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[quote user="andyh4"]

1 paying voluntary contributions will top up her UK state pension.

2 it will also allow her to get a E121 in her own right at 60 - which he may then piggy back onto

3 it entiles her to return to the UK to receive NHS treatment.

[/quote]

Point 3 is definitely incorrect. Otherwise all the hoo-hah at the end of last year about inactive British and their French healthcare would have been avoided.

The voluntary NI contributions merely preserve and top-up pension rights and have no bearing on NHS treatment.

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Coming from a different angle

The ex police officer was forced to retire at the age of 55, and immediately his income was halved. As someone else says he would be on a pension of approx 15,000 pounds per year minus income tax ,which actually equates to approx 1100 pounds per month.

How could he live on 1100 pounds a month taking into account council tax, electricity, gas etcetc.

He was forced out of the country because of the policy, there are not many jobs around for 55yr old ex police constables, but is forced to pay income tax in the UK without receiving one single benefit, is that fair. 

 

And

No one ever mentions that the 200 pounds goes to every one over 60 yrs of age residing in the UK ,millionaires, people working, people who have never paid a penny into the system.  

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So the problem, as I intimated in an earlier post, is with the double taxation agreement rather than the winter fuel allowance. I suggest that had he concentrated on that grievance he might have got a more sympathetic hearing.

Mind you, we have a good friend in France who was forced to retire on health grounds from the private sector (banking) and although he gets what we thought was quite a generous pension as a result, it falls far short of £15,000 pa.

 

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As a train driver, my OH contributes to his pension fund. The difference was that originally he was part of the government pension fund (BR), upon privatisation, his pension went into the big world to be administered unto by fund accountants.

We calculated that if we retired in the UK, on his pension, paid into for 34 years + top up where possible, we could not afford to stay in the UK - our council tax for a small 2-bed terrace is over 1K, upon reaching 65 Chris's pension will be around 2.5K, because it is designed to decrease, year on year. Because he has paid into the BR fund all these years, he is considered as 'contracted out'. So, no bonuses etc, all he has is what he has paid. So, stock market fall = pension fall. Admitted there is the lump sum, but that will be needed for living on, house repairs etc.

Oh yes, and I forgot to mention that when the Government split from BR and privatised the railway, they took a lump sum from the pension fund, leaving a 12mill hole - which the workers have had to plug!

So, we want to move to France to be able to maintain a stable level of income - a smaller home with a smaller council tax, a bit of land to be able to grow our own veg.... Oh yes, we have paid our pension in, so why not be entitled to benefits - as you are within all EU countries?

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What has happened to you is scandalous, and you are honest about your reasons for wanting to come to France.

I don't think that things are as easy here as they might seem, and if his pension is paid in £ it could be even harder, so I would advise caution.

My equivalent of 'council tax' is 1200 euros a year, not far off yours.

See the costs in many towns in France here

I don't understand the point you and  Ba F make about not being able to 'afford to stay in the UK', however.

Do most OAPs have any option?.

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How many are actually 'forced' to retire from the police or other government occupations at 55 ?

I thought they went mostly voluntarily and as often as not on dubious grounds of 'ill health', God knows it's been discussed here often enough.

I know appearances can be deceiving but our Bob looked pretty fit to me so saying he was 'forced' into retirement is an unsupportable assumption.

Besides, a good number go into these occupations knowing full well that the retirement age is 60 and that there is a better than evens chance that they will be retiring well before that and on guaranteed pensions and where that is so then they should make provision for it.

My personal view on the winter fuel allowance is that if you are a UK taxpayer, resident or not, you should qualify to be means tested to receive it. Not that I'm an out and out fan of means testing because I'm not, it rewards the feckless as well as the needy and acts as a disincentive, but that it the system at present and until it changes all should be equal under it.

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Please do not make rash statements when you do not know the facts.Compulsory retirement age for constables and sergeants was until recently 55 yrs of age. Having completed 30 yrs service.and having paid in 12% of their salary to the pension fund they can retire even if they have not reached 55yrs of age. On reaching 55yrs of age these officers must retire, they cannot continue working even if they wish to therefore they are forced to retire. . As for ill health retirement  approx 33% of all retirals are due to ill health and after a medical examination. so hardly dubious .

Regarding winter fuel allowance my view is that there should be an increase in the OAPension of 200 pounds then the rich would be taxed on it, the poor would not, and people living in Spain France etc would be paid it.

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I certainly agree that winter fuel allowances should only be paid to those who really need it - low incomes etc.

I also think that those who have paid into the pension pot as it were should be receiving the yearly increases - something being discussed  at present - eg when a person leaves their country for another are they entitled to get annual increases. This I believe (I am sure I will be corrected if wrong) is ok for EU cits but not for Thailand etc. (eg non-EU).

I mentioned to NormanH about the problem about not being able to stay in the Uk as we are - many people do not realise that when we took our mortgages out some 20-25 years ago it was all endowment stuff. We were promised that the insurance would more than repay the loan off - but remember the endowment fall last time around the recession hit? So many like us are coming to the end of our mortgages with only half our endowments materializing, so we sell up for the most we can get now and pay off the mortgage plus have a little over. Many pensioners here already own their own homes, hence why they are forced to sell to cover home care, like my mum.

So even though house prices are falling (mainly due to the glut of repossessions we are told).The alternative is to stay until the end of the mortgage, pay off what comes from the endowment, take on a loan to cover the remaining amount and keep working.....

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BaF, Quite a few ex policeman  I have met are doing other jobs, one had completed his 30 years at age 48!

Keni, The problem is that many people thought they were moving to France for a cheaper life have not found it to be so, especially as they are hit by exchange rate fluctuations.

One reason that house prices are falling is the lack of mortgages available...it's not just repossessions

Perhaps the system should be altered but I have little sympathy with the guy on the politics show, anyone emigrating surely has to do their own equation - how much is it worth sacrificing for those extra years of being retired ?

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[quote user="NormanH"]"My personal view on the winter fuel allowance is that if you are a UK taxpayer, resident or not, you should qualify to be means tested to receive it."
I agree with that.
[/quote]

 

The problem with that is that the most deserving cases for winter fuel allowance will not be paying tax as they will be on a low income.

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If they were entitled they would be getting it.

They don't come into that category .

Of course you can argue that the criteria are wrong, either because of the weird demands of where one lives on a certain date and age, or because of a belief that such a benefit should be means-tested.

I don't however think that anybody has said that somebody entitled isn't getting it.

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I have this vision of some poor soul scrunching up his flat cap and asking for a handout.

Means testing? What and appalling thought - to be means tested for entitlement from a pot of funds that you've paid in to. What next, means tested for your state pension, your bus pass, care for the elderly? Hold on, that last one is already being done!

 

 

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Broiling a Flog is the only one who has said it right I think; it should be added to the basic pension for everyone then they would be taxed on it or not as the case may be. Means testing such allowances is nothing short of cruel and vicious, reflecting the government of the day.

It is of course a crazy anomoly that some pensions should be taxed first in the UK;

As to people retiring at 48 or 55, you only retire when you think you have enough to live on reasonably comfortably and should not plan to live off the State if at all possible. The answer is to keep working though perhaps in another job, which means changing attitudes, particularly amongst people who have worked for government and who retire early, expecting to be featherbedded for the rest of their days.

This applies to the whole of Europe at least.

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OK so it was entertainment, and a good wheeze for the journalist.

  • The journalist (dressed in a summer jacket, open shirt) asked the retired person (wearing a 'lets go winter hill walking' jacket but without hat and gloves)   'Do you really need the allowance ?' Retired person says yes.
  • The journalist asked the UK Govt. was he entitled. They say No because he left UK before a certain age. (let us presume they know the rules).
  • The journalist asked a politician his opinion whether their rules were fair and the politician let out his human response that he didn't think that the UK state should be paying winter fuel supplements  for people who (were lucky enough to) have left the UK earlier than most people's retirement age.
  • The retired person was asked to voice an opinion and he reminded the politician that he still has a UK vote.

The best comment I have seen was that it, WFP, should be incorporated into the basic pensions and stop double-handling things. (NB the bad weather payment is different).

Just out of interest where was it filmed ? Prades ?

John

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Thank you for appraising me of the facts BaF.

I do however stand by my comment (and indeed emphasise it now that I know they have to go at 55) about making adequate provision if you do choose to give up working at 55 and retire, be that to France or anywhere which is pretty well what WB is saying.

I am 58. By taking an early pension (money purchase unfortunately) plus topping up from savings etc. I could probably retire tomorrow however to do so would leave me in a position where I would not have what I consider an adequate and comfortable safety margin. For me that is a minimum net income of 25% in excess of the nominal annual cost of living without recourse to savings so I work on until such time as I can realise that goal. Even if it meant working to 70 I would certainly never willingly put myself in position where £400/pa could become the difference between eat or heat [:'(]

[quote user="Bannon"]I have this vision of some poor soul scrunching up his flat cap and asking for a handout.

Means testing? What and appalling thought - to be means tested for

entitlement from a pot of funds that you've paid in to. What next,

means tested for your state pension, your bus pass, care for the

elderly? Hold on, that last one is already being done![/quote]Appalling or not it's the way of it and I am absolutely certain that proposals for means testing of state pensions are sitting in someones pending tray at this very moment [:@]

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Working till 70, Erns?  My OH worked till he was 75 and, since he has been here in the last year, he's done a couple of projects.

Might have to work till he drops at the rate things are going.  Still, he counts himself fortunate that he's still able to work should he need to do so.

 

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It was filmed outside the Palace Bar in Quillan, the walking through the vineyards bit I know not where.

Not everyone but quite a lot of people who work in the police, teaching, fire brigade etc opt to take retirement at 25 years service. The fire brigade have moved away from final salary pensions now (it was too expensive for the government), my brother in law, ex deputy station officer, was one of the last to get that type of pension three years ago (forty something weeks out of 52 of the average of his last two or three years salary I can't remember exactly). This may be a reason why the chap left when he did.

Now we all know the rules about moving here and registering for tax etc. If this guy is really hard up and has done everything properly in France, registered for tax etc (he won't of course pay any tax in France but he must register) then there is a strong possibility he can be means tested and receive a fuel allowance here.

The thing is each persons situation is different but I do know of at least one or two in the group filmed play both ends towards the middle and now they have lost out and have the cheek to whinge about it. Surprisingly, or not, I know other people were invited to the filming but never went, I was speaking to one such couple only this morning. Their attitude, and I know they could do with the money, is that its tough but there you go, thats life, you get over it and move on.

Don't forget this guy will also be getting his old age pension in what, 3 years time.

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[quote user="Quillan"]

Don't forget this guy will also be getting his old age pension in what, 3 years time.

[/quote]

So if he is not yet of UK state retirement age, why should he expect to get a UK state retirement benefit anyway, particularly as a non-resident?

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[quote user="sweet 17"]Working till 70, Erns?  My OH worked till he was 75 and, since he has been here in the last year, he's done a couple of projects.

Might have to work till he drops at the rate things are going.  Still, he counts himself fortunate that he's still able to work should he need to do so.[/quote]It's not in my plan sweets but a man has to do what a man has to do [blink]

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[quote user="Will"][quote user="Quillan"]

Don't forget this guy will also be getting his old age pension in what, 3 years time.

[/quote]

So if he is not yet of UK state retirement age, why should he expect to get a UK state retirement benefit anyway, particularly as a non-resident?

[/quote]

Will he get a full pension ? Maybe he pays AVC's ?

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