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Would anyone move back to the UK??


Fiona
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I wouldn't want to return to live in the UK. There's nothing wrong with it as such, just that even with the huge charges we have to pay as a self employed people here, and the far lower income, I still reckon we've come out ahead on the deal.

I spent all my time when I worked for someone else travelling to the extent that I hardly ever saw my young children; here I spend loads of time with them every day. Plus I like the village life, the quiet and the extent to which we are both closely involved with community life here. I've long liked France - my father was a great francophile and we spent a lot of holidays here and I always had a vague idea of living here and finally learning the language properly so when it came to downshifting this seemed like a logical place to go. We ended up with far more property and land in a far prettier village than we could have afforded in the UK, which I will admit did influence things a little.

These are not the only reasons why we came, but they are the easiest to explain. We've been here for almost six years. Our eldest daughter (9) has some hazy memories of London, the middle one remembers nothing and the youngest was born here. I wouldn't want to move them, or, rather, the elder two, to a completely different culture and education system at their age. They think they're French, for heavens sake.

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I would never return either. If I did then I would have to get a job again. I retired here four years ago at the age of 46, but would not be able to live in the UK on the small pension that I get.

Here every day is a learning curve and I have the time to do the things that I want. In the UK every day would be a mundane (but probably well paid) job and I would have little time for myself. At least here I am a time millionaire.

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Fiona,

The majority of the members of this Forum are probably retirees with a pension and investment income and therefore don't have the major challenge you face and that is can you make a living in France? The reason for the apparent very high return rate to the UK is in the main due to money, so the comparisons between lifestyles in France and the UK are somewhat irrelavent.

However, and this is the biggy, we are going into the worst recession for decades and you have what appears to be a secure job. Boring or not you might be extremely grateful for this in a few months time if the economic doomsayers are correct, so think very carefully before you resign. The economic predictions for France are generally no better than the UK.

If you are in secure employment I would put your plans on hold for a little while, as otherwise you may put your dreams at risk by bad timing. 

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Hi Sprogster, thanks for your comments and I understand what you are saying but I should point out that I am not actually in a secure job, I am an IT contractor.  I took vol redundancy from my employer of 7 years nearly 3 years ago now after I went back to work after having my second.  The journey into London was a nightmare and I just couldn't juggle it all - I was not able to reduce my hours so I chose to go.  Ever since then I have contracted - I choose to work as close to home as I can which helps - and it has given us the chance to save more.  The contract I am working on was initially only 3 months but 9 months later I'm still here but will definitely have my contract ended when the project finishes in Feb.  So it's not really an issue for me.  The earning a living is obviously a major concern - we can only do our best and see how well we do.  I have a contact based in France who potentially may have some home based IT work for me as a freelancer.  However, my OH needs to find something.  He has become totally demoralised with the work situation in the building trade in the UK so he desperately needs the chance to start afresh - a new challenge!

Bob - I love that expression, a time millionaire!  It is the one thing money cannot buy and the one thing we need more than anything (along with oxygen, food and love!!)

Rif-raf - I could totally relate to your reasons...

thanks everyone

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Fiona,

You also need to look into the French health cover issues, following the major changes earlier this year, in terms of the period of your entitlement to an E106 and the need to obtain comprehensive private medical insurance once your E106 has run out, if at that stage you and your other half are still looking for employment in France.

Also by moving to France you will be foregoing the safety net of unemployment benefit and income support, non of which would be available to you until you have been in employment in France and contributed to their social security system. The French are far stricter than the UK on incomers,, including EU Citizens, claiming benefits and health care support.

Lastly, I am not sure the French building trade is in a much healthier position than the UK at the moment.

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I appreciate your concerns Sprogster but I feel you are being a little negative towards me, almost trying to persuade us not to move!  I don't know what else I can do - yes there are a huge number of pitfalls and I realise that a lot of people end up moving back for financial reasons but to say that the comparisons of lifestyles is irrelevant is simply not true..........it is completely relevant to me.  My current lifestyle is mundane, tiring and full of stress - I have gone hell for leather over the last 2 years work wise so that we have a financial cushion to move with.  If we are careful we could live without earning for about 18 months on what we have saved (I have no intention of doing so though), we have a mortgage free house which we will rent to provide us with some investment income, we intend to rent initially before we buy so that if it doesn't work out we don't have the added stress of trying to sell.  I don't know what else we could do to prepare and plan for this!!!  I am not prepared to wait any longer - otherwise I will miss the time window for my children settling in ok.  Ultimately they are who we are doing this for - and if they don't settle then we would move.  I want to give them a safe, happy childhood, and I want to be able to afford the sort of property that I could never afford here.  The only flaw in our plan is we don't have employment to move to - but does that mean we should be condemmed to remain somewhere where we are not happy, living a life that we are not happy with, just because we don't have all the boxes ticked?  I really just wanted to get people's view on lifestyle and if they would choose to return to the UK........

thank you nonetheless though...

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Fiona

At the end of the day the decision is and can only be yours.

Advice from forums, friends and others should be sifted, accepted and bourne in mind, or rejected, or simply taken with a pinch of salt.

There are pitfalls but, surely, that applies to almost everything we do.

If you want to do it then go for it...........................

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[quote user="Sprogster"]

Fiona,

You also need to look into the French health cover issues, following the major changes earlier this year, in terms of the period of your entitlement to an E106 and the need to obtain comprehensive private medical insurance once your E106 has run out, if at that stage you and your other half are still looking for employment in France.

Also by moving to France you will be foregoing the safety net of unemployment benefit and income support, non of which would be available to you until you have been in employment in France and contributed to their social security system. The French are far stricter than the UK on incomers,, including EU Citizens, claiming benefits and health care support.

Lastly, I am not sure the French building trade is in a much healthier position than the UK at the moment.

[/quote]

So you don't have to be a French citizen to claim the dole then?

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Absolutely Bugbear........we have made the decision, and have done so for a while and, as you say, all advice is welcome and suitably processed.  I was just really curious to see who among you were remaining in France through choice or not as the case may be....

 

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Fiona,

You have done all the research you can, you seem a lot more prepared that quite a few people who have already made the move.

And once you have the 'moving to France' bug in your head, there is very little you can do until you actually try it.

OK so if it does not work out, then you have an escape strategy, which we did not have.

If you decide not to do it, then you may spend the rest of your life regretting it.

Life is a gamble, we were lucky it paid off for us, and there is no way we would want to go back.

So Bonne Chance.

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Fiona,

Apologies if I came over unduly negative, but one of the values with this type of forum is you pick up on issues that otherwise would be difficult to ascertain.

As previously mentioned, most contributors to this Forum tend to be retirees and or second home owners, which reflects the demographics of most Brits who have homes in France. Therefore, our opinions as to the lifestyle comparisons are probably going to be very different from when we were your age with young children.

That said I would say in your circumstances go for it, as you don't have children at a critical school age and you have a good exit strategy, by keeping your house in the UK. After a year of chilling out in France you might feel different and if the job situation does not work out there are always other countries such as Canada, Australia or New Zealand, which is where I would consider going if I was a young professional with small children and could get a visa.

Bon chance!

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I'd already posted here: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/2/1459925/ShowPost.aspx#1459925 before I read this thread, so our feelings are probably summed up there.  So we're getting by, and generally are very happy living in France.  I've no intention of going back, but should I shuffle off this mortal coil first, I've no doubt my wife would return to the UK to be with her family.  It's expensive living here, but on balance the quality of life for us is far, far better.  Had we not jumped ship last year, the present circumstances in both countries would have totally precluded it.  We're glad we did what we did when we did, and the way we look at our reasons for doing so can really be summed up as: 'our country abandoned us, not the other way round' - no doubt controversial, but true.

 

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If I could sell I'd be off like a shot...and I am fluent in French.

I don't understand the often quoted 'quality of life'

In the UK I had a village cottage with the sort of life-style people quote here as being 'French'.

In France I live in a tiny room infested by rats, cockroaches and pigeons, surrounded by  noisy immigrant neighbours in an area where there have been 3 murders in the last year.

There is a feeling that it is unsafe to go out after 7 at night, and all the houses have burglar grills in the windows and even in front of the front doors

In the local paper today there was a report of 5 cases of child rape.

The falsely- vaunted health system in falling apart because there is no proper budgeting.

The roads are choked with traffic, especially the A9., but it can take an hour to get across town.

It is impossible to get a job..

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[quote user="Sprogster"]

there are always other countries such as Canada, Australia or New Zealand, which is where I would consider going if I was a young professional with small children and could get a visa.

[/quote]

If I were planning on a permanent move with children those destinations would be my preferred choice too.  Ours is a second home - and we have no intention of it being anything more.  As we have said in a previous thread, there are as many positives for the UK as I have seen cited for France.  Too many people compare their life in a big city in the UK with rural life in France - they are not comparing like with like.  Personally, we find France a great escape for short periods but not for long term living.  France is expensive, bureaucratic, has as many political and social problems as the UK....and we would die of boredom!

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Fiona if you have a dream, then live it! so what if find out that you want to move back to England, people are forever, moving from one area to another, why not from one Country to another.  Having done your research you will know that what is good and not so good about France, all Countries have a bit of good and a bit of bad in them, just like us folk.  If you are in IT you might be able to get some work from England which you can do while you are in France, extra pennies are always helpful.  It would be sensible to rent a property rather than buy one for the first year, but you might already have a property here, I have not read all the emails.  I would go back to England if my husband died before me, I would feel the need for comfort and familar surroundings, but I also think that we might go back when we get a older, as the house and garden get too much for us, but that will not stop us shedding tears at the big wrench it will be to leave our home and our little corner of France.  Good luck, let us know how you get on when you settle down in France.

Jeanne  

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[quote user="Scooby"]  As we have said in a previous thread, there are as many positives for the UK as I have seen cited for France.  Too many people compare their life in a big city in the UK with rural life in France - they are not comparing like with like. [/quote]

Exactly, Scooby! Just what I've written in a similar thread on another forum. France is a beautiful country and I love my time there, but I feel exactly the same about the UK.

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[quote user="Scooby"][quote user="Sprogster"]

there are always other countries such as Canada, Australia or New Zealand, which is where I would consider going if I was a young professional with small children and could get a visa.

[/quote]

If I were planning on a permanent move with children those destinations would be my preferred choice too.  Ours is a second home - and we have no intention of it being anything more.  As we have said in a previous thread, there are as many positives for the UK as I have seen cited for France.  Too many people compare their life in a big city in the UK with rural life in France - they are not comparing like with like.  Personally, we find France a great escape for short periods but not for long term living.  France is expensive, bureaucratic, has as many political and social problems as the UK....and we would die of boredom!
[/quote]

How I agree.

I bought my French house 15 years ago intending to retire to it. Circumstances change and that plan became untenable.

When I am in France I meet with British permanent residents. Some are happily integrated into local life; others seem to live still in Britain, surrounded by France. The latter group is characterised by poor linguistic skills, satellite tv and frequent reunions around dining tables during which they spend their time excoriating Britain. Many of them are very nice people, warm and generous, but there is some underlying bitterness which they cannot (or will not) explain. And every now and again, a couple will disappear - gone back "home" - to be replaced by another.

In my French village seven houses are British owned, four by permanent residents. Of these four houses, in the last five years, three have changed hands (one twice) as their owners have returned to Britain.

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I concur Scooby, in that more often than not a poster is comparing life between urban/city life in the UK and remote rural areas of France, overlooking the fact that the reason rural areas of France are so quiet is that there are few employment opportunities and many people have moved to French cities to find work!

The other big lifestyle issue of course is the language barrier, in that many Brits moving to France assume that simply by being there they will absorb the French language. In reality, becoming fluent in French to the point you can be employable in a skilled job is a huge challenge and dare I say not achievable by everyone despite best efforts, as people have differing natural abilities to learn another language, which tends to deterioate with age as I am discovering!

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I wholeheartedly agree, Scooby and Sprogster. Whether to live in France or UK is above all a personal decision, and I have always failed to understand why there are some people who like to turn it into a sort of "competition" where every aspect of life in the UK is minutely dissected and vilified in an attempt to demonstrate (or justify?) a preference for life in France.

I love spending time in France. I've lived there in the past and feel I have a pretty good understanding (although a FAR less than exhaustive knowledge) of the ups and downs involved.

Reading Francophone forums over the past few weeks and months, it's clear that there are many people "feeling the pinch" in one way or another. It's equally clear that, for some, the threat of looming unemployment could be a catalyst for change and will give them an opportunity to decide on a move.

I wonder, deep down, however, whether there's anyone out there who would say, hand on heart, that the advice or opinion of complete strangers on the internet has been a deciding factor for them in making a move to another country, be it France or elsewhere? Yes, it may open people's eyes to things they might have overlooked, but would it ever provoke a real change of heart?

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Been here too long now to consider the UK as "home" any more with no feelings whatsoever regarding a return or actually what goes on over there now. Nice for an odd visit every ten years or so to see the cultural and shopping differences like any holiday destination, but France is our home and will be until we die as we have invested far more here both in terms of money and blood,sweat and tears to go back there.
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I have always failed to understand why there are some people who like to turn it into a sort of "competition" where every aspect of life in the UK is minutely dissected and vilified in an attempt to demonstrate (or justify?) a preference for life in France.

Well I sincerely hope that was not directed at me as that was most certainly not my intention.  Our decision has been made and has been for some time now.  I was simply trying to engage in discussion with people about whether or not they would choose to stay in France or move.  There is so much emphasis on work and earning a living etc - and someone made the point that a comparison of a rural lifestyle in France with an urban lifestyle in the Uk is irrelevant.  Well to a certain extent I disagree and I think a point is being missed here.  For me it is important to leave the earning a living debate out of it - lets pretend for a moment that jobs are easy to come by in either country.  What I am trying to establish are people's thoughts on where they would actually choose to move to to raise a young family.  For us we could never afford the sort of property that we could in France so that does factor into the equation. 

 


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Fiona,

Perhaps you have confused us by asking (from your original post)

[quote user="Fiona"]So any thoughts/comments/opinions on life in France versus life in the UK (good or bad) would be most welcome....[/quote]

but now say your question is

[quote user="Fiona"]What I am trying to establish are people's thoughts on where they would actually choose to move to to raise a young family. [/quote]

[8-)]

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