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Shocking Behaviour


rosienoo
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[quote user="baypond"]........

Seriously, though, rosienoo you might want to clear up at least in your own mind where you are actually living. If you have a look at:
http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1839257/ShowPost.aspx it will provide some guidance as to your actual situation.

Regards
Pickles
[/quote]

Hey Pickles, ok that's good information.

Should be 'officially' moving lock stock to France in December as I am apparently going to be made redundant.  So will do everything official with car etc. then.  However there is a rumour I could be sent to Malaysia on a project [8-)]  Confused, yes I certainly am !!  Hence my reluctance to register everything I have here because if I do end up in Malaysia I'll keep my car registered in the UK for when I travel back there for meetings.

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[quote user="Pickles"][quote user="rosienoo"][quote user="baypond"]Re the car, you can't win this one, because as I found out on this forum to my amazement, once you have registered in France, you can't legally drive it back in the UK![/quote]

Oh!! that would render my car useless in the UK then, is that right??  are you sure.[/quote]

ONLY if you are UK-resident. If you reside in France then of course you can drive your French-registered car in the UK.

[quote user="rosienoo"]Apparently there is an EEC agreement that if you are in any of the EU countries you are covered for the whole period of your insurance policy in which ever Member State your car is covered.  Even if your UK insurer says you aren't covered for longer than 3 months at one time, they are contrivening the EEC agreement.[/quote]

Be careful here: your insurer is required to provide the statutory minimum level of cover (as set out by each individual EU state) for your car in the EU, for any length of time. HOWEVER, in most cases this is generally equivalent to Third Party cover only: thus your insurance company can impose restrictions on the time out of the UK for which to is prepared to provide comprehensive cover.

Regards

Pickles

[/quote]

 

Oh ok, gotta find it, maybe I didn't understand it properly then.  I understand the minimum business but there is some legal requirement by the EEC.  Will try to rake it out

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Very bad news rosienoo, absolutely horrible thing to happen to you.

I think Pickles makes a very good point, that has always been my understanding.  In addition I didn't think that UK insurance generally covered prangs in car parks (off the public road) even in the UK... but I may be out of date/confused/just plain wrong.

I presume though, that this is the case in France, which is why there was no point in the driver who felt he was wronged, waiting to discuss the affair with you... maybe this explains the spleen-venting note.  That said, nothing excuses the scratching and xenophobia in the note.

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[quote user="Âme"]Very bad news rosienoo, absolutely horrible thing to happen to you.[/quote]

Thanks to Âme's posting for reminding me to get back to the starting point: I'm very sorry to read that you've been the victim of an act of criminal damage to your car, and if I were in your shoes I would be extremely annoyed. I would also take lots of pictures, dump them on a CD (print out a few as well), head down to my local Gendarmerie and make an official complaint against person or persons unknown, which IIRC is a "plaint contre X".  Make sure that it is recorded. Whether anything happens beyond that is another matter, but do your bit.

Regards

Pickles

Hell's bells - just re-read this post and had to correct "if I wee in your shoes ..." to "if I WERE in your shoes ..." Damn cheapo computer keyboard!

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[quote user="rosienoo"]

Thanks Quillan

Very helpful information and I'll look at the link you recomend.  I'm not currently a permanent resident in France as of yet as I am still living between the two countries hence my car still being registered in the UK. 

And yes I agree with you, if this person though we'd damaged their car then they should have hung around not completely totalled mine in retaliation.  It is sad that we bore the brunt of someone elses actions if the note was to believed !

[/quote]

Well, here's my tuppence worth as it's a warm afternoon and I am idly sitting by my computer.

Firstly, you don't know for sure (though some might argue it's "obvious") that the person who thought you had hit their car and the person who damaged your car is one and the same.  Perhaps, if you still have that "badly-written" note in French and reproduce it here, we'll be able to make up our minds.  Now, before you get really mad, please remember that you haven't even indicated what the contents of the note are, so I for one can't decide whether the person doing the damage is indeed "anti-English" or indeed the same person who thought you hit their car.

Secondly, although I understand your anger and disgust, I can't equate scratch marks (even severe ones) down one side of a car as having "completely totalled" it. 

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Look on the bright side though Rosienoo.  The forum has been so short of something to get steamed up about, that those who have to point out your failings to toe the legal line have already enjoyed 4 pages worth about registering your car.

Just as well da doo ron ron isn't here or else he would, even as we speak, be looking into where you declare your earnings from your gite complex. 

Just for a bit of fun what is your position on hunting?

Oh! and I see you have a 4X4.

There is a few weeks worth with that little lot.[:-))]

 

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[quote user="rosienoo"][quote user="Pickles"][quote user="rosienoo"][quote user="baypond"]Re the car, you can't win this one, because as I found out on this forum to my amazement, once you have registered in France, you can't legally drive it back in the UK![/quote]

Oh!! that would render my car useless in the UK then, is that right??  are you sure.[/quote]

ONLY if you are UK-resident. If you reside in France then of course you can drive your French-registered car in the UK.

[quote user="rosienoo"]Apparently there is an EEC agreement that if you are in any of the EU countries you are covered for the whole period of your insurance policy in which ever Member State your car is covered.  Even if your UK insurer says you aren't covered for longer than 3 months at one time, they are contrivening the EEC agreement.[/quote]

Be careful here: your insurer is required to provide the statutory minimum level of cover (as set out by each individual EU state) for your car in the EU, for any length of time. HOWEVER, in most cases this is generally equivalent to Third Party cover only: thus your insurance company can impose restrictions on the time out of the UK for which to is prepared to provide comprehensive cover.

Regards

Pickles

[/quote]

 

Oh ok, gotta find it, maybe I didn't understand it properly then.  I understand the minimum business but there is some legal requirement by the EEC.  Will try to rake it out

[/quote]

Hi Pickles

As I promised, here is the quote taken from the directive.

(17) Some insurance undertakings insert into insurance policies
clauses to the effect that the contract will be cancelled if the
vehicle remains outside the Member State of registration
for longer than a specified period. This practice is in con-
flict with the principle set out in Directive 90/232/EEC,
according to which the compulsory motor insurance
should cover, on the basis of a single premium, the entire
territory of the Community. It should therefore be speci-
fied that the insurance cover is to remain valid during the
whole term of the contract, irrespective of whether the
vehicle remains in another Member State for a particular
period, without prejudice to the obligations under Mem-
ber States’ national legislation with respect to the registra-
tion of vehicles.

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[quote user="Weedon"] Look on the bright side though Rosienoo.  The forum has been so short of something to get steamed up about, that those who have to point out your failings to toe the legal line have already enjoyed 4 pages worth about registering your car.

Just as well da doo ron ron isn't here or else he would, even as we speak, be looking into where you declare your earnings from your gite complex. 

Just for a bit of fun what is your position on hunting?

Oh! and I see you have a 4X4.

There is a few weeks worth with that little lot.[:-))][/quote]

Thanks Weedon, you've made me laugh [:D]

Yes it certainly has gotten some people stirred up.  Yes a 4x4, oh and ban hunting LOL

Gite business is owned by my other half who is registered out here [B]

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[quote user="Âme"]Very bad news rosienoo, absolutely horrible thing to happen to you.

I think Pickles makes a very good point, that has always been my understanding.  In addition I didn't think that UK insurance generally covered prangs in car parks (off the public road) even in the UK... but I may be out of date/confused/just plain wrong.

I presume though, that this is the case in France, which is why there was no point in the driver who felt he was wronged, waiting to discuss the affair with you... maybe this explains the spleen-venting note.  That said, nothing excuses the scratching and xenophobia in the note.
[/quote]

Hi Âme, yes that's our confusion.  If they thought we had damaged their car in any way, they should have stuck around and asked us.  I don't agree with this taking revenge into one's own hands.  I can't imagine that damage to their car was anything like has been done to mine.

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[quote user="rosienoo"]Apparently there is an EEC agreement that if you are in any of the EU countries you are covered for the whole period of your insurance policy in which ever Member State your car is covered.  Even if your UK insurer says you aren't covered for longer than 3 months at one time, they are contrivening the EEC agreement.[/quote]

[quote user="Pickles"]Be careful here: your insurer is required to provide the statutory minimum level of cover (as set out by each individual EU state) for your car in the EU, for any length of time. HOWEVER, in most cases this is generally equivalent to Third Party cover only: thus your insurance company can impose restrictions on the time out of the UK for which to is prepared to provide comprehensive cover.

Regards

Pickles[/quote]

[quote user="rosienoo"]Oh ok, gotta find it, maybe I didn't understand it properly then.  I understand the minimum business but there is some legal requirement by the EEC.  Will try to rake it out

[/quote]

[quote user="rosienoo"]Hi Pickles

As I promised, here is the quote taken from the directive.

(17) Some insurance undertakings insert into insurance policies clauses to the effect that the contract will be cancelled if the vehicle remains outside the Member State of registration for longer than a specified period. This practice is in conflict with the principle set out in Directive 90/232/EEC, according to which the compulsory motor insurance should cover, on the basis of a single premium, the entire

territory of the Community. It should therefore be specified that the insurance cover is to remain valid during the whole term of the contract, irrespective of whether the vehicle remains in another Member State for a particular period, without prejudice to the obligations under Member States’ national legislation with respect to the registration of vehicles.[/quote]

Yes, but what this is saying is only that if your car is outside (eg) the UK for (eg) 3 months then that on its own cannot be used as a reason to cancel the contract, even if there is a term to cancel the contract on those ground in the policy. It does NOT mean that you will be covered comprehensively beyond the term that is written in the contract. The cover provided by the insurance company will reduce to the minimum required by the law in whatever state you are in once you have exceeded the term beyond which your insurer is prepared to provide fully comprehensive cover.

So yes, you will still have cover if you exceed the contracted duration outside the UK, but it will not be comprehensive cover unless the EU state that you are in requires it. None do IIRC. Hence you would thus be down to the minimum legally required cover: third party.

Regards

Pickles

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As it seems to be today's sport to offer unsolicited advice, no doubt substituting for our friend from the Aveyron, let me add my two centimes worth. I wouldn't normally bother with such pedantry unless a direct question was actually asked.

[quote user="rosienoo"]

Gite business is owned by my other half who is registered out here [B]

[/quote]

Under French tax criteria, if your 'other half' is married to you, or you have a PACS, then by definition - as he has a registered business in France - he is French resident, and it follows that you are French tax resident too, because that's the way the system works. You are taxed jointly in France (apart from a few very specific circumstances when you are treated as individuals). However, one can be resident in more than one country, and as UK taxes couples individually you can be UK resident and other half not. This can start up all sorts of interesting discussions about in which country you should register vehicles and where you are allowed to drive them (believe me, we are in just this situation, and I know the answer, which is probably that you have nothing to worry about). Just don't mention where you should pay your social security and whether you should be affiliated to the NHS or the French health service... And as for questions of domicile rather than residence... [6]

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[quote user="Pickles"]

[quote user="rosienoo"]Hi Pickles

As I promised, here is the quote taken from the directive.

(17) Some insurance undertakings insert into insurance policies clauses to the effect that the contract will be cancelled if the vehicle remains outside the Member State of registration for longer than a specified period. This practice is in conflict with the principle set out in Directive 90/232/EEC, according to which the compulsory motor insurance should cover, on the basis of a single premium, the entire
territory of the Community. It should therefore be specified that the insurance cover is to remain valid during the whole term of the contract, irrespective of whether the vehicle remains in another Member State for a particular period, without prejudice to the obligations under Member States’ national legislation with respect to the registration of vehicles.[/quote]

Yes, but what this is saying is only that if your car is outside (eg) the UK for (eg) 3 months then that on its own cannot be used as a reason to cancel the contract, even if there is a term to cancel the contract on those ground in the policy. It does NOT mean that you will be covered comprehensively beyond the term that is written in the contract. The cover provided by the insurance company will reduce to the minimum required by the law in whatever state you are in once you have exceeded the term beyond which your insurer is prepared to provide fully comprehensive cover.

So yes, you will still have cover if you exceed the contracted duration outside the UK, but it will not be comprehensive cover unless the EU state that you are in requires it. None do IIRC. Hence you would thus be down to the minimum legally required cover: third party.

Regards

Pickles

[/quote]

Yup, but that's not what my Insurance Company told me when I was first thinking of moving out here.  They said that if I was outside the UK for more than 3 months I'd would not have ANY insurance.  This is the contravension of the directive.  They also said if I told them that I was going to be out of the country for longer than 6 months they would automatically cancel my insurance.  This seems to be something that other people have experienced too.  Again I understand that if they have agreed a policy for a year, this is another contravension of the directive.  I've read many threads on it out of interest, so it's lucky I am back in the UK more often than that.  I even said to them "so if I for example wanted to travel around europe for more than 6 months how could I ensure I was covered" and was told, travel back to the uk every 3 months, phone them, tell them and tell them you will be going again for another 3 months [8-)] 

You see my point?  Apparently they are bound by the directive although they deny they are

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I can truly sympathise with your bad experience.

We were recently in Cannes, and parked our car in the street directly outside our hotel.  The hotel was situated in a quiet residential district.

On the morning of our departure we discovered that someone had placed a lit cigarette on our wiper blade and cracked the windscreen. 

As it is a thermic windscreen, the cost of replacement was 937 euros.  Apart from the cost there was the disruption and afffect on our trip.

It really upset and disappointed us.  In our gloom, we got into a discussion with two French retired military gentlemen at an adjacent restaurant table as to why the French dislike the English so much.  It took them some time to respond, but apparently it was due to the '100 Years War' and the conflict over the American colonies!!!!  Apparently the life giving support through two world wars does not cancel this out!!

Our car has been maliciously damaged 3 times during the past 7 years of holidays in France.  We have never had our car damaged in the UK.

We notice that as soon as most Frenchmen spy our right hand drive, they then fix on the number plate.  It really attracts attention.

The French depress me with their anti Anglo Saxon attitude.

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[quote user="Jon"]

We were recently in Cannes, and parked our car in the street directly outside our hotel. 

On the morning of our departure we discovered that someone had placed a lit cigarette on our wiper blade and cracked the windscreen. 

We notice that as soon as most Frenchmen spy our right hand drive, they then fix on the number plate.  It really attracts attention.

The French depress me with their anti Anglo Saxon attitude.

[/quote]

Have you thought about flying to France and then hiring a car? Might solve the problem of the damage incidences.

Sue

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[quote user="suein56"][quote user="Jon"]

We were recently in Cannes, and parked our car in the street directly outside our hotel. 

On the morning of our departure we discovered that someone had placed a lit cigarette on our wiper blade and cracked the windscreen. 

We notice that as soon as most Frenchmen spy our right hand drive, they then fix on the number plate.  It really attracts attention.

The French depress me with their anti Anglo Saxon attitude.

[/quote]
Have you thought about flying to France and then hiring a car? Might solve the problem of the damage incidences.

Sue
[/quote]

You shouldn't have to though should you Sue?  You should be able to drive your car in any country without the fear of it being maliciously damaged.

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[quote user="Jon"]we got into a discussion with two French retired military gentlemen at an adjacent restaurant table as to why the French dislike the English so much.  It took them some time to respond, but apparently it was due to the '100 Years War' and the conflict over the American colonies!!!!  Apparently the life giving support through two world wars does not cancel this out!![/quote]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry...
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I am relatively new to France, only been sorting out my place for a year or so. In that year I have met some really weird, unpleasant, anti-English Brits and one or two indifferent French. If my 4x4 was damaged I would suspect some of the creepy Brit expats before I would consider a Native. Luckily, this forum seems to be mostly free of said weird, unpleasant anti-English Brits [:D]
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