suein56 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 On a day when children are going gleefully out and about trick or treating, the article below makes me feel sad and helpless.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/my-parents-dont-know-that-we-are-living-like-this-1812265.htmlSue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 There are lots more worse off in this world ,The Africans starving due to drought , no loans for them to get to Calais , but yes they need to be thought of.Have you never lived through poverty yourself ?Ice on the inside of your windows , wearing hand me downs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Krusty enquired;[quote]Have you never lived through poverty yourself ?Ice on the inside of your windows , wearing hand me downs ?[/quote]...it hasn't got cold enough here yet for ice on the inside of the windows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 [quote user="buelligan"]...it hasn't got cold enough here yet for ice on the inside of the windows...[/quote]Maybe not where you are , but you do not take the trouble to say where that is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 [quote user="krusty"]Have you never lived through poverty yourself ?Ice on the inside of your windows , wearing hand me downs ?[/quote]Well, yes, I have actually. I have been very poor at times; though I don't see the relevance to my post. The French police/powers-that-be are, seemingly, aware of the existence of these lone kids, but do nothing to find shelter for them - as they are supposed to do.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 [quote user="suein56"][quote user="krusty"] Have you never lived through poverty yourself ?[/quote]Well, yes, I have actually. I have been very poor at times; though I don't see the relevance to my post. [/quote]The relevance is , did you take out a loan and travel half way around the world to get out of it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobyInFrance Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I too remember the ice on the windows. My family was very poor - we never had new clothes and I fought my siblings for the 'hand me downs'. Nevertheless I didn't wish to go to 'the promised land' as an economic migrant but rather worked my a*s off to improve my situation within my own culture..without imposing on others. I already have three nephews putting their lives on the line to restore democracy in Afghanistan (two doing their second tour of duty) . If we can put the effort in to try to improve things in Afghanistan it's not much to expect the countries own inhabitants to do the same. After all it's their country not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 [quote user="krusty"] Have you never lived through poverty yourself ?Ice on the inside of your windows , wearing hand me downs ? [/quote]That was quite normal when I was a child in Lancashire in the 50s, Krusty. No central heating or double glazing meant ice on the inside of the bedrooms windows in winter and hand-me-downs were a sensible way of using up clothes in a family with several daughters. We certainly didn't think of ourselves as poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Sorry Krusty, I'm in the Corbieres. I think by many English people's standards our whole village would be considered to be living in poverty but we are very far from that. I had the luxury of choosing my situation. I could have continued "living" in the UK striving to "better myself" or whatever loony phrase one might choose for swapping your life for a mess of pottage. But I chose "poverty" with freedom. Having said all that, I consider it an absolute basic for any society (or individual) that calls itself civilised to care for those who need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Kathy it depends how you measure poor . I was talking about the same time period as you , and most people were in the same boat those days .So if you all have the same you do not feel poor.But in a family with several daughters , wearing hand me downs certainly made me feel poor .[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 ScoobyIF wrote;[quote]I too remember the ice on the windows. My family was very poor - we never had new clothes and I fought my siblings for the 'hand me downs'. Nevertheless I didn't wish to go to 'the promised land' as an economic migrant but rather worked my a*s off to improve my situation within my own culture..without imposing on others. I already have three nephews putting their lives on the line to restore democracy in Afghanistan (two doing their second tour of duty) . If we can put the effort in to try to improve things in Afghanistan it's not much to expect the countries own inhabitants to do the same. After all it's their country not ours.[/quote]Scooby, reading this, I sense that you have a lot of issues. IMHO, you need to relax a bit.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Suein56 - I agree with your post. That children live like this in the country I live in saddens me enormously (and before anyone starts it saddened me in UK too). I don't know what the rest of this lot are on, but there is no comparison between living in a slightly chilly house and wearing second hand clothes with being trafficked across the world and left to live in the streets of a foreign land. It does not matter where these children come from, ALL children should be protected and it is indeed a sad state of affairs that the authorities are aware of the situation and do little if nothing to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 [quote user="suein56"]On a day when children are going gleefully out and about trick or treating, the article below makes me feel sad and helpless.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/my-parents-dont-know-that-we-are-living-like-this-1812265.htmlSue[/quote]Lucky lad he's got it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Sad perhaps, but the families of these people and children know that getting into the UK (or most other countries) is not easy, and that the way they are doing it is illegal.Sad also, that they have paid sometimes thousands of pounds to the people traffickers (or borrowed money) when they could better use this money back home.Sad that parents can send young children elsewhere with the hope they might be better off - this is rarely so, as many well-known cases have shown where such children are ill-treated or even murdered. The UK 'care' system for children can barely cope with the UK children it is responsible for.Sad too, that they think they can will be made welcome or easily find homes or schools.Sad especially for the UK tax-payer to have to fully fund those who do make it to the UK.Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I agree with you completely Tegwini.They are illegal & economic migrants with no right to be here - they should be shipped back to send a very clear message that resorting to traffickers is just a quick way to hand your money to unscrupulous criminals. If they let them in another few thousand will rapidly queue up behind. As for the traffickers themselves - they should bring back the death penalty. The traffickers knowingly risk the lives of those they are trafficking - with many ending up dead - for money. If you want to help kids having a rough deal there are plenty in this country desperate for help. If you like the romance of helpig the starving overseas then do something really useful like support the various well / fresh water projects, vaccination programmes etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 ...how very bleak it must be, to go through life so angry and so cold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 When people resort to personal insults it suggests they lack something more constructive to say..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi BSad to go thro' life so patronising and rude. Sad too to be always right- and everyone always wrong - and not allowed their own opinion.Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Scooby wrote; [quote]I can only assume, Buelligan, that you live life with your head up your ***[/quote] and then wrote;[quote]When people resort to personal insults it suggests they lack something more constructive to say.....[/quote]But seriously, I didn't intend to insult you (and I'm sorry if I did). I actually feel rather compassionate towards you. Please accept my sincere apologies if I have offended you in any way.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Tegwini wrote;[quote]Hi BSad to go thro' life so patronising and rude. Sad too to be always right- and everyone always wrong - and not allowed their own opinion[/quote]I'm sorry Tegwini, I think I must have missed this when I was replying to Scooby. I think our "problem" may possibly lie in the way we interpret the concept of dialogue. For my part, I understand that one person posts an idea or opinion, others debate it. They listen to each other, consider the points made and are free to make rebuttals. I could be quite wrong, but it appears to me that you take any sort of comment or criticism of your postings very much to heart. This makes it difficult to reply to your posts or even tease you about your spelling, logic, sentence construction etc without offending you. Perhaps you could lay down some guidelines for me so that I can avoid upsetting you in the future? Right now though, I think this poor thread has been hi-jacked long enough.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Firstly this thread had not been 'hi-jacked' by me.And I am not sure you could "tease me for my spelling, logic, sentence construction " . With my occupation, education, training & etc. I doubt that I 'sin' in this way very often. I do however admit to errors - as a result of being a very busy person. Although, if this is your forte you could have plenty of opportunity on this forum or others. A couple of years back that was an debate between me and someone else where I was attempting to help correct grammar, spelling & etc. in a thread that someone started (not me) on how annoyed they were to see such poor English on CF Forum. That's long before you joined the forum so you don't know the background to this. And, I am not especially sensitive, and don't mind rebuttals etc BUT, some of your replies are not debates, but are personal comments eg someone - 'has issues' ' is angry and cold' and 'your pretty little head' and etc. No debate either in your patronising and superior comment regarding 'guidelines' either. Some sincerity from you would be most welcome.Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Scooby put forward suggestions for resolving a problem thus adding to the debate. The "softies" among you may not like what he says but that does not mean that he is wrong.I blame the parents for producing children that they cannot support. Compulsory sterilisation is the only answer. Discuss but only in a logical fashion.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Iceni wrote; [quote]I blame the parents for producing children that they cannot support. Compulsory sterilisation is the only answer.[/quote]It does not seem civilised or logical to make children suffer for the "sins" of the parents (and suffer they do when "decent" people choose to pass by on the other side of the street). The "sin" of producing a child without first ensuring there is (and always will be) adequate support for that child is nothing compared to the "sin" of choosing to ignore the suffering of an innocent child. I am sometimes tempted to agree with your second proposition Iceni, humans certainly do cause a great deal of the suffering on this planet. But I am an "all or nothing" type of bod, so I say, either we're all sterilised (after all, who knows what vicissitudes may endanger even our ability to provide and conform), or none of us are. For who is wise and just enough to choose those that will not be permitted to reproduce?[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 But sterilisation does exist in France but not really forced. Whilst it is not compulsory you may be told that you can have 'that' if you agree to be sterilized or else you can have 'this'. Its left for you to choose and to be fair its by slow release injection.Somebody mentioned French people going to the UK for work, have a walk around Belsize Park, you can't move for young French couples. 99% of the houses have a Canal+ dish outside, there are Bouledromes, French Cinemas, bars and even a well known French supermarket.Many young French people have gone to the UK from our village. I know three very well as they have worked for me in the past. One went as a 'nanny' only to find it was nothing short of slave labour and within a few days got a job working for Amex. She has two other sisters now working there, one as a restaurant manager in Brighton the other works in a bank HQ in Northamptonshire. All of them had employment within days and the last one left for the UK three months ago. I think the thing is they are willing to work. Two rent their respective accommodation whilst the third has bought a house as an investment. They expect to be working the UK for about 8 to 10 years and then return to France. All of them have had problems finding work in France.As to the original post, I was thinking that I wonder who had given any thought about how they would live when they got to the UK, roof over their head, food on the table etc. Of course the answer is simple, the UK tax payer. Perhaps if the UK stopped doing this then people would stop going there. I also wonder if anyone points out to them that the majority of those that do manage to arrive in the UK are actually being sent back, at the Tax payers expense of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 [quote user="Quillan"]As to the original post, I was thinking that I wonder who had given any thought about how they would live when they got to the UK, roof over their head, food on the table etc. Of course the answer is simple, the UK tax payer. [/quote]My thought as OP was to point out that a) these children do exist here in France with the knowledge of the authorities and the police and b) that little or nothing is done to shelter them as, I understand, they should be, as they are minors.Simply that, nothing moreSue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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