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[redkite]

Really buelligan? I dont thinks so. Many immigrants to the UK remain locked to their home culture - you only have to read the papers about 'forced' marriages and it is a fact that many Asian males prefer brides from home rather those girls emanciapted through British culture.

And you know what really gets up my nose? It's those Brits in France that insist on speaking French to fellow Brits! What's that all about?

[Scooby]

[quote user="buelligan"]

Scooby wrote; [quote]Having been on this forum for a number of years now (not just as Scooby) I think much of the above comments (and many threads a similar vein before them) come from this feeling that the ultimate accolade is to become as 'French' as possible.  The reality is that we will never be French.  Bad mouthing the UK, denying your roots is just part of that fallacy.  [/quote]

Odd isn't it?  If one emigrates to France it is somehow "wrong" to identify with "frenchness" or to seek to be accepted as French.  If one emigrates to Britain (or England), it is an absolute prerequisite that one denies ones former culture and attempts in every way possible to become "English"..?[:D]

[/quote]

It's perfectly consistent Buelligan.  It is not that the migrant should become 'English' rather that they

should not impose their culture, language and values upon their adopted

country. 

[redkite]

Hold it there Richard. I've had French bacon and it's rubbish - usually thin, round and salty and as far their sausages go they put more crap in them than the Brits do - the contents of which is known in the trade as slurry, hosed down from the animals carcass.... which is why I always get my bacon from our local UK butcher.

[redkite]

In a nutshell Mel and perfectly put. It sums all I've been trying to say.

[Scooby]

[quote user="redkite"]Hold it there Richard. I've had French bacon and it's rubbish - usually thin, round and salty and as far their sausages go they put more crap in them than the Brits do - the contents of which is known in the trade as slurry, hosed down from the animals carcass.... which is why I always get my bacon from our local UK butcher.[/quote]

Agreed Redkite - my first thought was that Richard could never have eaten a decent English breakfast to even think of making such a comment!!

[redkite]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8345944.stm

What a tragedy, so much for assimilation

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="Scooby"][quote user="redkite"]Hold it there Richard. I've had French bacon and it's rubbish - usually thin, round and salty and as far their sausages go they put more crap in them than the Brits do - the contents of which is known in the trade as slurry, hosed down from the animals carcass.... which is why I always get my bacon from our local UK butcher.[/quote]

Agreed Redkite - my first thought was that Richard could never have eaten a decent English breakfast to even think of making such a comment!!

[/quote]

Having not eaten English bacon and sausages in over 12 years, I have forgotten what they taste like.

So what I eat here, I am able to enjoy and treat as the same. And I love the chipolata sausages you get over here too.

As for Brits talking French to one another, I would say in public, say a bar, that is a more polite thing to do. Plus it's all about practice and really, what does it matter? Isn't it their right and their choice?

[Maricopa]

[quote user="Richard"]As for Brits talking French to one another, I would say in public, say a bar, that is a more polite thing to do. [/quote]

I remember, not too long after we moved over here, we were shopping in a supermarket and talking English to each other.  A French woman, who we didn't know, asked (in English) if we could speak French.  Yes, we said (in French), so she asked why we weren't speaking French (in French).

Whilst even now, we still speak English to each other in the supermarket, the above does back up Richard's point.

[Scooby]

I remember two french students at university always used to switch to french when they were talking (usually bitching!) about someone nearby.  As a consequence I have always felt it was rude to speak in a language that people within earshot cannot understand.  (However, I was also taught to speak in a moderate tone...and not to eavesdrop on other people's conversations.)

[buelligan]

Scooby wrote; [quote]

buelligan wrote:

Scooby wrote; Having been on this forum for a number of years now (not just as Scooby) I think much of the above comments (and many threads a similar vein before them) come from this feeling that the ultimate accolade is to become as 'French' as possible.  The reality is that we will never be French.  Bad mouthing the UK, denying your roots is just part of that fallacy.  Odd isn't it?  If one emigrates to France it is somehow "wrong" to identify with "frenchness" or to seek to be accepted as French.  If one emigrates to Britain (or England), it is an absolute prerequisite that one denies ones former culture and attempts in every way possible to become "English"..?

It's perfectly consistent Buelligan.  It is not that the migrant should become 'English' rather that they should not impose their culture, language and values upon their adopted country.  [/quote]

...ahhh!  I understand perfectly now!  You mean stuff like wanting to change the opening hours on Sundays, that kind of thing![:D]

[Scooby]

I believe the question of Sunday opening is not one that has been imposed on France by its immigrant population but rather one that has been  raised by France's own President.  In any case, my views on this particular debate are irrelevant as I am not an immigrant.

[redkite]

[quote user="Maricopa"]

[quote user="Richard"]As for Brits talking French to one another, I would say in public, say a bar, that is a more polite thing to do. [/quote]

I remember, not too long after we moved over here, we were shopping in a supermarket and talking English to each other.  A French woman, who we didn't know, asked (in English) if we could speak French.  Yes, we said (in French), so she asked why we weren't speaking French (in French).

Whilst even now, we still speak English to each other in the supermarket, the above does back up Richard's point.

[/quote]

Try telling that to an Asian in the UK or even better, a Hong King Chinese in a takeaway - he'd spit on your fried rice and hand it over with a smile on his face. But hey, the French can get away with it - a bit like us getting away from definitions of 'home'

[buelligan]

[quote]

I believe the question of Sunday opening is not one that has been imposed on France by its immigrant population but rather one that has been  raised by France's own President.  In any case, my views on this particular debate are irrelevant as I am not an immigrant.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying that for me Scooby!  So, what we are saying is; if we "adopt" a country, move there lock, stock and barrel, throw our lot in with the future of that land and consider it our "Home", then we should not be given a say in how that country or culture develops but should accept the status quo.  However, if we just go there for our hollies, we have an absolute right to influence and change the way that country runs itself...[:D]

[Scooby]

As a second home owner I have no influence on the way France is run.  Nevertheless, I am entitled to express an opinion on a forum - particularly when opinions have been openly solicited.  My comment about the relevance of my views was in response to your inference that I was an immigrant trying to subvert the french way of life.

[buelligan]

[quote] My comment about the relevance of my views was in response to your inference that I was an immigrant trying to subvert the french way of life.
[/quote]

Please excuse my maladroitness Scooby, I had no intention whatsoever of implying that.  My intention was, I suppose, to nudge you into considering that you might be operating double standards.

[Scooby]

[quote user="buelligan"]My intention was, I suppose, to nudge you into considering that you might be operating double standards.[/quote]

Which I am not.

[tegwini]

[quote user="redkite"]. 

By the way, my dictionary defines Boer as a decendant of any of the Dutch or Heguenot colonists who settled in SA. Now, I wonder where such names as The Orange Free State, Bloemfonten, Kiersdorp and Vereeniging Kopanong came from? Hmm. [/quote]

A dictionary is NOT the place to understand hundreds of years of history.

The most famous Boer president was Kruger, a German name perhaps ?  and  other names such as du Plessis, du Toit, Joubert, de Villiers, Cronje, Blignaut,  Malherbe and the famous Malan or  de Klerk are Huguenot  names.  They came from France not Holland.

Strange so many are not Dutch names - I wonder why not?  Even in the language, which I can speak, there are some 'French' sounding words, and although Afrikaans seems similar to Dutch - the Dutch would disagree.

Plenty of place names in SA that are not Dutch - quite a few are English - how about Port Elizabeth, Grahamstown, George,                        KingWilliamstown etc.  Place names  in England some are also a bit strange, some originating with the Angles, Saxons and Vikings.

It's really complicated.

And to get back on thread  the Boers had little loyalty - or interest in Holland after about the 1780s.

Tegwini

[BIG MAC]

Home is where the heart is........therefore home could be

Bheinn Bharrain on the isle of Arran on a warm Scottish August evening watching the sun dip down behind the Mull of Kintyre.

or Parkhead at full time when Celtic have defeated their near neighbours.

or a tousle haired 2 year old granddaughter and a sleepy goodnight gran-dad as she heads to bed

or 'Making progress' through nice swooping bends  motorcycling on smooth warm tarmac

or sharing dreams and sorrow

Home is many things to many people

I am a pragmatic Scot of Irish descent, living in England, fortunate to have a house in France and I define home as behind my front door wherever me and mine are.

[Scooby]

BIG MAC - loved your description of home.

[redkite]

Ditto Scooby :-)

[redkite]

[quote user="tegwini"][quote user="redkite"]. 

By the way, my dictionary defines Boer as a decendant of any of the Dutch or Heguenot colonists who settled in SA. Now, I wonder where such names as The Orange Free State, Bloemfonten, Kiersdorp and Vereeniging Kopanong came from? Hmm. [/quote]

A dictionary is NOT the place to understand hundreds of years of history.

The most famous Boer president was Kruger, a German name perhaps ?  and  other names such as du Plessis, du Toit, Joubert, de Villiers, Cronje, Blignaut,  Malherbe and the famous Malan or  de Klerk are Huguenot  names.  They came from France not Holland.

Strange so many are not Dutch names - I wonder why not?  Even in the language, which I can speak, there are some 'French' sounding words, and although Afrikaans seems similar to Dutch - the Dutch would disagree.

Plenty of place names in SA that are not Dutch - quite a few are English - how about Port Elizabeth, Grahamstown, George,                        KingWilliamstown etc.  Place names  in England some are also a bit strange, some originating with the Angles, Saxons and Vikings.

It's really complicated.

And to get back on thread  the Boers had little loyalty - or interest in Holland after about the 1780s.

Tegwini

[/quote]

And the Dutch word for farmer is?

[cooperlola]

I guess I'm just not mad about the idea that somebody who doesn't know me thinks they know what goes on in my head better than I do.

In my diary for August, when I went back to Britain for a holiday I have written (on departure from my place in France)"UK". On the date I returned I have written "Home." 

And for the record, I have cereal for breakfast here - the same brand as I had every morning when I lived in Britain.

 

[tegwini]

 And the Dutch word for farmer is? quote Red Kite

Not really relevant  to this thread. and  since this thread is about 'Home' and you tried to claim that the Boers looked to Holland as home- and they did not - home for them was their land, their farms and their families.

Since they were unlikely ever to be able to return to Europe - and the various countries they came from, they were obliged to put their loyalty and love for the country or  region they were living in and not Holland (or France, or Germany).  

Tegwini

[cooperlola]

[quote user="tegwini"] 
- home for them was their land, their farms and their families.

Tegwini

[/quote]Sounds about right.

[redkite]

Tegwini, read my post. That's not what I said. I said they had 'an attachment'. The same way as the US has 'an attachment' to the UK, and New York has 'an attachment' to the Irish.