not be entirely accurate.

Let's do as Ernie suggests, and wait until the OP posts again.

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[quote user="Cat"]

There are quite a few things in the original post that I don't fully understand.    

If the house is in France then it is (as someone has already pointed out) the buyer, not the seller, who pays the agents fees.  If the agent can get you a full price offer on your house as quickly has as seems to have done, what difference does it make to the seller what his fees are?

[/quote]

That is a very good point that evaded me Cat.

If the OP did not have so many previous posts I would have said that it was a wind-up.

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This is the original poster here: firstly, this is definitely not a wind-up = perhaps we wish it was! No, it is deadly serious.

I cannot for the life of me imagine how many of you who also live in France, have the BUYER pay the agents' fees.

Certainly not in this neck of the woods! Unheard of. Perhaps it is the influence of being sandwiched between two borders of Switzerland but it is ONLY the seller who pays the agent's commission hereabouts, between 5-6%.

I hear what you have all said, have taken it on board. Some of you have rather missed the point, or perhaps it was not clear enough. Anyway, the prospective buyers are coming in 1.5 hours and then we have to see what happens from there on. If there is an outcome, obviously will post again.

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Just for your information, I live 45km from Evian, and when we were buying 2 years ago, we had to pay the agency fees.  We didn't come across any agency were the buyer did not have to pay the fees (and we saw quite a few houses with different agencies).  Sometimes it wasn't obvious as the cost was always included in the price of the house.  In the end, the agency did reduce its fee so our offer would be accepted but this was at the very end of negoiations and was proposed by the agency, not us.

Having said that, I get the feeling that the market in 74 around the border is more stagnant that it was 3 years ago, esp at the upper end of the market, between the general economic downturn and the fact that the Swiss Franc is not worth as much in France.  So maybe some agencies are more willing to be flexible but it might be because they are desparate to make a sale....it is certainly heard of around here to make the buyer pay!

Good luck with the buyers....

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A similar situation to Pangur...

We are in the process of buying (46) . The house was priced/advertised at an amount that included the agency fees.

We made a reduced offer based on this total price. The seller agreed to a reduced price but not as deep as we wanted. Negotiations continued and the immobilier agreed to reduce their fees a bit as well.

So the bottom line was the seller got  a price he was prepared to accept. The immobilier made the sale and got their fee but but a bit less than they originally planned. We are buying at a price acceptable to us.

On the basis of situations where the immobilier fee is included in the advertised price if the advertised price was obtained and the immobilier reduced their fee, the seller would be getting more for the house than they originally asked for.  Or is my logic wrong?

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Sheila, around here (46) it is definitely the norm for the buyer to pay the agency fees. From the other posts I would imagine the same goes for them.

You could of course negotiate your sale price if you want to ensure the sale. You asked who is being unreasonable and who is right and who is wrong. There is no right and wrong. It is just a question of how much the buyers and sellers agree on for a sale. This also applies to your transaction with the agent. If you don't like it, don't accept the deal. I don't suppose you would offer to pay more than 5% if the agent had been trying to find you a buyer for months. It really makes no difference how long it took. You asked for a reduction, fair enough, and got a 'no' . It is up to you then to decide if you want the buyer or not. If the buyer asks you for a reduction what are you going to say to them?

good luck

Danny

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I think some may be getting bogged down a little with the concept of the agents fees.

In the majority of cases the price you pay includes the fee which is then deducted from the net sum passed to the vendor in which case it could be argued that the seller has paid it, albeit out of an inflated asking price adjusted to cover it.

On the other hand however, as it is the buyer who is actually parting with the money then you might argue that he is paying the fee.

 It's as much a case of semantics as tangible sums of money [:)]

 

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Perhaps semantics but

When someone sells a house and they are paying capital gains (plus value ) tax because it is a maison secondaire there are several allowances which are deducted.

These deductions include notaires fees paid at the time of acquisition and estate agency fees paid at the time of acquisition

So the impots recognise that the buyer pays the estate agents fees

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To those kindly souls who have taken the trouble and time to respond:

looks as thought we have sold..... the fun begins at the Notaire's office tomorrow.

Will post again and let you all know what happens. Definitely, but definitely us [sellers] who have to pay agent's fees of 5%!

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[quote user="Evianers"]Definitely, but definitely us [sellers] who have to pay agent's fees of 5%![/quote]From which we are left to deduce that the price your agent advertised at excluded his fees ?

Maybe that's why he found a buyer so quickly [I]

 

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Two points: this is definitely not a maison secondaire - it is our principal and only residence.

Secondly, would that Evian were like the rest of France and the buyer has to pay the agent's fees.

But it is not......... so a huge amount comes out of our pockets. Oh well, better to have sold than not!

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I think it is custom and practice which dictates whether agents include fees in advertised prices or not, not law, although I believe they have to state which it is.

In all candour I still don't see why you feel so bad about it.

You have a full price buyer whom you might not have had if the price had been 5% higher and if the fee had been included you could well have found them making an offer of 5-10% less instead.

Offer a prayer that nothing goes wrong and move on [:D]

 

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Is the fee included in the agents advertised price? I.E. do you consider that when you receive the net price that is you that has paid the fee or is it advertised at the sale price and you, not the buyer will be invoiced the 5% seperately?

I am sure that this confusing "who actually pays?" has been discussed at length before.

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Our heartfelt thanks to one and all - although we do not perhaps agree with all the comments but that's life.

Today we have signed the compromis de vente. The rather obnoxious and arrogant estate agent was present.

We smiled sweetly at each other: when the question by the notaire came "how much are the agency fees"? he replied immediately "5%".

Que sera sera!

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Hooray!  You're now on the home stretch (sorry, no pun intended).

Just think how fab it will be when you are in your new home and the 5% will seem neither here nor there.  As they say, don't sweat the small stuff.

Best wishes for the rest of the move!

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