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My heart goes out to these poor things


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[quote user="suein56"][quote user="flunch"]

Callie, hopefully I can make you understand how it works.  When you come here with your E121 you are placed in the same position as a French pensioner, ie you have 70% cover, for the remaining 30% you must take out a top-up insurance (its known as a mutuelle). [/quote]

Not quite the same as a French pensioner as they still have to pay the French equivalent of UK NI - I cannot remember the actual percentage - so we, incomers, do rather better than them as our E121s mean that we are not asked to make a further contribution to the French system, other than paying the franchises on drugs et al.

Sue

[/quote]

A person with a French pension doesn't actually pay direct Social Security charges, but pays

La CSG : 6,6 %

La CRDS : 0,5%

unless the tax level is very low.

But you are right that they pay are still paying into the system after a lifetime of contributions, whereas a UK pensioner no longer pays NI contribitions.

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[quote user="NormanH"]

A person with a French pension doesn't actually pay direct Social Security charges, but pays

La CSG : 6,6 %

La CRDS : 0,5%

unless the tax level is very low.  [/quote]

These two charges are nothing to do with health or social security but are charges towards reducing the national debt (!).

Thank you Flunch - I had no idea that the French pensioners only had 70% cover.  I believed that this was so until people reached French retirement age, and that after that they no longer needed a top up as their cover went up to 100%.

As regards medication - there have always been different rates of repayment depending on the medication.  These repayments do change - for instance homeopathic remedies now have to be paid in full whereas five years ago there was a percentage remboursement. 

Is there a difference if a UK state pensioner comes to France with a known problem that requires expensive medication?  Would they worse off living in France, ie would they have to pay more here than if they had stayed in the UK ?

I had no idea that health and pensions was so complicated........ but when we came to live here, retirement was far out of sight.  Now it's looming closer.......

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In very simple terms and with due deference to the rule writers. I see no reason why I cannot expect the UK Government to provide me with the same standard of healthcare as I might expect in the UK Anywhere in the EEC. Not a percentage of cover (I don't after all get the option of paying a percentage of premium)

I pay about £100 a week in National Insurance, have worked hard all my life and by virtue of hard work and saving have managed to afford a little bolt hole in France. I do not expect my French neighbours to subsidise my Health care I do expect the UK Government to get its finger out and do the right thing.

NI Pays pensions etc. as a child of the 60s baby boom I hold out little hope of ever seeing a State pension...The UK will be so heavily indebted and there will be so many old folks doddering about that the pensions system as we know it would be on its knees.

I understand that drugs costs may differ or a French Physician may be free to prescribe medicines not provided by the NHS (Again the NHS drug approvals system no more than a cynical attempt to avoid costlier treatments)

I think that an additional Private Insurance policy for the cost differentials in these respects is appropriate.

In summary the NHS shouldn't pay more for my basic health care than is neccessary, it may be that treatment in the Hebrides may be more expensive than being treated in France. Any enhanced cost of European treatments should I wish to undertake them I should have Private Insurance for. I believe basic health care provision is our right regardless of where we are in Europe and that there should be no more time limitation than there would be were we UK resident.

 

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[quote user="suein56"]
Not quite the same as a French pensioner as they still have to pay the French equivalent of UK NI - I cannot remember the actual percentage - so we, incomers, do rather better than them as our E121s mean that we are not asked to make a further contribution to the French system, other than paying the franchises on drugs et al.

Sue

[/quote]

Your statement makes it sound like us Brits pay nothing in , but the UK gov pays something like 3000 for each E121 every year.

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[quote user="krusty"]

[quote user="suein56"]

Not quite the same as a French pensioner as they still have to pay the French equivalent of UK NI - I cannot remember the actual percentage - so we, incomers, do rather better than them as our E121s mean that we are not asked to make a further contribution to the French system, other than paying the franchises on drugs et al.

Sue

[/quote]

Your statement makes it sound like us Brits pay nothing in , but the UK gov pays something like 3000 for each E121 every year.

[/quote]

And what does the recipient of a E121 pay towards it?

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[quote user="Benjamin"][quote user="NormanH"]And what does the recipient of a E121 pay towards it?[/quote]A lifetime's N I contributions?[/quote]

Copied from previous page on this thread:

[quote user="Clarkkent"]UK NI is used to pay (mainly) retirement

pension. NHS is payed out of general taxation. NI has virtually nothing

to do with NHS.[/quote]

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[quote user="BIG MAC"]

In very simple terms and with due deference to the rule writers. I see no reason why I cannot expect the UK Government to provide me with the same standard of healthcare as I might expect in the UK Anywhere in the EEC. Not a percentage of cover (I don't after all get the option of paying a percentage of premium)

I pay about £100 a week in National Insurance, have worked hard all my life and by virtue of hard work and saving have managed to afford a little bolt hole in France. I do not expect my French neighbours to subsidise my Health care I do expect the UK Government to get its finger out and do the right thing.

NI Pays pensions etc. as a child of the 60s baby boom I hold out little hope of ever seeing a State pension...The UK will be so heavily indebted and there will be so many old folks doddering about that the pensions system as we know it would be on its knees.

I understand that drugs costs may differ or a French Physician may be free to prescribe medicines not provided by the NHS (Again the NHS drug approvals system no more than a cynical attempt to avoid costlier treatments)

I think that an additional Private Insurance policy for the cost differentials in these respects is appropriate.

In summary the NHS shouldn't pay more for my basic health care than is neccessary, it may be that treatment in the Hebrides may be more expensive than being treated in France. Any enhanced cost of European treatments should I wish to undertake them I should have Private Insurance for. I believe basic health care provision is our right regardless of where we are in Europe and that there should be no more time limitation than there would be were we UK resident.

[/quote]

BigMac

In your current (UK NIC paying) situation you are entitled and should receive exactly the above using an EHIC, the problem comes when you retire, early or otherwise.

Re being a baby boomer, I guess that I am only a couple of years older than you and I agree 100% with your expectation of receiving a state pension, I started putting serious money into private ones around 10 years ago before deciding that that too was throwing good monet after bad and stopped, retrospectively one of my very rare good financial decisions.

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Yes, not that long ago, there was an upper earnings limit (UEL) above  which neither employer or employee paid any NI contributions. It was not a super high limit IRC - something less than £2k per month. i.e someone on 100k a year paid NI contributions of about 2.5% of their salary whereas someone on 25k a year paid close to 10%.

The government then removed the employers limit but kept the employee limit for some years. The UEL for employees still exists and over £690 a week an employee only pays 1% of his earnings rather than the standard 11%.

So for a straightforward employee to pay over £100 a week in NI conts then they must be earning well over £200k per year.

rgds

Hagar

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[quote user="Hagar"]

So for a straightforward employee to pay over £100 a week in NI conts then they must be earning well over £200k per year.

[/quote]

If only...If only.

Something awry with your sums or our payroll, without wanting to discuss my own income in open forum I can tell you that last month I had salary deductions for Tax and NI in the order of  £1,500.00 (Rounded up) the NI element equating to approximately £100 a week.

Taking your 11% and doing some rough sums  lets say  someone has a salary of £44k (Convenient figure) this would equate to £4,840 / 52 weeks =£93.08 So a "straightforward employee" on £44k pays £93.08 Based on the figures offered. I am no expert on these matters and am fortunate to earn a little  bit more than the figures discussed. If I earned £200k PA I wouldn't trouble the NHS with my ailments.

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[quote user="BIG MAC"][quote user="Hagar"]

So for a straightforward employee to pay over £100 a week in NI conts then they must be earning well over £200k per year.

[/quote]

If only...If only.

Something awry with your sums or our payroll, ..............

[/quote]

Details are all here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/e12p4and5charts.pdf

Admittedly my 200k figure was based on 2007 rates but even taking current rates the figure is £180k a year.

The first £105 a week is free from NI

Between 195 and 770 per week is charged at 11% (i.e NI conts are £73.15 a week for a salary of £40k per annum)

On the balance of your salary you pay 1p in the pound in NI - to pay £100 a week in NI conts you must be earning an additional £2,685 per week (£26.85 *100) .

£770 + £2685 = £3,455 a week = £179 660 per annum.

You pay less/earn even more if you are contracted out of SERPS (or whatever they call it these days).

Are you sure you are not including the employer's contribution in your £100 a week ???

rgds

hagar

 

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no weeks and months transposition, no combination of employers and employees contributions just good old Gordon with his hand in me pocket I suspect it being a bonus month near year end may have contributed but I am afraid the numbers are the numbers........and I don't earn anything like £100k..alas
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[quote user="J.Rs gone native"]As a one man limited company I used to pay around 20%, from memory 9.45% employees contribution and 11.something employers contribution .... [/quote]

Then you may have been badly advised. Though your quoted % are probably correct we (in our 2 person Ltd Co) just paid a few pennies in NI, based on a salary a tad over the LEL and took the rest in dividends which did not attract NIC in those days.  James Brown and Darling Darling should have reframed the legislation by now to stop this but maybe not.

To get back to the original subject - You made your bed, you lay on it. 

John 

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"Something awry with your sums or our payroll, without wanting to discuss my own income in open forum I can tell you that last month I had salary deductions for Tax and NI in the order of  £1,500.00 (Rounded up) the NI element equating to approximately £100 a week."

You might have done.

An annual UK salary of £58,250 suffers monthly Tax and NI deductions very close to £1500. 

 

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